Greatest influence on 2007 (poll)

bedir than average · 11-25-2006, 04:24 PM

Which one personel decision will have the greatest influence on the success or failure of the 2007 club. Some of these may be positives, some may be negatives, and some people will see as both.

Wiggen · 11-25-2006, 05:12 PM

Failure to retain ARod - or at least to get something of value for him - has negatively impacted this franchise for the last 5 years. That's the reason we had to spend big bucks on both Beltre and Sexson.

Slica · 11-25-2006, 05:33 PM

Between Griffy and Arod. I picked Griffey.

In hindsight, its hard to see how Griffey impacted us, because of his injury situations. Plus we had other superstars rise, like Ichiro and to a lesser extent---Bret Boone. Not to mention the emergence of the replacement, Mike Cameron.

However, the fact remains, after everything he did for the franchise...he was shown the door. I dont care about the circumstances, and I dont care about his attitude. Bottomline is, he was on the road to being one of the---if not---the best baseball player around. He was well marketed. He was one of the few things holding back the severe bias towards the east coast. Most of all, he was a hero. He was the guy who turned many fans' heads onto the Mariners. He was a big part of saving baseball in Seattle. Those fans that started getting into the team then, are starting to falter now.

That was a major blow to anyone outside diehardism. It also showed the FO cared about themselves more than our team. With Arod and Johnson departing not too long after, it was just hit after hit to those who started investing themselves into watching this team. I just dont think we've fully recovered. In part because our one 'hero' since then speaks Japanese. Boone was likely a roider. Edgar's time was coming to an end.

I dont think it was the biggest DIRECT blow to our franchise for 2007, but I think it was the first hit we took that really hurt some hopes with the franchise. Since then the FO has shown they didnt care, as the money rolled in. Once the fans said 'enough is enough'...the FO started over spending to get people back in. Its going to be a cycle until we get the next superstar who either talks more, or just talks english. Can Lopez, Clement, or Jones come through?

RotatorCuff · 11-25-2006, 05:37 PM

I think the greatest influence on the 2007 is the ownership not letting Bavasi do his job properly.

I have always liked Bavasi. He was responsible for many of the players on the 2002 Anaheim Angels World Series team and he also did an excellent job as farm director in LA.

Bavasi took over a mess in Seattle. Now he is under pressure to produce a winning season.

I figure he ultimately makes a couple of poor decisions out of desperation before the winter is over.

He needs more time to rebuild this organization but he won't be given it.

Goose · 11-26-2006, 12:43 AM

I gonna have to go with the Beltre signing. I really think that his success or failure, along with Felix, will coincide with the Mariners success and failure.

RotatorCuff · 11-26-2006, 03:05 AM

This team would certainly benefit from Beltre producing offensively.

Do we expect a repeat of his 2004 season. No, but some decent power numbers would be nice.

I think Beltre is the best third baseman in baseball but he ticks me off most of his at bats.

Is it me or does he hit a weak chopper to third on a routine basis?

bedir than average · 11-26-2006, 07:20 PM

RC, Bavasis hiring or higher up Front Office personel have had to have made a personel decision that demonstrates that they are incompotent, which decision was it?

RotatorCuff · 11-26-2006, 08:00 PM

I'm afraid I don't understand your question bedir.

bedir than average · 11-26-2006, 08:35 PM

So you feel no personel move that has been made in the last six years had a negative impact on the club?

RotatorCuff · 12-03-2006, 11:14 AM

It's a lack of moves.

Would this organization not be miles ahead of where they are today if they would have identified the fact that they were aging and started trading off veterans when they still might have gotten a decent young player in return?

Timberwolf · 12-03-2006, 02:28 PM

I went with Griffey, but I really voted for the rise of Howard Lincoln. John Ellis was an experienced corporate CEO, but he never let his own ego become a factor. Howard Lincoln alienated our signature franchise player. It has now been pretty clearly established that Griffey's desire to go to Cincinnati was his effort to prevent the eventual divorce of his parents. Building Safeco Field with the outward indentation in right center field was a message to Junior that the franchise didn't revolve around him. Howard throwing a hissy fit because Junior showed up late for a meeting was the capstone.

Howard got snookered by A-Rod who told him what he wanted to hear, so we didn't trade him and get guys who could have produce at the major league level during the dog days of 2004, 2005 and 2006. Howard kept the old gang around until they were way past their prime for marketing reasons. Howard wouldn't open up the safe at the trading deadline in 2002 when we had a chance, and now it has all fallen apart. The short term financial advantage that Safeco field revenues provided has been lost as most teams now have new parks.

Now prices are higher, our revenues are lower, and there are fewer have-not teams desperate to dump salaries.

Barnstormer7 · 12-08-2006, 01:20 AM

The A-Rod and Griffey deals are so far in the past, they no longer haunt the team.

The departure of A-Rod freed up money for Boone, Ichiro and Olerud. True, we could have gotten some players via a trade, but A-Rod did help get us to the ALCS in 2000 and helped pave the way for the 116 wins in 2001.

The biggest problem we had was holding onto guys like Wilson, Edgar and Buhner past their primes. While it may have helped merchandise sales, it didn't do much in the continued success of the franchise. We didn't give ourselves a chance to slowly work in younger players and led to some bone head moves to try and give these guys a chance at one more run at a world title. Sending out Guillen and bringing in Aurillia was just one of the dumber moves.

11-25-2006, 04:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	Greatest influence on 2007 (poll) Which one personel decision will have the greatest influence on the success or failure of the 2007 club. Some of these may be positives, some may be negatives, and some people will see as both. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

11-25-2006, 05:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
RotatorCuff Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 257	I think the greatest influence on the 2007 is the ownership not letting Bavasi do his job properly. I have always liked Bavasi. He was responsible for many of the players on the 2002 Anaheim Angels World Series team and he also did an excellent job as farm director in LA. Bavasi took over a mess in Seattle. Now he is under pressure to produce a winning season. I figure he ultimately makes a couple of poor decisions out of desperation before the winter is over. He needs more time to rebuild this organization but he won't be given it. Last edited by RotatorCuff; 12-03-2006 at 11:07 AM.

11-26-2006, 12:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
Goose Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeen,Wa Posts: 1,190	I gonna have to go with the Beltre signing. I really think that his success or failure, along with Felix, will coincide with the Mariners success and failure. __________________

11-26-2006, 03:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
RotatorCuff Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 257	This team would certainly benefit from Beltre producing offensively. Do we expect a repeat of his 2004 season. No, but some decent power numbers would be nice. I think Beltre is the best third baseman in baseball but he ticks me off most of his at bats. Is it me or does he hit a weak chopper to third on a routine basis? Last edited by RotatorCuff; 12-03-2006 at 11:11 AM.

11-26-2006, 07:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	RC, Bavasis hiring or higher up Front Office personel have had to have made a personel decision that demonstrates that they are incompotent, which decision was it? __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

11-25-2006, 05:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wiggen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,462	Failure to retain ARod - or at least to get something of value for him - has negatively impacted this franchise for the last 5 years. That's the reason we had to spend big bucks on both Beltre and Sexson.

11-25-2006, 05:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
Slica Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 168	Between Griffy and Arod. I picked Griffey. In hindsight, its hard to see how Griffey impacted us, because of his injury situations. Plus we had other superstars rise, like Ichiro and to a lesser extent---Bret Boone. Not to mention the emergence of the replacement, Mike Cameron. However, the fact remains, after everything he did for the franchise...he was shown the door. I dont care about the circumstances, and I dont care about his attitude. Bottomline is, he was on the road to being one of the---if not---the best baseball player around. He was well marketed. He was one of the few things holding back the severe bias towards the east coast. Most of all, he was a hero. He was the guy who turned many fans' heads onto the Mariners. He was a big part of saving baseball in Seattle. Those fans that started getting into the team then, are starting to falter now. That was a major blow to anyone outside diehardism. It also showed the FO cared about themselves more than our team. With Arod and Johnson departing not too long after, it was just hit after hit to those who started investing themselves into watching this team. I just dont think we've fully recovered. In part because our one 'hero' since then speaks Japanese. Boone was likely a roider. Edgar's time was coming to an end. I dont think it was the biggest DIRECT blow to our franchise for 2007, but I think it was the first hit we took that really hurt some hopes with the franchise. Since then the FO has shown they didnt care, as the money rolled in. Once the fans said 'enough is enough'...the FO started over spending to get people back in. Its going to be a cycle until we get the next superstar who either talks more, or just talks english. Can Lopez, Clement, or Jones come through?

11-26-2006, 08:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
RotatorCuff Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 257	I'm afraid I don't understand your question bedir. Last edited by RotatorCuff; 12-03-2006 at 11:11 AM.

11-26-2006, 08:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	So you feel no personel move that has been made in the last six years had a negative impact on the club? __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

12-03-2006, 11:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
RotatorCuff Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 257	It's a lack of moves. Would this organization not be miles ahead of where they are today if they would have identified the fact that they were aging and started trading off veterans when they still might have gotten a decent young player in return?

12-03-2006, 02:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
Timberwolf Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 1,668	I went with Griffey, but I really voted for the rise of Howard Lincoln. John Ellis was an experienced corporate CEO, but he never let his own ego become a factor. Howard Lincoln alienated our signature franchise player. It has now been pretty clearly established that Griffey's desire to go to Cincinnati was his effort to prevent the eventual divorce of his parents. Building Safeco Field with the outward indentation in right center field was a message to Junior that the franchise didn't revolve around him. Howard throwing a hissy fit because Junior showed up late for a meeting was the capstone. Howard got snookered by A-Rod who told him what he wanted to hear, so we didn't trade him and get guys who could have produce at the major league level during the dog days of 2004, 2005 and 2006. Howard kept the old gang around until they were way past their prime for marketing reasons. Howard wouldn't open up the safe at the trading deadline in 2002 when we had a chance, and now it has all fallen apart. The short term financial advantage that Safeco field revenues provided has been lost as most teams now have new parks. Now prices are higher, our revenues are lower, and there are fewer have-not teams desperate to dump salaries.

12-08-2006, 01:20 AM	#12 (permalink)
Barnstormer7 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 29	The A-Rod and Griffey deals are so far in the past, they no longer haunt the team. The departure of A-Rod freed up money for Boone, Ichiro and Olerud. True, we could have gotten some players via a trade, but A-Rod did help get us to the ALCS in 2000 and helped pave the way for the 116 wins in 2001. The biggest problem we had was holding onto guys like Wilson, Edgar and Buhner past their primes. While it may have helped merchandise sales, it didn't do much in the continued success of the franchise. We didn't give ourselves a chance to slowly work in younger players and led to some bone head moves to try and give these guys a chance at one more run at a world title. Sending out Guillen and bringing in Aurillia was just one of the dumber moves.