Where Do We Go From Here?

Chris · 12-07-2006, 12:43 PM

Well, this isn't the end to the offseason, but now we have NO expendable trading chips to package together.

We can't get rid of Putz, our prospects alone are unlikely to net us the valuable peices we need, and so far we have signed Guillen, traded for Horacio Ramirez, and we're still possibly going to sign John Thomson.

So, really, what do we do from here? Is this the offseason? Are we done?

Who do we sign? Who do we trade for? If we're going to make a trade, what peices do we get rid of?

I know everyone, including myself, hates when a million people put together lineups and pitching staffs in their posts, but I'm going to put them up for you guys to fill in:

1. Ichiro - CF
2. Snelling - DH/LF
3. Ibanez - LF/DH
4. Sexson - 1B
5. Beltre - 3B
6. Guillen - RF
7. Johjima - C
8. Lopez - 2B
9. Betancourt - SS

1. Felix?
2. Wasburn
3. Ramirez
4. Thomson?
5. ?

What do we do?

Ninety-nine losses sounds about right to me. Not kidding.

supersuicidedoll · 12-07-2006, 01:22 PM

Fleh.

Seriouslly, it sucks being a Mariners fan.

Sneekes · 12-07-2006, 02:35 PM

Other than trading the farm I don't think there's anything even the best GM in the world could do to make this team win 90 games.
So I would go into a pretty full-on rebuilding mode, there's no point winning 75 games in 2007 - may aswell win 65 and get a higher draft pick.

Talk to the media, explain there's a 3 year plan - that we're going to suck in 2007, should be an exciting young team in 2008, and contend in 2009
Offer Ichiro a 3 year contract - if he doesn't accept - trade him.
Trade Sexson, Ibanez, Broussard & Washburn for prospects (mainly pitching)
Sign Doug Mientkiewicz to a 1 yr (possibly with a team option of another year) contract
Sign John Thomson & Tomo Ohka to 2 yr incentive laden deals with 3rd yr team options
Sign Hollandsworth or Burnitz or some other cheap 1 year option
Should be loads of money in the coffers now so offer contract extentions to Felix, Lopez, Betancourt & Putz.
Remaining money enables us to go full tilt at the international market in 2007 & 2008

1. Reed CF
2. Snelling - LF/DH
3. Beltre - 3B
4. Guillen - RF
5. Johjima - C
6. Mientkiewicz -1B
7. Lopez - 2B
8. Betancourt - SS
9. Hollandsworth/Burnitz/Dobbs/Hunter Brown OF/DH

Jones, Clement & Lahair replace Reed, Hollandsworth etc & Mientkiewicz if/when ready

1. Felix
2. Thomson
3. Ramirez
4. Ohka
5. Baek

Morrow, Feierabend and acquired prospects move into rotation if/when ready

Yes, this team will really suck - but hopefully the Seattle public will respect the open communication from the FO - and will get excited watching the young team improve from '08 onwards.

To me this is a lot more appetizing scenario than splurging on Zito and struggling to 78 wins or whatever

This team will really struggle

The Iceman Cometh · 12-07-2006, 02:56 PM

Bavasi unquestionably made a bad move, but the sky isn't falling yet.

Amazing how quickly things change.

Goose · 12-07-2006, 03:47 PM

Here's the thing.

At the very very least, Bavasi hasn't saddled us with any contracts that will hurt us in the future(yet anyways, Zito is still out there) so we're not in that bad of shape going forward for 2008.

2007 isn't likely to be much different from 2006. We might get to .500 this year, but that'll be about it. So Bavasi and Hargrove will be gone after this season thankfully. The 2007 FA class is supposed to be stronger and with a new GM, the Mariners should be in a better position to make the team better.

2007 is gonna suck, but once we get past that, hopefully things will get better. No need to blow up the team.

Sneekes · 12-07-2006, 04:00 PM

I hope you're right.

It's not just the Soriano move though - even without that the Mariners are going to struggle to put together a contending team. Yes, a few astute additions could lead to another season flirting with .500 but personally I don't see the point in that.
I guess I'm at odds with the current owners philosophy on what makes a succesful baseball franchise.

Edited to add:
Hadn't read Goose's post before writing the above. I hope we do OK for the first month or so of 2007. I don't want everyone getting sacked before the draft - we need Bob Fontaine on that.

I think Ichiro in particular is something we've got to decide soon - there's no point keeping him all 2007 when we'll suck - and then losing him in 2008

lastexit · 12-07-2006, 05:29 PM

I think the addition of one really good pitcher makes this a good team as it stands. The M's needed two starters going into the offseason. H Ramirez, for what he's worth, is one of them. Clearly the second one will have to be better, for balance.

RotatorCuff · 12-07-2006, 05:46 PM

Chris Antonetti would be an excellent choice as Mariner GM. However he gets the job in Cleveland if Mark Shapiro bolts after this season.

Goose · 12-07-2006, 06:27 PM

Why would Shapiro bolt?

And if he does, I'll take him over Antonetti.

RotatorCuff · 12-07-2006, 06:49 PM

Why would Shapiro bolt???

Are you kidding me. Working for one of the cheapest owners in all of baseball in Larry Dolan, that's why.

Have you not seen the garbage they have signed for their pathetic bullpen this off season?

RotatorCuff · 12-07-2006, 06:50 PM

Oh and you don't want Mark Shapiro over Bavasi.

Bavasi has more brains in his azz than Shapiro has in his head.

Unfortunately it seems like Bavasi has been using those ones lately.

JasonAChurchill · 12-07-2006, 06:51 PM

And that's the same reason why Antonetti may very well be thinking he's better off "bolting" too.

I have heard rumblings that Shapiro is on the Cards very, very short list of replacements for Jocketty when he retires, presumably after 2008.

Wiggen · 12-07-2006, 08:39 PM

Sorry, but isn't it time to say that the emperor has no clothes? I'm getting the feeling that Bavasi doesn't have either a clue or a plan. We seem to bounce from one weird move to another, with almost no inkling of any kind of thought behind them.

Soriano for Ramirez was one of those "let's do something so it least it looks like we're trying" moves.

Don't you get the feeling that other GM's see Bavasi coming and they start rubbing their hands together?

RotatorCuff · 12-07-2006, 09:32 PM

I still cannot believe he just made that trade.

A stupid, stupid move.

JasonAChurchill · 12-07-2006, 10:16 PM

There is no justifying the trade of Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez.

None.

12-07-2006, 12:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Chris Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: CT Posts: 138	Where Do We Go From Here? Well, this isn't the end to the offseason, but now we have NO expendable trading chips to package together. We can't get rid of Putz, our prospects alone are unlikely to net us the valuable peices we need, and so far we have signed Guillen, traded for Horacio Ramirez, and we're still possibly going to sign John Thomson. So, really, what do we do from here? Is this the offseason? Are we done? Who do we sign? Who do we trade for? If we're going to make a trade, what peices do we get rid of? I know everyone, including myself, hates when a million people put together lineups and pitching staffs in their posts, but I'm going to put them up for you guys to fill in: 1. Ichiro - CF 2. Snelling - DH/LF 3. Ibanez - LF/DH 4. Sexson - 1B 5. Beltre - 3B 6. Guillen - RF 7. Johjima - C 8. Lopez - 2B 9. Betancourt - SS 1. Felix? 2. Wasburn 3. Ramirez 4. Thomson? 5. ? What do we do? Ninety-nine losses sounds about right to me. Not kidding.

12-07-2006, 02:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sneekes Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southport, UK Posts: 11	Other than trading the farm I don't think there's anything even the best GM in the world could do to make this team win 90 games. So I would go into a pretty full-on rebuilding mode, there's no point winning 75 games in 2007 - may aswell win 65 and get a higher draft pick. Talk to the media, explain there's a 3 year plan - that we're going to suck in 2007, should be an exciting young team in 2008, and contend in 2009 Offer Ichiro a 3 year contract - if he doesn't accept - trade him. Trade Sexson, Ibanez, Broussard & Washburn for prospects (mainly pitching) Sign Doug Mientkiewicz to a 1 yr (possibly with a team option of another year) contract Sign John Thomson & Tomo Ohka to 2 yr incentive laden deals with 3rd yr team options Sign Hollandsworth or Burnitz or some other cheap 1 year option Should be loads of money in the coffers now so offer contract extentions to Felix, Lopez, Betancourt & Putz. Remaining money enables us to go full tilt at the international market in 2007 & 2008 1. Reed CF 2. Snelling - LF/DH 3. Beltre - 3B 4. Guillen - RF 5. Johjima - C 6. Mientkiewicz -1B 7. Lopez - 2B 8. Betancourt - SS 9. Hollandsworth/Burnitz/Dobbs/Hunter Brown OF/DH Jones, Clement & Lahair replace Reed, Hollandsworth etc & Mientkiewicz if/when ready 1. Felix 2. Thomson 3. Ramirez 4. Ohka 5. Baek Morrow, Feierabend and acquired prospects move into rotation if/when ready Yes, this team will really suck - but hopefully the Seattle public will respect the open communication from the FO - and will get excited watching the young team improve from '08 onwards. To me this is a lot more appetizing scenario than splurging on Zito and struggling to 78 wins or whatever This team will really struggle

12-07-2006, 03:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
Goose Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeen,Wa Posts: 1,190	Here's the thing. At the very very least, Bavasi hasn't saddled us with any contracts that will hurt us in the future(yet anyways, Zito is still out there) so we're not in that bad of shape going forward for 2008. 2007 isn't likely to be much different from 2006. We might get to .500 this year, but that'll be about it. So Bavasi and Hargrove will be gone after this season thankfully. The 2007 FA class is supposed to be stronger and with a new GM, the Mariners should be in a better position to make the team better. 2007 is gonna suck, but once we get past that, hopefully things will get better. No need to blow up the team. __________________

12-07-2006, 04:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Sneekes Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southport, UK Posts: 11	I hope you're right. It's not just the Soriano move though - even without that the Mariners are going to struggle to put together a contending team. Yes, a few astute additions could lead to another season flirting with .500 but personally I don't see the point in that. I guess I'm at odds with the current owners philosophy on what makes a succesful baseball franchise. Edited to add: Hadn't read Goose's post before writing the above. I hope we do OK for the first month or so of 2007. I don't want everyone getting sacked before the draft - we need Bob Fontaine on that. I think Ichiro in particular is something we've got to decide soon - there's no point keeping him all 2007 when we'll suck - and then losing him in 2008 Last edited by Sneekes; 12-07-2006 at 04:04 PM.

12-07-2006, 06:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
Goose Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeen,Wa Posts: 1,190	Why would Shapiro bolt? And if he does, I'll take him over Antonetti. __________________

12-07-2006, 01:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
supersuicidedoll New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 7	Fleh. Seriouslly, it sucks being a Mariners fan.

12-07-2006, 02:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
The Iceman Cometh Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 176	Bavasi unquestionably made a bad move, but the sky isn't falling yet. Amazing how quickly things change.

12-07-2006, 05:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
lastexit Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: SF Posts: 88	I think the addition of one really good pitcher makes this a good team as it stands. The M's needed two starters going into the offseason. H Ramirez, for what he's worth, is one of them. Clearly the second one will have to be better, for balance.

12-07-2006, 05:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
RotatorCuff Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 257	Chris Antonetti would be an excellent choice as Mariner GM. However he gets the job in Cleveland if Mark Shapiro bolts after this season.

12-07-2006, 06:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
RotatorCuff Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 257	Why would Shapiro bolt??? Are you kidding me. Working for one of the cheapest owners in all of baseball in Larry Dolan, that's why. Have you not seen the garbage they have signed for their pathetic bullpen this off season?

12-07-2006, 06:50 PM	#11 (permalink)
RotatorCuff Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 257	Oh and you don't want Mark Shapiro over Bavasi. Bavasi has more brains in his azz than Shapiro has in his head. Unfortunately it seems like Bavasi has been using those ones lately. Last edited by RotatorCuff; 12-07-2006 at 09:32 PM.

12-07-2006, 06:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
JasonAChurchill Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 154	And that's the same reason why Antonetti may very well be thinking he's better off "bolting" too. I have heard rumblings that Shapiro is on the Cards very, very short list of replacements for Jocketty when he retires, presumably after 2008.

12-07-2006, 08:39 PM	#13 (permalink)
Wiggen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,825	Sorry, but isn't it time to say that the emperor has no clothes? I'm getting the feeling that Bavasi doesn't have either a clue or a plan. We seem to bounce from one weird move to another, with almost no inkling of any kind of thought behind them. Soriano for Ramirez was one of those "let's do something so it least it looks like we're trying" moves. Don't you get the feeling that other GM's see Bavasi coming and they start rubbing their hands together?

12-07-2006, 09:32 PM	#14 (permalink)
RotatorCuff Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 257	I still cannot believe he just made that trade. A stupid, stupid move.

12-07-2006, 10:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
JasonAChurchill Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 154	There is no justifying the trade of Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez. None.