The Big Unit

Goose · 12-28-2006, 03:46 AM

This board has been a little dead over the past few days. Now I know that most of that has to do with the holidays, but lets see if we can get some discussion going anyways, shall we?

The Mariners have been mentioned recently in connection with Randy Johnson. Names that have been bandied about are Richie Sexson and George Sherrill.

Would you welcome the greatest pitcher the Mariners ever seen back? Do you think he has anything left? What do you think it would take to get him back?

Discuss.

Timberwolf · 12-28-2006, 04:37 AM

I'd welcome him back, but I don't think he has enough left to justify a major outlay in talent and cash. I think he could have another great season in him, but I think the chances of him doing it in the NL and back in Arizona are the most likely.

FED · 12-28-2006, 04:57 AM

Okay, I'll bite. In my opinion, Randy has little to nothing left in the tank. He seems to be struggling to do what he was once the best at, overpowering hitters. He is still a decent #2-3 starter who will get 10 wins for a club like the M's. Randy seems to have really changed his game though(which is a negative thing to me), and will probably only be around for one or two more seasons. So, pretty much I still think he's okay, but most of all, I just don't want to free up a spot in the Yankee's rotation for them to sign Zito. I have always had a gut feeling that Zito would be a Yankee... I hope I'm dead wrong! BTW, I have no clue what the Yankee's think Randy is worth, but I'm sure it's TOO MUCH! It's late. Now I'm exclaiming everything!

Upperdek · 12-28-2006, 07:49 AM

Randy might be worth it to a club that thinks it is one piece short of making a run for the World Series. The M's aren't anywhere near that level, and should definitely pass on making a trade for him. He is not worth it to our club any of the few prospects the Mariners have.

Wiggen · 12-28-2006, 11:23 AM

No to every question. No, I would not welcome him back and no I don't think he has anything left to offer, and no - I wouldn't give the Yankees anything for him. In fact, I'm not sure I'd take him and his attitude even if the Yankees paid us to do it.

I firmly believe he tanked his last half-season with us on purpose because he was mad at management, and I would never want him in a Seattle uniform again.

Barnstormer7 · 12-28-2006, 11:48 AM

Wiggen -

Your comments are right on. But it's been almost 10 years now. It's time to let go of the hostility. The departure of the big unit, junior and a-rod put in motion the foundation for the 2000 and 2001 runs at the world series. That's how I moved past my anger.

The Iceman Cometh · 12-28-2006, 12:17 PM

I'd take Randy back in a hearbeat.

But I'm not giving up Sexson and Sherrill to get him. It would have to be a modest package that doesn't sacrifice any major pieces.

Slica · 12-28-2006, 06:15 PM

I wouldnt want him, for three reasons:

1. Most importantly, do you actually trust the Mariners to make a trade for Randy Johnson? They think Horacio Ramirez is worth Rafeal Soriano...I could only imagine a guy with NAME RECOGNITION, and a better player even now would be worth to them. Not worth it.

2. Hes 40-some years old. He might still be effective but there was talk fo the DBacks coming up with an extension should he been traded there. I dont want a 43-44 non-Jamie Moyer pitcher here, even if its a guy with Johnson's credentials.

3. Yankees want to get rid of the contract, so that means they want us to take on the contract. No thank you. I know Sexson has been linked to them, but that defeats the whole purpose of them trading him. I would rather have Sexson right now, to be honest.

BONUS: Griffeys gets ripped into for the way he went out and such, but Johnson was worse. Anyone remember him tanking the year until he was traded? Suddenly he was great again when he moved elsewhere. I have no respect for him at all. I love Griffey, but for both of them coming back - no thank you. Let it go, that era is over. Its going to be an even worse feeling of nostalgia when they both retire.

Timberwolf · 12-28-2006, 08:28 PM

The Yankees want to get rid of Johnson's contract for luxury tax purposes. They can send a check as part of the deal, but the salary counts against the receiving team. If they are dumping him, which doesn't seem to be the case, I'd be interested, but I have zero interest in taking on even half of his salary.

Wiggen · 12-28-2006, 09:51 PM

Barnstormer - I appreciate your thoughts. You're a more forgiving man than I am. I can never forgive a ballplayer who quits on his teammates and on the fans. It evidences a lack of character that goes against everything I believe in about sports.

Thankfully, I think there are a ton of baseball reasons outside of his weak character that more than justify not signing him. He's too old, he'd cost too much in salary, and any prospects given up for him would be too much.

I cannot believe people are willing to give up what limited minor league talent we have for this has-been.

Goose · 12-28-2006, 11:06 PM

Well it's not like Johnson did crappy in 1998 with us.

160 IP
213/60 K/BB ratio
107 ERA+

Slica · 12-29-2006, 01:35 AM

Even so, those stats dont matter here in 2007

.

I vote a resounding no. And its nothing personal...like I said earlier, Griffey was my hero growing up, and I would not want him back here unless it was a good trade (like we give up little while the Reds get rid of the contract). Unfortunately the Mariners dont know the meaning of that.

Anyone who does want Johnson will enjoy watching Snelling and Soriano both make the all star game next year, as per the Ex-Mariner pattern.

JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo · 12-29-2006, 11:07 AM

Would you welcome the greatest pitcher the Mariners ever seen back?
No

Do you think he has anything left?
No

What do you think it would take to get him back?
Too much

Long live brevity!

Wiggen · 12-29-2006, 11:50 AM

Goose - you overlooked a couple of stats from 1998 - purely an accidental oversight, I'm sure.

With Seattle:

W - 9
L - 10

ERA - 4.33

With Houston

W - 10
L - 1

ERA - 1.28 (that's right, 1.28).

Perhaps you weren't a baseball fan in 1998 - or at least one that read much or watched the Mariners very often, so let me provide a personal observation. The man tanked it in Seattle in 1998. Period. End of Story. He was such an obnoxious weasel one of his own teammates beat him up in the locker room.

Nothing - nothing - excuses quitting on your teammates and the fans paying your salary.

JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo · 12-29-2006, 11:56 AM

He was such an obnoxious weasel one of his own teammates beat him up in the locker room.

David Segui, I believe.

12-28-2006, 03:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
Goose Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeen,Wa Posts: 1,190	The Big Unit This board has been a little dead over the past few days. Now I know that most of that has to do with the holidays, but lets see if we can get some discussion going anyways, shall we? The Mariners have been mentioned recently in connection with Randy Johnson. Names that have been bandied about are Richie Sexson and George Sherrill. Would you welcome the greatest pitcher the Mariners ever seen back? Do you think he has anything left? What do you think it would take to get him back? Discuss. __________________

12-28-2006, 11:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
Barnstormer7 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 29	Randy Wiggen - Your comments are right on. But it's been almost 10 years now. It's time to let go of the hostility. The departure of the big unit, junior and a-rod put in motion the foundation for the 2000 and 2001 runs at the world series. That's how I moved past my anger. __________________ You can put it on the message boarddddddddddd....Yes!

12-28-2006, 11:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
Goose Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeen,Wa Posts: 1,190	Well it's not like Johnson did crappy in 1998 with us. 160 IP 213/60 K/BB ratio 107 ERA+ __________________

12-28-2006, 04:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
Timberwolf Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 1,759	I'd welcome him back, but I don't think he has enough left to justify a major outlay in talent and cash. I think he could have another great season in him, but I think the chances of him doing it in the NL and back in Arizona are the most likely.

12-28-2006, 04:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
FED Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 11	Okay, I'll bite. In my opinion, Randy has little to nothing left in the tank. He seems to be struggling to do what he was once the best at, overpowering hitters. He is still a decent #2-3 starter who will get 10 wins for a club like the M's. Randy seems to have really changed his game though(which is a negative thing to me), and will probably only be around for one or two more seasons. So, pretty much I still think he's okay, but most of all, I just don't want to free up a spot in the Yankee's rotation for them to sign Zito. I have always had a gut feeling that Zito would be a Yankee... I hope I'm dead wrong! BTW, I have no clue what the Yankee's think Randy is worth, but I'm sure it's TOO MUCH! It's late. Now I'm exclaiming everything!

12-28-2006, 07:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Upperdek New Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1	Randy might be worth it to a club that thinks it is one piece short of making a run for the World Series. The M's aren't anywhere near that level, and should definitely pass on making a trade for him. He is not worth it to our club any of the few prospects the Mariners have.

12-28-2006, 11:23 AM	#5 (permalink)
Wiggen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,829	No to every question. No, I would not welcome him back and no I don't think he has anything left to offer, and no - I wouldn't give the Yankees anything for him. In fact, I'm not sure I'd take him and his attitude even if the Yankees paid us to do it. I firmly believe he tanked his last half-season with us on purpose because he was mad at management, and I would never want him in a Seattle uniform again.

12-28-2006, 12:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
The Iceman Cometh Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 176	I'd take Randy back in a hearbeat. But I'm not giving up Sexson and Sherrill to get him. It would have to be a modest package that doesn't sacrifice any major pieces.

12-28-2006, 06:15 PM	#8 (permalink)
Slica Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 168	I wouldnt want him, for three reasons: 1. Most importantly, do you actually trust the Mariners to make a trade for Randy Johnson? They think Horacio Ramirez is worth Rafeal Soriano...I could only imagine a guy with NAME RECOGNITION, and a better player even now would be worth to them. Not worth it. 2. Hes 40-some years old. He might still be effective but there was talk fo the DBacks coming up with an extension should he been traded there. I dont want a 43-44 non-Jamie Moyer pitcher here, even if its a guy with Johnson's credentials. 3. Yankees want to get rid of the contract, so that means they want us to take on the contract. No thank you. I know Sexson has been linked to them, but that defeats the whole purpose of them trading him. I would rather have Sexson right now, to be honest. BONUS: Griffeys gets ripped into for the way he went out and such, but Johnson was worse. Anyone remember him tanking the year until he was traded? Suddenly he was great again when he moved elsewhere. I have no respect for him at all. I love Griffey, but for both of them coming back - no thank you. Let it go, that era is over. Its going to be an even worse feeling of nostalgia when they both retire.

12-28-2006, 08:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
Timberwolf Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 1,759	The Yankees want to get rid of Johnson's contract for luxury tax purposes. They can send a check as part of the deal, but the salary counts against the receiving team. If they are dumping him, which doesn't seem to be the case, I'd be interested, but I have zero interest in taking on even half of his salary.

12-28-2006, 09:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Wiggen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,829	Barnstormer - I appreciate your thoughts. You're a more forgiving man than I am. I can never forgive a ballplayer who quits on his teammates and on the fans. It evidences a lack of character that goes against everything I believe in about sports. Thankfully, I think there are a ton of baseball reasons outside of his weak character that more than justify not signing him. He's too old, he'd cost too much in salary, and any prospects given up for him would be too much. I cannot believe people are willing to give up what limited minor league talent we have for this has-been.

12-29-2006, 01:35 AM	#12 (permalink)
Slica Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 168	Even so, those stats dont matter here in 2007 . I vote a resounding no. And its nothing personal...like I said earlier, Griffey was my hero growing up, and I would not want him back here unless it was a good trade (like we give up little while the Reds get rid of the contract). Unfortunately the Mariners dont know the meaning of that. Anyone who does want Johnson will enjoy watching Snelling and Soriano both make the all star game next year, as per the Ex-Mariner pattern.

12-29-2006, 11:07 AM	#13 (permalink)
JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 35	Would you welcome the greatest pitcher the Mariners ever seen back? No Do you think he has anything left? No What do you think it would take to get him back? Too much Long live brevity!

12-29-2006, 11:50 AM	#14 (permalink)
Wiggen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,829	Goose - you overlooked a couple of stats from 1998 - purely an accidental oversight, I'm sure. With Seattle: W - 9 L - 10 ERA - 4.33 With Houston W - 10 L - 1 ERA - 1.28 (that's right, 1.28). Perhaps you weren't a baseball fan in 1998 - or at least one that read much or watched the Mariners very often, so let me provide a personal observation. The man tanked it in Seattle in 1998. Period. End of Story. He was such an obnoxious weasel one of his own teammates beat him up in the locker room. Nothing - nothing - excuses quitting on your teammates and the fans paying your salary.

12-29-2006, 11:56 AM	#15 (permalink)
JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 35	He was such an obnoxious weasel one of his own teammates beat him up in the locker room. David Segui, I believe.