Jamie vs. Horam

[kannankeril]

Well I have been encouraged to post more often, so here goes.

One of Bavasi's moves that irked me quite a bit was the Jamie Moyer trade. I respect Jamie quite a bit as a model player and hated that he was traded. Bowing down to the realities of the market, I could accept if that trade actually made the team better. It did not in my opinion and I am interested in other opinions.

Now that Bavasi chose to keep Horam, I find myself asking whether all of BB's machinations over the last 2-3 seasons for pitching can be interpreted as achieving the net result of swapping Jamie Moyer for Horacio Ramirez.

[bedir than average]

Moyer hasn't been great in his 1.5 seasons with the Phillies, about half a win below average. So is kannankeril just waxing nostalgic?

I would say NO. In one season Horacio was worth negative 3 wins.

And those prospects we got?

Baldwin was 25 in AA where he had some good peripherals, but doesn't project to be a contributor

Barb was 23 in rookie and A ball. We'll see how he makes the jump, but I don't expect much.

The swap of Moyer and Soriano for HoRam and Andrews Barb and Baldwin is a clear indictment of the current General Manager and poor planning. Altogether the Mariners would have been a 92 win team without those two corresponding moves.

[Timberwolf]

I interpreted the Moyer trade to Philadelphia as a favor to Jamie, trading him into a pennant race. If the Phillies are out of it in July and the Mariners are competitive, I would expect to see Jamie coming back here.

[kannankeril]

I hope he does, if nothing else as a member of staff, perhaps a pitching coach after he retires.

Now if the Bedard trade were to go through, we'd have a rotation of:
Bedard, Felix, Washburn, Silva, Batista

So why did we re-sign Horam? Would he be any better than all the minor leaguers that may be ready to make the jump?

[Jim Potable]

So why did we re-sign Horam? Would he be any better than all the minor leaguers that may be ready to make the jump?

Perhaps, it's the "Ready, Fire, Aim" approach.

[ballgame]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

I interpreted the Moyer trade to Philadelphia as a favor to Jamie, trading him into a pennant race. If the Phillies are out of it in July and the Mariners are competitive, I would expect to see Jamie coming back here.

I saw it that way too, though I wouldn't expect him back.

would be nice to see him end his career here, but I'm sure Moyer sees it as he's ending his career with his hometown team the Phillies

[kannankeril]

If my memory serves me right, Horacio Ramirez came to the Mariners in exchange for Rafael Soriano.

Ironically, Horam will now be fighting to grab a spot in the Mariner Relief Corp. Another black mark for the Bavasi regime.

Do we have an analysis of all the moves made by BB, some sort of scorecard in a previous thread or some online article? I would like to check if I am picking unfairly on him.

[Jim Potable]

Your memory is correct, Kannan. I believe one major issue with HoRam was his health -- hardly dependable for 100 innings -- sort of hit and miss, mostly miss. He can throw some of the time, but very rarely (if ever) pitch.

At least, we should expect a more consistent starter in Bedard. Maybe not 200 innings but close to it, and a pitcher who can pitch.

As for the Bavasi scorecard... when you mentioned it I recalled this one from February 2006. And this Seattle Times article from July 2007:

For starters, don't look for the Mariners to be giving up their No. 1 prospect, Adam Jones, in a go-for-broke blockbuster. It's far more likely that Jones will find himself in the Mariners' outfield down the stretch.

***

"It's real uncomfortable," Bavasi said of weighing the chance that dealt prospects could blossom into stars with their new teams. "But it's part of the deal. It's part of the game. If you want to win, that's the price."

#1: True, and it happened. Jones was with us down the stretch.

#2: True, uncomfortable. But at what price?

I guess we're asking what the price of this is in the end.

I'm sure someone somewhere will write up a new Bavasi Report Card or whatever. Particularly following this pricey deal -- which we may not honestly scorn (understand the price of) for another year... if we're lucky. Two or three or four years from now... we may not appreciate it.

Here's to hoping.

[kannankeril]

The first report card was exactly what I was looking for though a bit dated.

If anything, I would think BB's current grade would be a lot worse, if the time since that report were also accounted for.