Again Again

[Emmanuel]

I think people are seriously overrating this team, and it's the same story I have heard since Larry Bowa's 2nd season. There are still some GLARING weaknesses on this team and i still think this team is behind the Mets in terms of talents.....

Weakness list-
1) Outfield, maybe the worst in baseball? Patt Burrell was sat down due to inproductivity and he has been a really sour attitude in the locker room. He needs to produce and he needs to be worth what he is getting paided, but that hasn't happened yet. He is a terrible clutch hitter and he seems to be angry that people expect him to do better. Arron Rowand is a terrible player. He had a nice year in Chicago but does anyone else realize that he hit 260 with only 12 homers? For a starting Center fielder that is pathetic..... Vitorino maybe the best player in this outfield, but who knows what he is going to give u. I am projecting numbers around 280 with 15 homers. If he gives you that your lucky..... but this is NOT a championship outfield

2) 3rd base, I don't think Wes Helms is an everyday player and I don't like the idea of platooning any position. I think every team in the division has a better 3rd basemen than we do. I would have loved to get Blalock......

3) Back of the bullpen, The most confidence player in the penn is GEOFF GEARY, this is why I am worried, I have NO faith in Ryan Madison. I have faith that Tom Gordon will be productive til he gets injured. and I have faith that Antonio Alfoncesca will be this years Ryan Franklin. I would have like Linebrock (?). I would have liked Octavier Dorel, but there needs to be a move to sure up the pen.

I have some other concerns about how this lineups functions as a whole. There is still no solid option at leadoff or #5. I think puttin Jimmy Rollins at 5 would be a horrid idea.... I think Vitorino and Rollins are both #2 hitters. I like Utley at 3 and Howard at 4..... I don't know what Carlos Ruiz will give u over a full season......I don't know how Jamie Moyer is going to pitch in this park for a full year. He is a flyball picture and flyballs in this park normally end up in the first row....Adam Eaton was a horrible signing. He is never healthy and he has a BAD history in Philadelphia....

I don't see how people are picking this team over the Mets.... I think the Phils will have a tough time in a MUCH improved NL East

[all4phillysportsfan]

Hey Emmanuel, I do agree with you to a certain extent. I think if the Phillies can trade Aaron Rowand for Scott Linebrink, move Victorino in center which is where he should be, and then trade Jon Lieber for an outfielder with some pop, then I think you have an improved outfield. The Phillies are gonna score runs, no question about it. Last season when they were contending down the stretch, we basically had the same outfield as we have now. I was not happy about Conine being traded, but we'll see how Jayson Werth and Karim Garica do. I think the bulllpen is a concern. Dotel got way too much money from the Royals, plus he'll get the chance to close there. I think we need to improve the bullpen, and we'll see how our OF shakes out, as I think they will make another 2 or 3 moves before opening day.

[fire_bettman]

I have NO faith in Ryan Madison

i had some faith in him as a relief pitcher until i saw him interviewed a few days ago and he seamed to be miffed about not starting. he cant be serious

I was not happy about Conine being traded

i agree this was a bone headed move. maybe he asked to be moved ?????

[all4phillysportsfan]

I don't think Conine asked to be traded. After they signed Jayson Werth, Gillick figured Conine wouldn't get as much playing time. Jeez, what the heck, atleast have a right handed bat with some pop coming off the bench. You can play him at first base, whenever Howard needs a rest. He's probably even a better 3rd baseman than Wes Helms or Abe Nunez.

[EaglesFan]

Originally Posted by Emmanuel

I think people are seriously overrating this team, and it's the same story I have heard since Larry Bowa's 2nd season. There are still some GLARING weaknesses on this team and i still think this team is behind the Mets in terms of talents.....

Weakness list-
1) Outfield, maybe the worst in baseball? Patt Burrell was sat down due to inproductivity and he has been a really sour attitude in the locker room. He needs to produce and he needs to be worth what he is getting paided, but that hasn't happened yet. He is a terrible clutch hitter and he seems to be angry that people expect him to do better. Arron Rowand is a terrible player. He had a nice year in Chicago but does anyone else realize that he hit 260 with only 12 homers? For a starting Center fielder that is pathetic..... Vitorino maybe the best player in this outfield, but who knows what he is going to give u. I am projecting numbers around 280 with 15 homers. If he gives you that your lucky..... but this is NOT a championship outfield

2) 3rd base, I don't think Wes Helms is an everyday player and I don't like the idea of platooning any position. I think every team in the division has a better 3rd basemen than we do. I would have loved to get Blalock......

3) Back of the bullpen, The most confidence player in the penn is GEOFF GEARY, this is why I am worried, I have NO faith in Ryan Madison. I have faith that Tom Gordon will be productive til he gets injured. and I have faith that Antonio Alfoncesca will be this years Ryan Franklin. I would have like Linebrock (?). I would have liked Octavier Dorel, but there needs to be a move to sure up the pen.

I have some other concerns about how this lineups functions as a whole. There is still no solid option at leadoff or #5. I think puttin Jimmy Rollins at 5 would be a horrid idea.... I think Vitorino and Rollins are both #2 hitters. I like Utley at 3 and Howard at 4..... I don't know what Carlos Ruiz will give u over a full season......I don't know how Jamie Moyer is going to pitch in this park for a full year. He is a flyball picture and flyballs in this park normally end up in the first row....Adam Eaton was a horrible signing. He is never healthy and he has a BAD history in Philadelphia....

I don't see how people are picking this team over the Mets.... I think the Phils will have a tough time in a MUCH improved NL East

Rowand only played 2/3 of the year because of injuries. You're also ignoring his defense, which is his strong suit and at a premium since he has to cover-up for Burrell in LF.

Madson had a bad year, but his career numbers as a reliever at least make me hope he'll improve. As for Eaton, I won't complain if the No. 4 starter has a 4.40 ERA. I'm not sure what you mean by his bad history in Philly, I don't think he's ever pitched here before. Link

I agree with everything else for the most part. The big difference from 2002 is the change in GM. Ed Wade was scared to make a big change mid-season to try to jump-start a team. I don't have the concern with Gillick.

[all4phillysportsfan]

Eaton was dealt as the prospect in the deal to get Andy Ashby after the 1999season. I agree Eagles fan, if Eaton has a 4.40 Era, and wins 10-15 games, I'd be fine with that. Gillick is much smarter than Ed Wade ever was. The only good thing about Burrell's defense is he has a strong arm. Obviously he can't run.

[fire_bettman]

I don't think Conine asked to be traded. After they signed Jayson Werth, Gillick figured Conine wouldn't get as much playing time. Jeez, what the heck, atleast have a right handed bat with some pop coming off the bench.

id take conine any day over werth on a team that is supposedly in the world series hunt

[all4phillysportsfan]

I would as well, Conine is a leader in the club house, and you need those types of people if you're gonna be a World Series contender.

[Emmanuel]

Arron Rowand missed time due to an injury he caused..... I think he plays wreckless and his defense is just as weak as his offense. Arron Rowand is a TERRIBLE defensive player. He takes routine catches and turns them into trips to the DL. I think that catch was a routine catch. He also had time to stop before the wall, but he plays so wreckless that he dangers himself and teammates around him.... How would u feel if that wall was Chase Utley and he missed a month because Arron Rowand couldn't control himself.....He ends up hurting the team.....


Anyways when does Micheal Bourne come into the equation? I think if he could leadoff for the Phils that we could put Victorino in the two spots where he belongs and maybe bat 3rd with Utley in the clean up spot and Howard protecting him.....

[all4phillysportsfan]

Bourn will be the center fielder in 2008 if not sooner. I think if the Phillies are short bullpen help at the trade deadline, I'd consider moving Rowand, especially if Bourn is really tearing up AAA pitching. I personally think Victorino belongs in center field, because you want some pop in the corner outfield spots.

[Emmanuel]

You know even though I think Soriano got over paided he would have fit PERFECTLY in this lineup......Although runs won't be a problem, clutch runs will. And this team is notorious for slow starts..... Still needs a leadoff hitter.....

[all4phillysportsfan]

The Phillies final offer to Soriano was 7 years at 94 million. He would have been a great fit into this lineup, but let the Cubs overpay for him. I think Rollins will do fine in the leadoff role again this year. If we could have signed Juan Pierre, that would have been great, then put Rollins in the 2 hole.

[Emmanuel]

UGH Rollins in the leadoff spot horrifies me. He just doesn't get on Base enough....