Looking Ahead to 2008 - Page 2

RockintheRed · 10-13-2007, 08:03 PM

Ar-

I agree with those predictions. Chris Perez and Josh Kinney are two possibilities to make the club out of spring training, but looking at the 2008 ZiPS projections it looks like Motte has just as strong of a case to make the team too.

John Rodriguez is a goner. Jarrett Hoffpauir could take his spot.

BleacherBum593 · 10-16-2007, 01:03 PM

RockintheRed - Though Perez and Craig are top prospects, they are not yet eligible for the Rule V draft. Therefore, the Cards will not add them to the 40 man roster at this time. If they added them at this point, then did not keep them on the 25 man roster coming out of spring training, they would have to burn an option year (1 of 3 available).

AR - good thoughts. If Pomeranz has a good AFL season, do you think he would warrant a spot on the 40 man?

Since I last posted, the Cards have added Springer at 3.5 mil and Pineiro at 5.5 Mil to their 40 man for 2008. 37 players now confirmed on the 40 man roster for 2008.

The Cards have now committed $92.8 mil towards 14 players in 2008.

BleacherBum593 · 10-16-2007, 01:22 PM

Now that the interim GM, John Mozeliak, has exercised Izzy's option and resigned Springer and Pineiro, the only other free agent remaining that they have talked about resigning is David Eckstein.

From where I sit, the following is a checklist of what I think the Cards should be looking at for the 2008 season. Feel free to add your comments/suggestions:

1 - Starting pitching. Sign or trade for a #1 pitcher. Going into 2008, we have Wainwright, Looper & Pineiro set. Mulder should be back, but which Mulder will we see? Backing up Mulder's spot, I can see Thompson & Wellemeyer being considered. If not, they return to the BP, which is pretty much set at 5 positions already - Izzy, Franklin, Springer, T Johnson, Flores. Finding a "front end of the rotation" pitcher is a necessity if we are to compete in 2008. Trade would seem the best way to acquire him.
2 - sign an experienced SS (Eckstein) or trade for one (ie Renteria).
3 - backup catcher. I don't see the Cards resigning Bennett, so Stinnett may be a real possibility.
4 - Outfield seems pretty much set - Duncan, Ankiel and Edmonds with Ludwick and Schumaker as the #4 & #5 OF's. I'm thinking the Taguchi era is over.
5 - Bench - Spiezo, Ryan, Ludwick, Schumaker and backup C (to be signed).

ducksnort2 · 10-16-2007, 06:09 PM

As much as I appreciate what Eck has done for the Cards, I would rather see him at 2B and either Ryan or Yet-to-be-acquired-great-fielder-with-a-cannon-for-an-arm at SS.

AutobodyCAD · 10-17-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksnort2

As much as I appreciate what Eck has done for the Cards, I would rather see him at 2B and either Ryan or Yet-to-be-acquired-great-fielder-with-a-cannon-for-an-arm at SS.

after watching the likes of Tulowitzki and Pedroia in action, I realize we've been short-changing ourselves.

ArRedbird · 10-17-2007, 11:38 AM

Bleacher
#5 Bench: what do you do with Miles? (assuming Kennedy is recovered). I'd go with Miles as the Bench mid-IF. I figure they don't sign Eckstein. Instead, they use Ryan as the everyday SS because he's cheap and they need the money to sign / trade for starting pitching. (If you wanted to go cheap-cheap for a mid-IF, wouldn't you keep Barden and Ryan? Brrrr.... that's a bit scary!)

#3 Backup Catcher: he'd better be a pretty good one. I'm thinking that it's harder for catchers (and pitchers) to come back from knee operations than anyone else. And Yadier, since he carries a little extra weight, may have more difficulty than normal. It will depend on what shape he's in when he shows up for spring training.

#1 Starting Pitcher: Would anyone tinker with the idea of making Franklin a starter? He's signed at a good price for a 4th/5th starter. Just something to think about.

Someone commented that they paid Pineiro too much for an "average pitcher." That may be so, but the reality is that $5-7m is average today. You've got a bargain if you pay less; you overpaid if you give more.

That said -- I'm in agreement that we still need one more established starter.
Who?
No clue!

Bullpen: 7 pitchers: Wellemeyer -- to me, he's more valuable in the bullpen b/c he can come in and get a K when you need it.

So RHP in the pen for '08: Wellemeyer, Springer, Reyes (see note below) and Izzy. LHP in the pen Flores & Johnson. One more pitcher completes the bull pen: Thompson, Faulkenborg, Jiminez, Motte, Perez, or an off-season pickup.

(Note: assumes Reyes is still a Cardinal -- and that the brass evaluates him as I do -- he's best in a 1-inning mid-relief role/spot-starter.)

gotta run... more to come...

tulcard · 10-17-2007, 07:23 PM

Your "average pitcher" salary sure makes me wish I were "average"....

ducksnort2 · 10-17-2007, 09:47 PM

I just realized something. I hope Molina's knee surgery doesn't slow him down any.

That could hurt our running game.

AutobodyCAD · 10-18-2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksnort2

I just realized something. I hope Molina's knee surgery doesn't slow him down any.

That could hurt our running game.

:snicker:

ArRedbird · 10-18-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleacherBum593

AR - If Pomeranz has a good AFL season, do you think he would warrant a spot on the 40 man?

Bleacher --
Good question. Pomeranz has a shot at the 40-man. But he would have to show that his arm is completely well. If there are any questions with his arm, I wouldn't add him to the 40-man.

I wouldn't mind re-signing him to a minor league contract, however, and slotting him in as a starter at AA.

At the end of the day, I'd probably rank the 3 AFL pitchers
vying for a spot on the 40-man (or they go into free agency) this way:
Motte
McClellan
Pomeranz

One or two of those might be added.

I wish Kyle Mc had more time in the AFL to show what he can do against the better prospects. Can't fault him for getting married, tho! And he probably pitched enough innings following TJ surgery anyway.

He's already put up good numbers this year at Hi-A and AA.
In 59.2 ip, his WHIP is below 1.00,
he gave up only 10 bb,
he struck out 54,
allowed only 2 HR and 46 hits total.

Anybody else have an opinion about Pomeranz? McClellan? Motte?

ArRedbird · 10-18-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tulcard

Your "average pitcher" salary sure makes me wish I were "average"....

Tulcard --
would you agree --> the quality of pitching across the majors has diluted so much that "average" isn't even average any more?

tulcard · 10-19-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArRedbird

Tulcard --
would you agree --> the quality of pitching across the majors has diluted so much that "average" isn't even average any more?

Most definately Ar.....It just baffles me that many (fast approaching the majority!) of these hurlers command the income they receive. Even someone like Wells will end up with 7-8 million per year from some GM.

I sincerely hope we can somehow combine quality drafts with good trades for each side. I just don't see anything on the FA market at this time that would be any better than who we currently have.

10-16-2007, 01:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
BleacherBum593 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: St Louis (LF Bleachers) Posts: 1,862	RockintheRed - Though Perez and Craig are top prospects, they are not yet eligible for the Rule V draft. Therefore, the Cards will not add them to the 40 man roster at this time. If they added them at this point, then did not keep them on the 25 man roster coming out of spring training, they would have to burn an option year (1 of 3 available). AR - good thoughts. If Pomeranz has a good AFL season, do you think he would warrant a spot on the 40 man? Since I last posted, the Cards have added Springer at 3.5 mil and Pineiro at 5.5 Mil to their 40 man for 2008. 37 players now confirmed on the 40 man roster for 2008. *The Cards have now committed $92.8 mil towards 14 players in 2008.* __________________ "Build it and they will come"

10-16-2007, 01:22 PM	#18 (permalink)
BleacherBum593 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: St Louis (LF Bleachers) Posts: 1,862	Now that the interim GM, John Mozeliak, has exercised Izzy's option and resigned Springer and Pineiro, the only other free agent remaining that they have talked about resigning is David Eckstein. From where I sit, the following is a checklist of what I think the Cards should be looking at for the 2008 season. Feel free to add your comments/suggestions: 1 - Starting pitching. Sign or trade for a #1 pitcher. Going into 2008, we have Wainwright, Looper & Pineiro set. Mulder should be back, but which Mulder will we see? Backing up Mulder's spot, I can see Thompson & Wellemeyer being considered. If not, they return to the BP, which is pretty much set at 5 positions already - Izzy, Franklin, Springer, T Johnson, Flores. Finding a "front end of the rotation" pitcher is a necessity if we are to compete in 2008. Trade would seem the best way to acquire him. 2 - sign an experienced SS (Eckstein) or trade for one (ie Renteria). 3 - backup catcher. I don't see the Cards resigning Bennett, so Stinnett may be a real possibility. 4 - Outfield seems pretty much set - Duncan, Ankiel and Edmonds with Ludwick and Schumaker as the #4 & #5 OF's. I'm thinking the Taguchi era is over. 5 - Bench - Spiezo, Ryan, Ludwick, Schumaker and backup C (to be signed). __________________ "Build it and they will come"

10-17-2007, 11:38 AM	#21 (permalink)
ArRedbird Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 565	Bleacher #5 Bench: what do you do with Miles? (assuming Kennedy is recovered). I'd go with Miles as the Bench mid-IF. I figure they don't sign Eckstein. Instead, they use Ryan as the everyday SS because he's cheap and they need the money to sign / trade for starting pitching. (If you wanted to go cheap-cheap for a mid-IF, wouldn't you keep Barden and Ryan? Brrrr.... that's a bit scary!) #3 Backup Catcher: he'd better be a pretty good one. I'm thinking that it's harder for catchers (and pitchers) to come back from knee operations than anyone else. And Yadier, since he carries a little extra weight, may have more difficulty than normal. It will depend on what shape he's in when he shows up for spring training. #1 Starting Pitcher: Would anyone tinker with the idea of making Franklin a starter? He's signed at a good price for a 4th/5th starter. Just something to think about. Someone commented that they paid Pineiro too much for an "average pitcher." That may be so, but the reality is that $5-7m is average today. You've got a bargain if you pay less; you overpaid if you give more. That said -- I'm in agreement that we still need one more established starter. Who? No clue! Bullpen: 7 pitchers: Wellemeyer -- to me, he's more valuable in the bullpen b/c he can come in and get a K when you need it. So RHP in the pen for '08: Wellemeyer, Springer, Reyes (see note below) and Izzy. LHP in the pen Flores & Johnson. One more pitcher completes the bull pen: Thompson, Faulkenborg, Jiminez, Motte, Perez, or an off-season pickup. (Note: assumes Reyes is still a Cardinal -- and that the brass evaluates him as I do -- he's best in a 1-inning mid-relief role/spot-starter.) gotta run... more to come... Last edited by ArRedbird; 10-17-2007 at 11:45 AM.

10-13-2007, 08:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
RockintheRed Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 175	Ar- I agree with those predictions. Chris Perez and Josh Kinney are two possibilities to make the club out of spring training, but looking at the 2008 ZiPS projections it looks like Motte has just as strong of a case to make the team too. John Rodriguez is a goner. Jarrett Hoffpauir could take his spot.

10-16-2007, 06:09 PM	#19 (permalink)
ducksnort2 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 19	As much as I appreciate what Eck has done for the Cards, I would rather see him at 2B and either Ryan or Yet-to-be-acquired-great-fielder-with-a-cannon-for-an-arm at SS.

10-17-2007, 07:23 PM	#22 (permalink)
tulcard Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 862	Your "average pitcher" salary sure makes me wish I were "average"....

10-17-2007, 09:47 PM	#23 (permalink)
ducksnort2 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 19	I just realized something. I hope Molina's knee surgery doesn't slow him down any. That could hurt our running game.