Johan Santana

[lastexit]

I think it's the understanding that the team won't be the same. The entire fan experience will be altered and there will surely be a shift in marketing, etc. It's a cynical move that has been proposed and is insulting. If you know much about development in the Bay Area (which is ridiculous) you're more likely to be put-off by this move. It's really a step backwards.

All that said, Oakland (read: Jerry Brown) completely dropped the ball on this issue in the past although the previous ownership was certainly not amenable nor trustworthy so you can't blame them entirely for avoiding them. Oakland knows that the team has been owned by south bay ownership for the past 12 years or so and they are not committed to the city of Oakland in any real way.

I see the end result of a move as proposed being a boring franchise in an inaccessible location (for those without cars in particular) that I slowly like less and less. If they were to move to an actual city in a new market, eg Portland, it would be different. I would still watch them on TV and I'd actually get to see more games via mlb.tv, etc, because they're out of my region.

I think it is the personality of the A's that is at stake and I don't believe that Wolff is concerned with the franchise and the baseball team in the way that we would hope. Also remember that MLB actively opposed a sale to local Oakland-based ownership so the argument that "nobody else was around to buy them" is hogwash. Until Selig is gone there's little hope for the A's in Oakland.

I continue to maintain that the Bay Area can very well support two franchises very enthusiastically. The population has grown considerably and the A's have the upper-hand in the Central Valley parts of that state that now boast millions of people. Intelligent and committed ownership can generate more revenue, spread the fanbase and eliminate the need to move to the middle of nowhere to cash in on some luxury box potential.

This team will get a new stadium in the next 10 years. It can and should be in the city of Oakland. Anyone saying "that's impossible" is putting you on.

[RobDogBucky]

lastexit;

I drafted a reply then got interrupted here at work and when I returned to finish it and post it, I was bounced out and the whole message was gone.

I said that I agreed to disagree with your points on the move being a step backwards, agree to disagree on the move making the A's a boring franchise, and agree to disagree on the Central Valley being A's territory.

I think with the Giants' media domination and having the superstation and more cable games, that they maintain media and fan dominance up and down the state. Nothing a couple MORE world championships can't fix though.

The A's are still the better franchise, only they have been more or less imprisoned in Oakland since that potential sale to the Morgan/Zimmer/then Jackson/Piccinni group in 1998. That was an attempt by Selig and his butt-buddies among the MLB owners (isn't having an owner as commish a conflict?) to contract/move Montreal, KC, Oakland, and Tampa.

Since that time, as the A's remained in the Shotmans' hands until the sale to the Wolff group, those other cities? Montreal was bought by the league, moved to DC, where guess who has engineered a new stadium for them. Minnie has a new outdoor stadium in the works, Tampa I don't know about, and KC, well, KC is KC and has not gone anywhere. My point is that where there is a will there is a way. Where there is no will, there is no way.

Lastexit, I wish there was a way to build a shiny new stadium here in Oakland. I was here when they moved here in '68 and remained a fan all of these years. I live in Walnut Creek, but did live in Oakland for 15+ of those years. With the move to Fremont planned, at least the A's are not being forced out of the area. If Oakland wanted them here, and if the political powers that be had not been abused by Al Davis, things might be different now, but they aren't.

I prefer to accept reality and move on with life. It really won't matter to me to travel to Fremont to see my A's. I am sorry that so many Oakland residents have taken this personally. I wish they would not, and I also hope that in the long run they can come around to support the new A's in their new home in Fremont, when and if that move finally takes place.

They will not be losing their soul. They will not immediately become the Gigantes. They will not suddenly become losers with no pitching and no talent in the system. They will still be the A's. Hopefully the world champion Oakland A's of Fremont many times over.

Go A's!

Later,
RDB

[Nat]

The main obstacle, besides public apathy, is the cost of real estate on a large tract of land within city limits. The Uptown site would've been perfect; as it's location was not only central, but had nearby storefronts and businesses already in place. Unfortunately, another greedy public official got his way and it didn't happen. His friends get to build yet another set of condos noone will occupy on what could've been the biggest draw for his '10k plan'.

[RobDogBucky]

Nat;

Not to mention that those big condo developments that no one will occupy are removing all the parking ramps from this neighborhood of downtown Oakland.

Throw the baby out with the bathwater, never fails.

Go A's!


Later,
RDB

[lastexit]

I guess I don't see why anybody cares of I find a new team after the A's move to Fremont.

[RobDogBucky]

"I guess I don't see why anybody cares of I find a new team after the A's move to Fremont."

lastexit;

I guess I care about how the Oakland fans feel because I went through it as a kid, losing the Milwaukee Braves to Atlanta. Now, that is really moving away, and not just down the freeway. I was gone by the time Milwaukee got the Brewers. I was here when the A's left KC for Oakland.

The A's are my team that I found after the Braves. So, even though I don't even know you, I can imagine a smidge of what you might feel. But criminy, it is only a move to Fremont, IF it happens. You won't have to move 2000 miles away and then be gifted with a team no other city wanted, like the A's in '68.

I don't think you will quit the A's if/when they go to Fremont. I don't think you will have to worry about finding a new team. They will still be nearby. You're too big a fan to give up on the team just because the owners wanted to make it work financially. IF this all goes through. And if it does, I think all the obstacles we think we see now, the potential of nearby contamination, the ultimate city approval and acceptance of EIS, the transportation questions, etc., will resolve.

Later,
RDB

[lastexit]

The fact is that I'm a fan of the city, they are my home team and also the players for those teams. Over the years I've enjoyed watching tons of fun players come and go and have remained a fan of those players. Meanwhile the A's have been abused as a franchise and without Billy Beane they would be long gone already. As successful as the team has been they've also been cheap. Cheap in the sly business way that an organization can be.

It's one thing if they are playing that as a survival strategy, in a commitment to excellence to Oakland and their fanbase. It's entirely different if they want to play that out of one side of their mouth and court the suburbs out of the other. They lose all credibility by moving to Fremont and will IMMEDIATELY need to produce results on the field and an interesting product (the team) if they want to win anything other than the "trend of the week" award.

Truth be told I've never not heard much support for the Fremont/Cisco plan from people from Oakland or who live in Oakland. The people who really support it invariably live outside the city and take a very poor view of Oakland in general. Sure, their town and lifestyle is a giant leech on the city they so deride, but hey, alls fair...ya know.

I'm not going to say anything else about it though, I really don't care that much. It's a bridge to cross down the road. I have a certain fondness for another team I'll keep to myself for now and also I'm planning to finally make an effort after 20 years to "like" the SF Giants in some way or another, if only because it's easier than living in SF and trying to ignore them. Zito is Zito and Barry Bonds is soon to be history. The rest of their team is truly bad. It might just be a fun couple years over in the cheap seats at Pacbell/SBC/ATT/Comcast/f*ckyou Park.

Now, if, living much closer to the Coliseum than Fremont, I could actually pick up the games on tv or heaven forbid watch them in HDTV or maybe get a good radio signal (i hear that may have improved) or read some coverage in the local paper or feel for even an instant that they are worth being a fan of, things might change. These are decisions by ownership. This is not the way it has always been. It need not be this way forever.

You know what they say, "I'm a fan of the name on the front of the jersey, not the one on the back." Well on the front of the jersey it says Oakland and I happen to like some of those names on the back too. The fronts of their jerseys mostly say other teams now and I have little confidence the ones still in Green and Gold will be wearing it in 3-4 years anyhow.

[RobDogBucky]

lastexit;

"The people who really support it invariably live outside the city and take a very poor view of Oakland in general. Sure, their town and lifestyle is a giant leech on the city they so deride, but hey, alls fair...ya know."

Don't worry exit, I hear your bitteness alright. I work in downtown Oakland and I am seeing the changes and development that are going on there. I spend my money there everyday at the gas station, the parking garage, the lunch counters, etc. Leeching, you see.

Then I go home. Know what? I am actively seeking a position elsewhere. Know why? Oakland is getting too expensive for me to work in. Yup, the commute is more expensive, the gas is more expensive, lunch is more expensive. So, another economic reality. Am I crying about it? No, I am trying to change it. Are there jobs closer to home? Not as many and it will be tough, but you know what? I will get it done and I won't cry about it.

I am not going to stoop and accuse Oaklanders of being leeches, of not supporting a team that has bent over backwards, put up with the likes of Al Davis, Jerry Brown and Ignacio de la Fuentes, no, I will leave cheap insults out of my *** to others. I won't remind Oaklanders about how they have not supported this team with attendance at the great mausoleum. You know there were valid reasons the owners were looking to contract the A's. Attendance is numero uno.

I won't root for another team just because the A's tried to make a go of it and had to settle for the next best deal when Oakland struck out time and time again. They have kicked the A's to the curb and now want to cry about the A's not wanting to take it anymore? I tried to reason with you and understand, but it is clear you are bitter and wallowing in self-pity.

I lived in Oakland for a long time. I was there for the quake and the fire and had a front row seat for both. I saw the traitors come and go and come back again. I respect that Oakland has tried to revitalize their downtown and applaud that effort. It is just a crying shame that the movers and shakers cannot find room for the A's in those plans. Undaunted, the A's will stay in the area and be successful, with or without Oakland.

Enjoy your new team.

Spring Training is over. They have come north.

Anyone going to the games this weekend?

Later,
RDB