Padilla at $11.3M/per? Just keeps getting crazier! - Page 3

gojays2007 · December 7th, 2006, 01:19 PM

a 1 whip in his worst outings would surely average out to a stellar sub 1 whip season when combined with a pitchers best outings, no?

gojays2007 · December 7th, 2006, 01:30 PM

If your "bad outings" net a 1.0 whip and your "good outings" are below 1, your overall whip is going to be below 1, surprised you didn't know that.

TrueBlueJay · December 7th, 2006, 01:59 PM

You do know that if a pitcher comes into a game up a run, then allows a walkoff 2 RBI triple to blow the save, his WHIP would be infinity for that game right? He didnt actually get an out.

Nice math there though!

TrueBlueJay · December 7th, 2006, 02:00 PM

WHIP and to a lesser extent ERA are the the most telling stats of a reliever, not saves.

Why can't you understand that?

gojays2007 · December 7th, 2006, 03:07 PM

You do know that if a pitcher comes into a game up a run, then allows a walkoff 2 RBI triple to blow the save, his WHIP would be infinity for that game right? He didnt actually get an out.

Even if it is in the top of the 9th and you retire the next three batters???? Not so much, nice math.

WHIP and to a lesser extent ERA are the the most telling stats of a reliever, not saves.

Why can't you understand that?

Because it is inaccurate. Explained already above, take a look. You need to look into stats like inherited runners stranded as well.

TrueBlueJay · December 7th, 2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Even if it is in the top of the 9th and you retire the next three batters???? Not so much, nice math.

Well duh!

Where did I suggest this wasn't the case?

Jeez, this is ridiculous. You are completely wrong on this one.

WHIP and ERA are more important than saves. And BJ Ryan's 2006 season was one of the best by a reliever.

End of story.

Bye now

gojays2007 · December 7th, 2006, 04:42 PM

You keep screaming about how I value saves where if anything I said save percentage over number of saves.

You do know that if a pitcher comes into a game up a run, then allows a walkoff 2 RBI triple to blow the save, his WHIP would be infinity for that game right? He didnt actually get an out.

Nice math there though!

Where did I ever suggest this wasn't the case?

ERA is not a tell all indicator of relief pitcher performance, whip is a pretty good one.

Jeez, this is ridiculous. You are completely wrong on this one.

End of story.

Bye now

TrueBlueJay · December 7th, 2006, 07:00 PM

LOL finally, after all this time, you agree with what I said at the beginning. WHIP is the best stat to judge a pitcher.

gojays2007 · December 7th, 2006, 09:01 PM

yup, it is one of the best, and the difference between .8 and .9 over 60-70 innings is negligible.

gojays2007 · December 7th, 2006, 09:06 PM

Who had the better season and by how much?

Ryan:
72ip, 86k, 38sv 1.37era .85whip

88ip, 70k, 57sv, 1.83era, 1.03whip

gojays2007 · December 7th, 2006, 09:19 PM

Teams with no money like Kansas City must be wondering if they can drop down to AAA. How will they ever compete in this market?

guess no AAA for them. Just got Dotel for 5M as well.

gojays2007 · December 7th, 2006, 09:25 PM

I really don't get what you are trying to do here. You started this by criticizing how much money was spent on BJ by saying it was the highest contract every awarded to a reliever.

If you followed the thread, it was showing that JP is a victim to a market that he had a hand in forming with the largest contract ever given to a closer.

If you want to debate whether or not BJ Ryan's 2006 season is one of the greatest by a reliever, fine, thats what this forum is for. But I don't think thats what you are trying to do here.

Guess you don't eh?

gojays2007 · December 7th, 2006, 09:34 PM

WHIP really is the key stats, followed closely by ERA

WHIP and to a lesser extent ERA are the the most telling stats of a reliever

Is it to a lesser extent or is it followed closely?

Where do you rank save percentage and inherited runners stranded/scored in your system?

Player A comes in with bases loaded and gives up 3 straight singles without getting an out and then is pulled. His relief k's the side.

Player B comes into a game and induces 3 groundouts.

What are Player A and B's era's?

TrueBlueJay · December 8th, 2006, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Player A comes in with bases loaded and gives up 3 straight singles without getting an out and then is pulled. His relief k's the side.

Player B comes into a game and induces 3 groundouts.

What are Player A and B's era's?

Obviously, their ERA's are both 0, and player B's WHIP is 0, while the other's is infinite for that inning.

In this case, WHIP is more important than ERA when determining the player's performance. And like I've already stated, WHIP in general is the more telling stat.

ERA is still an important stat however, as situations like you just described are few and far between. Sooner or later if you load the bases, your relief is going to give up those runs and it will affect your ERA in the long run if you keep doing it. So if you are now trying to argue that ERA is practically irrelevant because of one hypothetical situation, thats just silly.

Question for you:

Player A gives up 3 hits in 3 innings, all of them homeruns.

Player B gives up 2 hits and walks 2 batters, but doesnt allow anyone to score in 3 innings.

What is each players WHIP?

The bottom line is, each of us can think of different situations where WHIP or ERA seem to the be the more telling stat. Its not difficult. In your situation WHIP seems like a far more reliable stat, while in my situation ERA seems to tell the story more.

However, in the long run, over the course of a season, ERA and WHIP are both important stats, WHIP with a slight edge to ERA.

gojays2007 · December 8th, 2006, 07:32 AM

Who had the better season and by how much?

Ryan:
72ip, 86k, 38sv 1.37era .85whip

Thigpen:
88ip, 70k, 57sv, 1.83era, 1.03whip

Where do you rank save percentage and inherited runners stranded/scored in your system?

December 7th, 2006, 01:19 PM	#31 (permalink)
gojays2007 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 177	a 1 whip in his worst outings would surely average out to a stellar sub 1 whip season when combined with a pitchers best outings, no?

December 7th, 2006, 01:30 PM	#32 (permalink)
gojays2007 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 177	If your "bad outings" net a 1.0 whip and your "good outings" are below 1, your overall whip is going to be below 1, surprised you didn't know that.

December 7th, 2006, 01:59 PM	#33 (permalink)
TrueBlueJay Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 174	You do know that if a pitcher comes into a game up a run, then allows a walkoff 2 RBI triple to blow the save, his WHIP would be infinity for that game right? He didnt actually get an out. Nice math there though!

December 7th, 2006, 02:00 PM	#34 (permalink)
TrueBlueJay Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 174	WHIP and to a lesser extent ERA are the the most telling stats of a reliever, not saves. Why can't you understand that?

December 7th, 2006, 03:07 PM	#35 (permalink)
gojays2007 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 177	You do know that if a pitcher comes into a game up a run, then allows a walkoff 2 RBI triple to blow the save, his WHIP would be infinity for that game right? He didnt actually get an out. Even if it is in the top of the 9th and you retire the next three batters???? Not so much, nice math. WHIP and to a lesser extent ERA are the the most telling stats of a reliever, not saves. Why can't you understand that? Because it is inaccurate. Explained already above, take a look. You need to look into stats like inherited runners stranded as well.

December 7th, 2006, 04:42 PM	#37 (permalink)
gojays2007 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 177	You keep screaming about how I value saves where if anything I said save percentage over number of saves. You do know that if a pitcher comes into a game up a run, then allows a walkoff 2 RBI triple to blow the save, his WHIP would be infinity for that game right? He didnt actually get an out. Nice math there though! Where did I ever suggest this wasn't the case? ERA is not a tell all indicator of relief pitcher performance, whip is a pretty good one. Jeez, this is ridiculous. You are completely wrong on this one. End of story. Bye now

December 7th, 2006, 07:00 PM	#38 (permalink)
TrueBlueJay Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 174	LOL finally, after all this time, you agree with what I said at the beginning. WHIP is the best stat to judge a pitcher.

December 7th, 2006, 09:01 PM	#39 (permalink)
gojays2007 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 177	yup, it is one of the best, and the difference between .8 and .9 over 60-70 innings is negligible.

December 7th, 2006, 09:06 PM	#40 (permalink)
gojays2007 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 177	Who had the better season and by how much? Ryan: 72ip, 86k, 38sv 1.37era .85whip 88ip, 70k, 57sv, 1.83era, 1.03whip

December 7th, 2006, 09:19 PM	#41 (permalink)
gojays2007 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 177	Teams with no money like Kansas City must be wondering if they can drop down to AAA. How will they ever compete in this market? guess no AAA for them. Just got Dotel for 5M as well.

December 7th, 2006, 09:25 PM	#42 (permalink)
gojays2007 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 177	I really don't get what you are trying to do here. You started this by criticizing how much money was spent on BJ by saying it was the highest contract every awarded to a reliever. If you followed the thread, it was showing that JP is a victim to a market that he had a hand in forming with the largest contract ever given to a closer. If you want to debate whether or not BJ Ryan's 2006 season is one of the greatest by a reliever, fine, thats what this forum is for. But I don't think thats what you are trying to do here. Guess you don't eh?

December 7th, 2006, 09:34 PM	#43 (permalink)
gojays2007 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 177	WHIP really is the key stats, followed closely by ERA WHIP and to a lesser extent ERA are the the most telling stats of a reliever Is it to a lesser extent or is it followed closely? Where do you rank save percentage and inherited runners stranded/scored in your system? Player A comes in with bases loaded and gives up 3 straight singles without getting an out and then is pulled. His relief k's the side. Player B comes into a game and induces 3 groundouts. What are Player A and B's era's?

December 8th, 2006, 07:32 AM	#45 (permalink)
gojays2007 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 177	Who had the better season and by how much? Ryan: 72ip, 86k, 38sv 1.37era .85whip Thigpen: 88ip, 70k, 57sv, 1.83era, 1.03whip Where do you rank save percentage and inherited runners stranded/scored in your system?