Johan Santana

[whobob]

It seems that Johan Santana is unarguably the best pitcher in MLB right now. He's in an interesting situation too, as the Twins are a small market organization that can win. This is purely hypothetical, but were he on the A's, do you try to sign him to a long term contract or do you say, "It was a good six years" and let him walk?
His contract would take up a big chunk of payroll, but on the other hand, how often do you have a chance to have the best on your team? And it's not like we're the Devil Rays, having a pitcher like that means playoffs. Would you invest a quarter of the payroll on Johan Santana?

[RobDogBucky]

whobob;

Didn't we just let the former best in the league go to the Giants for the biggest pitcher contract ever?

Granted that the specific example of Santana at the Twins is not exactly the A's right now, it "could," be us in the not-too-distant future. I think that the Twins may have the window of opportunity to pay more to keep quality players like Santana, but only if the fans respond to their new stadium project and support with attendance like never before. I believe that would increase the old revenue stream more than new spring training hats, eh?

The only way I see that the A's would/will sign the best in the league (Harden soon, hopefully), is to get the Fremont stadium project moving forward. I believe I heard Beane quoted as saying something like "when they break ground on the new stadium is when we can start spending more..."

So, based on facts as I currently know them, it could happen, if Harden becomes the MLB #1 and if the A's break ground soon, while that mythical MLB-best Harden is still hot. Wouldn't that be great? Have Harden win the Cy Young with a team and league-leading season this year, topped off by a good long run into the playoffs, (hopefully WS champs) followed by ground-breaking, followed by a re-signing of Harden to long-term greenbacks.

Go A's!

Later,
RDB

[TheFlyingBomb]

Zito was/is not "the best in the league."
That's not a slam, Zito was one of my favorite players during his run in Oakland. It's just the truth. Very good? Yes. Best in the league? Nowhere close.

[RobDogBucky]

Flying;

Wasn't talking about now. This discussion I thought was in the theoretical, regarding the A's vs the Twins and would either franchise pay for the best pitcher in the league or not.

"Didn't we just let the former best in the league go to the Giants for the biggest pitcher contract ever?" Never said Zito was now the best, but back then I think he was.

Zito stats (just W-L and era)
'01 - 17-8 3.49
'02 - 23-5 2.75
'03 - 14-12 3.30

Santana stats (just W-L and era)
'04 - 20-6 2.61
'05 - 16-7 2.87
'06 - 19-6 2.77

My point was, Zito was prolly the best for 3 years. In the 3 years that have followed those by Zito, Santana was the best. Zito just signed for the most ever by any pitcher.

Will the Twins pay Santana what the market will?

"Would you invest a quarter of the payroll on Johan Santana?"

The A's didn't invest a quarter of the payroll. (In anyone, not Giambi, not Tejada, not Zito past his prime).

Will the Twins?

Later,
RDB

[TheFlyingBomb]

My bad. Missed the word former.

[RobDogBucky]

That's cool Flying;

Just wondering what you think of the original question by whobob?

"Would you invest a quarter of the payroll on Johan Santana?"


And thank Dog we are not in the ALCentral. Who is going to take that division this season? Chisox finish 3rd behind a surging Twins and waning Tigers last season, and I don't think we have heard the last from that Cleveland lineup. That is just brutal. I will have to check the schedule and see just how many games we have against the ALCentral.

I know the opener will be fun against the Pale Hose here on 4/9.

Today's Harden line vs White Sox in ST game; 5 innings, 5 hits, 1 ER, 7 Strikeouts. As Borat would say, "I like....verrrrrry niiiiiice."

5-2 A's, top of 9th.


Later,
RDB

[TheFlyingBomb]

Originally Posted by RobDogBucky

That's cool Flying;

Just wondering what you think of the original question by whobob?

"Would you invest a quarter of the payroll on Johan Santana?"

Nah, I wouldn't. I've been an A's fan for too long to think any other way. I'd have traded him for a bazillion prospects by now. Or assembled a team that could cope with the loss of a player like that. Santana is going to make a lot of money.

[ak4na2]

even if the a's break ground in fremont the money spent will not go towards the team as it is in oakland.. i remember beane saying as much.. the money spent will be for the club while it is in fremont if that makes sense.. in any case it would bring the likelihood of being able to entertain the idea of keeping players such as harden, haren and swisher past free agency..

in regards to keeping a player such as santana it would be impossible if you had more mid salary players on your roster.. on the twins roster where they have more than a handful of their better players making less than a million it is possible to budget in a santana at the moment.. as long as that is possible it is a no brainer in keeping him.. otherwise i would look to trade everyone else to get good young cheap talent to surround him with.. =)

the a's problem is that the young players coming up came up nearly altogether and they didnt settle on being just good players.. they apparently all wanted to and played like they were great..

[RobDogBucky]

ak4na2;

I thought I remembered Beane setting the time for starting to spend at the time they first break ground. I have not found the exact quote on that from him, but I did find these other ones from the AN interview Beane did that indicate he is at least chomping at the bit to get moving with spending more money, and my read was not waiting until they are residing in the new Fremont stadium;

...Assuming everything goes well and we're looking at a stadium possibly opening in 2011, when can fans anticipate the team starting to keep its stars?
"Beane: Very good question because you don't necessarily have to be playing in that stadium to start anticipating. My personal feeling is once you start laying bricks and it's a matter of when it gets done, that's when your business plan gets more based around that stadium. That's why you really want to start building the thing so you can start planning for that. The clock is ticking on some guys here that you would probably like to keep around. But until you start to see bricks and mortar, you have to be careful in spending what you don't have yet.

Blez: Just because it can still potentially fall through? Beane: Yeah, right. The date that will be important for me is when I see Lew (Wolff) with a hard hat and a shovel for the contrived photos and when they put that first brick in. That's when I'll say all right we can start planning long term here."

And my position on the A's move was stated by Beane at the end of that AN interview, to wit:


"Blez: Speaking of importance of history, will you be sad when the team leaves Oakland? Beane: Well it would be more disheartening to not have them in the Bay Area. I view this whole East Bay as one area. I just think of this as a great thing. And the opportunity to remain in the East Bay is what's important. It would be more disappointing to have us not here at all."

I guess for us that used to live in Oakland, but now live further away from the Bay, yet still in the East Bay, there is little or no difference in attending games in Oakland or in Fremont, as long as it is still the A's.

Go A's!
(One more week!)

Later,
RDB

[lastexit]

The the A's ownership coughed up twenty million in losses for three years (total) they would have a couple of world series trophies and a community far more likely to help them get a new ballpark. Gotta spend money to make money.

The A's are in a huge market (The SF Bay Area) with lots of money. Failure to capitalize on it in a business sense is not a failure of location - it's a failure of imagination.

[RobDogBucky]

lastexit;

I do not understand all of your post, but I think your second paragraph sums up your feelings. I know that you are hurt by the way things have gone, but I don't really think things have gone that way simply due to the A's not spending money in this market. It is just not that simplistic and I think a lot of folks have tried to get the A's to build in Oakland, but Oakland is not Baltimore, or Seattle, or Cleveland, etc. Please take note of historical fact on this topic. To wit, from this article in the East Bay Express from last November by Chris Thomas and Robert Gammon:


"...Meanwhile, thirty miles to the north, another vacant lot had become the focus of Oakland's attempt to finally create its own destination. City Manager Robert Bobb was on a one-man crusade to reawaken Oakland's long-dormant downtown with a new A's ballpark. But he needed help, so he recruited Fremont's economic development director, Rosie Rios, who had helped lead the Cisco-Catellus project. During late 2001 and early 2002, Bobb and Rios drew up a plan for a new entertainment district in Oakland's Uptown District, next to downtown, anchored by a ballpark and a refurbished Fox Theater. "It would have jumpstarted downtown Oakland," Bobb recalled.
But Bobb's boss, Mayor Jerry Brown, had other plans; he wanted the site for his friends at Forest City Enterprises Inc. a large housing developer. Brown later told reporters that A's owner Schott was not interested in the Uptown site. And while it's true that Schott never stepped forward to embrace the plan, it's also true that Brown put a gag order on it, forbidding anyone in the city from discussing it with the A's. The mayor also forbade Bobb and Rios from revealing it publicly. The plan's details came to light only when they were obtained by the Oakland Tribune. With the help of City Council President Ignacio De La Fuente, Brown effectively killed the ballpark-entertainment district in May 2002 when the council awarded the land to Forest City. Brown and Bobb's once-close relationship was damaged beyond repair, and thirteen months later, the mayor told his city manager to quit or he would fire him. Brown then terminated Rios outright. With Bobb and Rios gone, the A's destiny would not be in Oakland."

Forest City wins, Oakland A's lose.

Bobb went on to Washington DC, where, guess what, he found an agreeable City mgmt. team and a willing community and they are building a new stadium, which is why the Nats moved there. Got done pretty fast in DC, eh?

There's more, but I have no quarrel with A's fans upset that it did not get it done in Oakland, and there is no need to scratch that scab any more. Between what Al Davis did and the attitudes and political realities for folks like Brown and de la Fuentes, et al, it just didn't happen. At least they will remain in the county.

Go A's!
(Less than a week!)

Later,
RDB

[TheFlyingBomb]

I grew up in Fremont, so maybe I'm a little biased in not caring so much, but at the same time, I live in f'ing North Carolina now, so it's not going to make a whole lot of difference to me.
I still won't get to see the A's play except for maybe the 4 or 5 times ESPN shows them (or maybe - maybe - the once or twice they pop up on WGN against the W. Sox), but a new park will do good things for the franchise, so I'm on board.
And for those of you living in the Bay Area, Alameda County or otherwise, it just seems a little lame from all the way out here to be so adamantly against this move (to the point of renouncing your fandom). You'll still have all the access in the world, comparatively. Enjoy that.

[RobDogBucky]

TheFlyingBomb;

I try to be understanding with fans that are hurt by this potential A's move. I was hurt when I was a kid when the Braves moved to Atlanta and I thought the world had ended. It would have been okay with me if they had stayed in the county though.

lastexit does have a point though, that this is not a done deal yet. We can only hope though, as I fear the only alternative to a frustrated ownership if it fails would be to sell/move the team elsewhere. That is my tipping point on the deal. I don't want them to move out of the area.

Didn't know you were in Carolina. My nephew plays college ball there and his team plays #2 South Carolina today.

Where in N. Carolina are you?

Go A's!
(less than a week now!)


Later,
RDB

[TheFlyingBomb]

I live in central NC, a small town called Sanford. Where does your nephew go to school? I went to East Carolina, which has a really good baseball program. UNC has a good program as well, but you don't hear much about college baseball out this way since NC is such a basketball state.

[RobDogBucky]

Flying;

He is at Elon University in the Southern Conference, and he is tearing the cover off the ball currently. As referenced, they played a non-conference game vs #1 S. Carolina last night, and although they lost 10-6, he was the offensive star for the second game in a row. He currently has an OBP of .416 and a SLG% of .529. He went 4-4 last night with a dinger and almost hit for the cycle.

He had 5 MLB teams send him letters of intent last fall after workouts for scouts, and draft day in June will be a big one for our family. The only question that remains is which team he signs with and where he plays this summer, his first season professionally. He played the last two summers up in the Northwoods League, for the Mankato Moondogs. Those leagues allow NCAA eligible players to experience what it would be like to play in the minors. They don't get paid, and they stay in the community with volunteer host families, etc., but they play a 50-60 game schedule and travel, etc. Most of their games are at night, so the lifestyle kicks in a little bit, with them sleeping in late most days, then to the gym, then eat, then to the ballpark for about 3 hours of pre-game. It was a lot of fun and the first chance for a lot of these college players to use a wooden bat!

Later,
RDB