Free Agent Thread

cowboycards · 11-21-2006, 07:51 PM

who are we going after for free agents I think we should go after a pitcher and an OF?

BleacherBum593 · 11-22-2006, 11:37 AM

Welcome to the new FanHome Cowboy.

I would think we're looking at 3 starting pitchers to go with Carp and Reyes. Then we have to fill the 2B position. OF would seem to be a lower priority to me.

Bullpen seems to be pretty well set, though I hear the Cards want to talk to Octavio Dotel, the former Astro setup man & closer.

Read on the Scout board and a very knowledgable poster (bccran) that the Cards are thinking about converting Tyler Johnson back to being a starter. His move to the bullpen back in 2003 was never really explained. In 2002, as a starter for Peoria (low A), he went 15-3, with an ERA of 2.00 in 121.1 IP. 132 K's and oppenents only batted .218 against him. The move the next summer to the BP at Palm Beach took us all by surprise.

In addition to TJ, the Cards will probably take a look at another lefty in the system as a potential starting candidate - Chris Narveson.

Another candidate for the starting rotation is Josh Hancock.

The OF for now would seem to be Duncan in LF, Edmonds in CF and Juan E in RF. Backups appear to be Spiezo in LF and J-Rod. Bigbie is gone (waivers), but may be signed to a minor league deal. So could be gone. Schumaker can do the same and has a much better arm and can cover more ground. He can be had for the major league minimum.

Backup Catcher will probably come from outside the organization, ala Bennett and Einar Diaz in the past few years.

Right now the bench seems pretty much set - Spiezo, Miles, J-Rod, Schumaker and a backup catcher (still needed).

Looks like the biggest money will be spent on rebuiding the starting pitching staff.

BleacherBum593 · 11-22-2006, 11:43 AM

Here's a link http://cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...eamPosCode=all to MLB and their Free Agent Tracker. It has a sorting capability and we can start looking at who's available pitching wise and 2B.

BleacherBum593 · 11-22-2006, 11:52 AM

Quick look at who's still available in the FA market at 2B.

Adam Kennedy (former Cards farmhand)
Ronnie Belliard
Todd Walker
Mark Loretta
Tony Graffanino
Ray Durham
Miguel Cairo

and out of the minor league FA bin -

Joe McEwing
Nick Green
Luis Ordaz
Jason Smith

After watching Aaron Miles play last year, I hope the Cards don't go with him as their first choice at 2B. And I would rather see Spiezo in a super-sub role instead of being the 2B.

My first choice for a new 2B would be to bring back Adam Kennedy. The Cards drafted him and then traded him in 2000 as part of the Kent Bottenfield for Jim Edmonds trade.

Belliard would be my 2nd choice.

cowboycards · 11-24-2006, 06:21 PM

we better get started on signing people

Kodiak · 11-24-2006, 06:51 PM

I agree with Bleach on the second base options. I'd love to have kennedy back.

That news about T. Johnson is interesting. I assume they would only do it if Rincon was healthy enough, or there were other options for the left side in the pen. Of course I'd rather have someone that is more proven as an MLB starter, but if worse came to worse he may not be bad for a role in the rotation.

Ewttexas · 11-24-2006, 07:01 PM

Hi guys. Longer post on another thread. Ewt's crystal ball says Jose Vidro at 2nd.

NianguaToad · 11-24-2006, 11:17 PM

The only problem I ever had with Adam Kennedy was how poorly suited his offensive game was to Busch II. He came up with a swing that was nearly a mirror image of Will Clark's, but didn't produce the same pop. The ball seemed to come off the bat well, but died in RF with textbook warning track power (for those who may have missed it, but were fans in the 80's...think Darrell Porter).

If Kennedy has muscled up or changed that pretty, but relatively ineffective swing, or if the new RF porch is more accessible by dimensions or currents bringing him home is one thing. On the other hand, if not those balls are just cans of corn without a runner on 3B with fewer than two outs.

Kodiak · 11-26-2006, 03:30 AM

I'm not all that concerned with having a second baseman with power. They are pretty rare (outside of Utley). What's nice about Kennedy is that he's got a lot of speed.

NianguaToad · 11-26-2006, 10:27 AM

I may have done a poor job of expressing my point; neither of us is particularly concerned with having the starting 2B have power. My concern is a 2B, or a player at any position, who all too frequently upper cuts the ball as if he has the power to reach the seats when in truth, but his skills/strength are only apt to take the ball to the warning track.

Certainly, there are times when a fly ball is in order, but on the other hand there’s nothing quite like starting off an inning with a “can of corn.”

It’s a "to thine own self" be true issue. My concern is the rookie vintage of Adam Kennedy fit the description of someone not playing within himself.

If he has attended to that issue, I suspect he would be a fine fit (provided the Cardinals can run an “end around” and beat the Blue Jays to signing him). I just want to see a player added that will actually contribute to the game plan and winning.

Kodiak · 11-26-2006, 01:08 PM

BleacherBum593 · 11-29-2006, 01:11 AM

With the signing of Kip Wells earlier today, I decided to take a look at the remaining starting pitching free agents. I broke them down into 3 groups.

Group 1:
Jason Schmidt
Barry Zito
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte

Group 2:
Gil Meche
Ted Lilly
Eric Milton
Vincente Padilla
Tom Glavine
Jeff Suppan
Greg Maddux
Chan Ho Park
Jeff Weaver

Group 3:
Tony Armas
Miguel Batista
Bruce Chen
Shawn Estes
Rick Helling
Jose Lima
Jason Marquis
Brian Moehler
Toma Ohka
Ramon Ortiz
Brad Radke
Mark Redman
Aaron Sele
John Thomson
Steve Trachsel
David Wells
Jamey Wright

Cards have enough cash available in their budget to make a bid on Schmidt or Zito. I consider them the 2 best available on the current market. In the 2nd group, we could probably pick up a pitcher here for around 7-10 mil per year. We might be better off going for 2 of the group 2 instead of 1 from Group 1.

If you have to go into Group 3, we might be better off keeping our money and looking at 1 of the kids (Narveson, Johnson, Hancock, Sosa or Hawksworth).

Kodiak · 11-29-2006, 01:42 AM

Good break down Bleach. While I agree that we may be best of in going for 2 of the group 2's....Schmidt sure would look nice to go along with Carp. I'd stay away from the following, for various reasons.

Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Eric Milton
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Chan Ho Park (he hasn't pitched well sinc 2001 when he was in the spacious park in LA. Since signing with Texas for a ridiculously large deal he has been horrid. He's a class 3 and has been since he signed that contract)
Steve Trachsel
David Wells
Jamey Wright
Jose Lima
Jason Marquis
Brad Radke (classy guy but his arm has more or less fallen off)

There are probably a few more i'd eliminate, but these are the ones I would just off the top of my head.

If Schmidt is commanding too much we may have to try for a trade. He may be hard to get if the Cubs are in the race for him as they have more money to blow. I think Zito is going to be paid a lot more than we can afford by a team like the Mets or even Yankees.

I say we sign Weaver and ??? I would like that ??? to be Schmidt BUT that would probably take us out of contention for a power bat in the outfield. If that were the case then we should try for one of the other 2nd tier players. If there is no power bat available for a "decent" price, then Walt should go after Schmidt full throttle.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents on the matter.

RTT · 11-29-2006, 01:42 AM

And my favorite player Kennedy goes to the Cards.

Time to look for another favorite new player...

BleacherBum593 · 11-29-2006, 12:26 PM

Welcome over RTT.

Keep sending those Angels over to us - Edmonds, Eckstein, Weaver, Kennedy and the new STL fan favorite - Spiezo.

11-21-2006, 07:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
cowboycards Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 38	Free Agent Thread who are we going after for free agents I think we should go after a pitcher and an OF?

11-29-2006, 01:42 AM	#14 (permalink)
RTT Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cali Posts: 148	And my favorite player Kennedy goes to the Cards. Time to look for another favorite new player... __________________ http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...titled-1-3.gif

11-22-2006, 11:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
BleacherBum593 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: St Louis (LF Bleachers) Posts: 1,903	Welcome to the new FanHome Cowboy. I would think we're looking at 3 starting pitchers to go with Carp and Reyes. Then we have to fill the 2B position. OF would seem to be a lower priority to me. Bullpen seems to be pretty well set, though I hear the Cards want to talk to Octavio Dotel, the former Astro setup man & closer. Read on the Scout board and a very knowledgable poster (bccran) that the Cards are thinking about converting Tyler Johnson back to being a starter. His move to the bullpen back in 2003 was never really explained. In 2002, as a starter for Peoria (low A), he went 15-3, with an ERA of 2.00 in 121.1 IP. 132 K's and oppenents only batted .218 against him. The move the next summer to the BP at Palm Beach took us all by surprise. In addition to TJ, the Cards will probably take a look at another lefty in the system as a potential starting candidate - Chris Narveson. Another candidate for the starting rotation is Josh Hancock. The OF for now would seem to be Duncan in LF, Edmonds in CF and Juan E in RF. Backups appear to be Spiezo in LF and J-Rod. Bigbie is gone (waivers), but may be signed to a minor league deal. So could be gone. Schumaker can do the same and has a much better arm and can cover more ground. He can be had for the major league minimum. Backup Catcher will probably come from outside the organization, ala Bennett and Einar Diaz in the past few years. Right now the bench seems pretty much set - Spiezo, Miles, J-Rod, Schumaker and a backup catcher (still needed). Looks like the biggest money will be spent on rebuiding the starting pitching staff.

11-22-2006, 11:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
BleacherBum593 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: St Louis (LF Bleachers) Posts: 1,903	Here's a link http://cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...eamPosCode=all to MLB and their Free Agent Tracker. It has a sorting capability and we can start looking at who's available pitching wise and 2B.

11-22-2006, 11:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
BleacherBum593 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: St Louis (LF Bleachers) Posts: 1,903	Quick look at who's still available in the FA market at 2B. Adam Kennedy (former Cards farmhand) Ronnie Belliard Todd Walker Mark Loretta Tony Graffanino Ray Durham Miguel Cairo and out of the minor league FA bin - Joe McEwing Nick Green Luis Ordaz Jason Smith After watching Aaron Miles play last year, I hope the Cards don't go with him as their first choice at 2B. And I would rather see Spiezo in a super-sub role instead of being the 2B. My first choice for a new 2B would be to bring back Adam Kennedy. The Cards drafted him and then traded him in 2000 as part of the Kent Bottenfield for Jim Edmonds trade. Belliard would be my 2nd choice.

11-24-2006, 06:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
cowboycards Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 38	we better get started on signing people

11-24-2006, 06:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kodiak Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 746	I agree with Bleach on the second base options. I'd love to have kennedy back. That news about T. Johnson is interesting. I assume they would only do it if Rincon was healthy enough, or there were other options for the left side in the pen. Of course I'd rather have someone that is more proven as an MLB starter, but if worse came to worse he may not be bad for a role in the rotation.

11-24-2006, 07:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ewttexas Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 720	Hi guys. Longer post on another thread. Ewt's crystal ball says Jose Vidro at 2nd.

11-24-2006, 11:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
NianguaToad Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wardsville, MO Posts: 31	The only problem I ever had with Adam Kennedy was how poorly suited his offensive game was to Busch II. He came up with a swing that was nearly a mirror image of Will Clark's, but didn't produce the same pop. The ball seemed to come off the bat well, but died in RF with textbook warning track power (for those who may have missed it, but were fans in the 80's...think Darrell Porter). If Kennedy has muscled up or changed that pretty, but relatively ineffective swing, or if the new RF porch is more accessible by dimensions or currents bringing him home is one thing. On the other hand, if not those balls are just cans of corn without a runner on 3B with fewer than two outs.

11-26-2006, 03:30 AM	#9 (permalink)
Kodiak Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 746	I'm not all that concerned with having a second baseman with power. They are pretty rare (outside of Utley). What's nice about Kennedy is that he's got a lot of speed.

11-26-2006, 10:27 AM	#10 (permalink)
NianguaToad Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wardsville, MO Posts: 31	I may have done a poor job of expressing my point; neither of us is particularly concerned with having the starting 2B have power. My concern is a 2B, or a player at any position, who all too frequently upper cuts the ball as if he has the power to reach the seats when in truth, but his skills/strength are only apt to take the ball to the warning track. Certainly, there are times when a fly ball is in order, but on the other hand there’s nothing quite like starting off an inning with a “can of corn.” It’s a "to thine own self" be true issue. My concern is the rookie vintage of Adam Kennedy fit the description of someone not playing within himself. If he has attended to that issue, I suspect he would be a fine fit (provided the Cardinals can run an “end around” and beat the Blue Jays to signing him). I just want to see a player added that will actually contribute to the game plan and winning.

11-26-2006, 01:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
Kodiak Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 746	Ahhh gotcha Toad. I agree completely. Here are some stats for comparison.... Kennedy (2006) At Bats: 356 \| Flyball: 35.4% \| Groundball: 44.4% \| Strikeout: 20.2% \| GIDP: 4.2% Edmonds (2006) -Thrown in here because Jimmy is as uppercut as they get. At Bats: 305 \| Flyball: 36.4% \| Groundball: 30.5% \| Strikeout: 33.1% \| GIDP: 3.6% Belliard (2006) At Bats: 451 \| Flyball: 34.8% \| Groundball: 47.2% \| Strikeout: 18.0% \| GIDP: 3.8% Eckstein (2006) At Bats: 395 \| Flyball: 32.7% \| Groundball: 57.0% \| Strikeout: 10.4% \| GIDP: 1.8% Miles (2006) At Bats: 347 \| Flyball: 25.9% \| Groundball: 62.0% \| Strikeout: 12.1% \| GIDP: 2.3% Jose Vidro (2006) -For you ewt :-) At Bats: 384 \| Flyball: 36.5% \| Groundball: 51.0% \| Strikeout: 12.5% \| GIDP: 4.2% Todd Walker (2006) At Bats: 361 \| Flyball: 44.6% \| Groundball: 44.9% \| Strikeout: 10.5% \| GIDP: 2.2% Ray Durham (2006) At Bats: 420 \| Flyball: 38.1% \| Groundball: 47.4% \| Strikeout: 14.5% \| GIDP: 4.0% It might be interesting to see how these ratios affect AVG and OBP for the non power hitters, but I'm too lazy right now for that sort of comparison :-)

11-29-2006, 01:11 AM	#12 (permalink)
BleacherBum593 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: St Louis (LF Bleachers) Posts: 1,903	With the signing of Kip Wells earlier today, I decided to take a look at the remaining starting pitching free agents. I broke them down into 3 groups. Group 1: Jason Schmidt Barry Zito Roger Clemens Andy Pettitte Group 2: Gil Meche Ted Lilly Eric Milton Vincente Padilla Tom Glavine Jeff Suppan Greg Maddux Chan Ho Park Jeff Weaver Group 3: Tony Armas Miguel Batista Bruce Chen Shawn Estes Rick Helling Jose Lima Jason Marquis Brian Moehler Toma Ohka Ramon Ortiz Brad Radke Mark Redman Aaron Sele John Thomson Steve Trachsel David Wells Jamey Wright Cards have enough cash available in their budget to make a bid on Schmidt or Zito. I consider them the 2 best available on the current market. In the 2nd group, we could probably pick up a pitcher here for around 7-10 mil per year. We might be better off going for 2 of the group 2 instead of 1 from Group 1. If you have to go into Group 3, we might be better off keeping our money and looking at 1 of the kids (Narveson, Johnson, Hancock, Sosa or Hawksworth).

11-29-2006, 01:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
Kodiak Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 746	Good break down Bleach. While I agree that we may be best of in going for 2 of the group 2's....Schmidt sure would look nice to go along with Carp. I'd stay away from the following, for various reasons. Roger Clemens Andy Pettitte Eric Milton Tom Glavine Greg Maddux Chan Ho Park (he hasn't pitched well sinc 2001 when he was in the spacious park in LA. Since signing with Texas for a ridiculously large deal he has been horrid. He's a class 3 and has been since he signed that contract) Steve Trachsel David Wells Jamey Wright Jose Lima Jason Marquis Brad Radke (classy guy but his arm has more or less fallen off) There are probably a few more i'd eliminate, but these are the ones I would just off the top of my head. If Schmidt is commanding too much we may have to try for a trade. He may be hard to get if the Cubs are in the race for him as they have more money to blow. I think Zito is going to be paid a lot more than we can afford by a team like the Mets or even Yankees. I say we sign Weaver and ??? I would like that ??? to be Schmidt BUT that would probably take us out of contention for a power bat in the outfield. If that were the case then we should try for one of the other 2nd tier players. If there is no power bat available for a "decent" price, then Walt should go after Schmidt full throttle. Anyway, that's my 2 cents on the matter.

11-29-2006, 12:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
BleacherBum593 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: St Louis (LF Bleachers) Posts: 1,903	Welcome over RTT. Keep sending those Angels over to us - Edmonds, Eckstein, Weaver, Kennedy and the new STL fan favorite - Spiezo.