Mariners Now Interested in Zito? - Page 2

Barnstormer7 · December 8th, 2006, 10:24 PM

The problem with giving up on 2007 is that the free agents are already starting to wonder whether or not the goal in Seattle is to produce a winner.

Throwing our hat in the Zito sweepstakes at least gives the illusion that we're trying to compete.

Goose · December 8th, 2006, 10:54 PM

It's not worth the trade off.

Barnstormer7 · December 9th, 2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goose

In adding Zito, Bavasi would also be saddling us with another bad contract.

We're talking about Barry Zito, right?

28 years old.

Lefty.

Ace.

Durable.

Cy Young winner.

Doesn't need to learn a new league.

At the end of a six year deal he'd be the same age that Jason Schmidt is right now.

We are going in to the season with Felix, Washburn and three ? marks.

Not worth it?

Goose · December 9th, 2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Ace.

The term your looking for is "used to be an Ace."

Quote:

Cy Young winner.

Irrelavant.

Zito peripherals have been dropping steadily over the past 3 years. It's obvious he is no long the ace pitcher he once was. The only reason he has been able to keep his ERA under 4.50 over the last few years is because of Oakland's gianormous foul territory and their good defense.

In a few years, if he keeps going at his current rate, he's not going to be that much better than our own over paid lefty.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have Barry Zito on our staff, because he IS durable, and he is lefthanded, and he would likely be better than at least 3/5th of our staff. If he were to take the same contract that Jason Schmidt got from the Dodgers, I'd give it to him. Hell I might even be willing to give him a 4th year at that price. But no way am I willing to give him the 6/$100+ or so that he's likely to recieve.

Barnstormer7 · December 9th, 2006, 10:36 PM

Wait. Let me get this straight. His career ERA is 3.55. Since 2000, his year to year ERA is 2.72, 3.49, 2.75, 3.30, 4.48, 3.86 and 3.83.

But by your logic, it should really be 4.50, but for the park that he pitches in.

Isn't Safeco a pitchers park, especially a left handed pitcher? The one thing we have is defense. Shouldn't those type of numbers continue in our park?

Barry Zito gives the team a chance to win every time he goes out there. He pitches 220 innings a year.

No contract comes with a guarantee of future results. I know we're not going to sign him, but to say with the deals that have been offered this off season, that he's a bad contract is laughable.

Goose · December 9th, 2006, 11:07 PM

I don't think those type of numbers will continue, regardless of what park he plays in. He's just not that good anymore.

I do think however, that because of Safeco and because of our defense he would be able to maintain an ERA of around 4.00-4.50 for at least a few years. And probably put up 200+ innings each year while doing so. Which is why I would not be opposed to a Schmidt like contract.

But he's not going to take that.

Barnstormer7 · December 10th, 2006, 09:39 AM

Wiggen · December 10th, 2006, 10:21 AM

Barnstormer - I think your point about at least looking like a team that is interested in improving if we sign Zito is an excellent one. The national perspective - and I'm sure one shared by most players - is that we don't care if we improve or not.

RotatorCuff · December 10th, 2006, 10:37 AM

We need a hell of a lot more than just Barry Zito to finish out of the basement in 2007.

Seriously is there any safer bet than that?

Timberwolf · December 10th, 2006, 12:39 PM

Zito is, at worst, a solid #2 pitcher. In Mariner terms he is probably more of a Jamie Moyer than a Randy Johnson. What would you pay for a 28 year old Jamie Moyer? In todays market that is at least 5 years $75M. This team has such horrible current PR that overpaying by $10M is still a good move.

Adding Zito (without making subsequent salary dumps) makes this a +.500 team and probably a second place team. Last year's team went 78-84. Felix, Yuniesky, and Jose are only going to get better. The rest of the offensive players collectively should be at least as productive as last year's team. Jose Guillen can't help but be an offensive upgrade from Crazy Carl.

Signing Zito is the Hail Mary that can save this off-season. Otherwise the team is headed in the wrong direction. With the current roster we've probably regressed to the 2005 level of 69 wins.

Yes, I do think Zito is a 15 game upgrade from the green kids and scrapyard free agents who would be getting those starts if he isn't here. I think Felix, Horacio Ramirez, and Washburn benefit from his presence on the staff.

sportznutt · December 10th, 2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

The Seattle Times reported the Mariners engaged in talks with Texas about prized young lefty John Danks, and also asked Baltimore about some of its developing arms and found themselves back in the forefront of a three-way trade rumor that would land Braves starter Tim Hudson. The Post-Intelligencer reported the Mariners aren't backing off their interest in LHP Barry Zito. A highly placed Seattle source said the club's interest in Zito was "strong; strong is a good word."

sportsline.com

Lamda · December 10th, 2006, 01:59 PM

think we could trade Ramirez back to Atlanta for Hudson? LOL

Well - atleast good we are going to do something.

Here's a thought though - who would you rather give a 6 year deal to - Zito or DM? It's growing more and more likely he winds up on the FA market in a week or two cause that is what Boras wants anyways. People say then he won't look for the 3 year deal but 6 at 15+. With a lot of people already pushing their payrolls to the limits - we'd be one of a few options available. I'd be all for signing Zito though - I don't think you break down physically or career wise at 26 or 27 - I tend to lean more towards boredom or just needing a fresh start - which would mean he'd pitch well for us the first few years and the probably drop off near the end of it.

But he would be a good sign - he'd keep his ERA around 4 the whole time, 200+ innings each year and would win 15 each year - that's a good pitcher so. In today's market - its an ok contract.

Barnstormer7 · December 10th, 2006, 02:15 PM

Are you sure that DM is going to become a free agent? I'm pretty sure he goes back to his Japanese team. Not 100% on that one though.

sidewinder1717 · December 10th, 2006, 03:46 PM

DM will not be a free agent this offseason. The reason Boston had to "post" 51m is for the exclusive rights to negotiate. If DM does not sign by Thursday he returns his current Japanese team for next season. While the terms of the agreement also differ, Japanese players have to wait 10 seasons to be a free agent compared to 6 in the MLB. I believe he will be a free agent after next season (if he doesn't sign with Boston).

The only other option for DM is if Scott Boras challanges the posting system in court. While unlikely, this has been speculated.

Barnstormer7 · December 10th, 2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamda

which would mean he'd pitch well for us the first few years and the probably drop off near the end of it.

Mariner free agent signings tend to drop off at the beginning of the contract.

December 8th, 2006, 10:24 PM	#16 (permalink)
Barnstormer7 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 29	2007 The problem with giving up on 2007 is that the free agents are already starting to wonder whether or not the goal in Seattle is to produce a winner. Throwing our hat in the Zito sweepstakes at least gives the illusion that we're trying to compete.

December 8th, 2006, 10:54 PM	#17 (permalink)
Goose Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeen,Wa Posts: 1,190	It's not worth the trade off. __________________ http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/843...idensigfd9.png

December 9th, 2006, 10:36 PM	#20 (permalink)
Barnstormer7 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 29	Zito Wait. Let me get this straight. His career ERA is 3.55. Since 2000, his year to year ERA is 2.72, 3.49, 2.75, 3.30, 4.48, 3.86 and 3.83. But by your logic, it should really be 4.50, but for the park that he pitches in. Isn't Safeco a pitchers park, especially a left handed pitcher? The one thing we have is defense. Shouldn't those type of numbers continue in our park? Barry Zito gives the team a chance to win every time he goes out there. He pitches 220 innings a year. No contract comes with a guarantee of future results. I know we're not going to sign him, but to say with the deals that have been offered this off season, that he's a bad contract is laughable. Last edited by Barnstormer7; December 9th, 2006 at 10:38 PM. Reason: typo

December 9th, 2006, 11:07 PM	#21 (permalink)
Goose Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeen,Wa Posts: 1,190	I don't think those type of numbers will continue, regardless of what park he plays in. He's just not that good anymore. I do think however, that because of Safeco and because of our defense he would be able to maintain an ERA of around 4.00-4.50 for at least a few years. And probably put up 200+ innings each year while doing so. Which is why I would not be opposed to a Schmidt like contract. But he's not going to take that. __________________ http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/843...idensigfd9.png

December 10th, 2006, 09:39 AM	#22 (permalink)
Barnstormer7 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 29	zito Fine

December 10th, 2006, 10:21 AM	#23 (permalink)
Wiggen Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,230	Barnstormer - I think your point about at least looking like a team that is interested in improving if we sign Zito is an excellent one. The national perspective - and I'm sure one shared by most players - is that we don't care if we improve or not.

December 10th, 2006, 10:37 AM	#24 (permalink)
RotatorCuff Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 257	We need a hell of a lot more than just Barry Zito to finish out of the basement in 2007. Seriously is there any safer bet than that?

December 10th, 2006, 12:39 PM	#25 (permalink)
Timberwolf Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 1,855	Zito is, at worst, a solid #2 pitcher. In Mariner terms he is probably more of a Jamie Moyer than a Randy Johnson. What would you pay for a 28 year old Jamie Moyer? In todays market that is at least 5 years $75M. This team has such horrible current PR that overpaying by $10M is still a good move. Adding Zito (without making subsequent salary dumps) makes this a +.500 team and probably a second place team. Last year's team went 78-84. Felix, Yuniesky, and Jose are only going to get better. The rest of the offensive players collectively should be at least as productive as last year's team. Jose Guillen can't help but be an offensive upgrade from Crazy Carl. Signing Zito is the Hail Mary that can save this off-season. Otherwise the team is headed in the wrong direction. With the current roster we've probably regressed to the 2005 level of 69 wins. Yes, I do think Zito is a 15 game upgrade from the green kids and scrapyard free agents who would be getting those starts if he isn't here. I think Felix, Horacio Ramirez, and Washburn benefit from his presence on the staff.

December 10th, 2006, 01:59 PM	#27 (permalink)
Lamda Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redmond Posts: 42	think we could trade Ramirez back to Atlanta for Hudson? LOL Well - atleast good we are going to do something. Here's a thought though - who would you rather give a 6 year deal to - Zito or DM? It's growing more and more likely he winds up on the FA market in a week or two cause that is what Boras wants anyways. People say then he won't look for the 3 year deal but 6 at 15+. With a lot of people already pushing their payrolls to the limits - we'd be one of a few options available. I'd be all for signing Zito though - I don't think you break down physically or career wise at 26 or 27 - I tend to lean more towards boredom or just needing a fresh start - which would mean he'd pitch well for us the first few years and the probably drop off near the end of it. But he would be a good sign - he'd keep his ERA around 4 the whole time, 200+ innings each year and would win 15 each year - that's a good pitcher so. In today's market - its an ok contract.

December 10th, 2006, 02:15 PM	#28 (permalink)
Barnstormer7 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 29	Are you sure that DM is going to become a free agent? I'm pretty sure he goes back to his Japanese team. Not 100% on that one though.

December 10th, 2006, 03:46 PM	#29 (permalink)
sidewinder1717 Rookie Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4	DM will not be a free agent this offseason. The reason Boston had to "post" 51m is for the exclusive rights to negotiate. If DM does not sign by Thursday he returns his current Japanese team for next season. While the terms of the agreement also differ, Japanese players have to wait 10 seasons to be a free agent compared to 6 in the MLB. I believe he will be a free agent after next season (if he doesn't sign with Boston). The only other option for DM is if Scott Boras challanges the posting system in court. While unlikely, this has been speculated.