1 round mock - Page 2

bnereson · February 23rd, 2007, 10:28 AM

Who do you plan on having carry the ball in GB next year? Someone has to do it.

DiamondDave · February 23rd, 2007, 10:50 AM

One of the best in the game is top 1/2??? PUH-LEASE... that would make Vince Young, Steve McNair, or Rex Grossman amung the best in the game..... Darrell Jackson, Mark Clayton, and Laveranues Coles all "one of the best"... hell with top 1/2 being the criteria, that would make about every #1 WR on every team in the NFL "one of the best"

One of the best means amung the elite, or damn close to it... Driver, quite frankly, is not even close

Hellwig · February 23rd, 2007, 11:20 AM

I am biased because I watch Driver on a weekly basis but I think he is probably without a doubt the most underrated wide-out there is playing right now. I would take him over 3/4 of other team's starters. Does that constitute elite? I guess it depends on your definition. He is also showing constant improvement every year; sure with his age a slowdown is due but I still think he has 2 or 3 top years left in him.

Driver ranked 5th in receiving yards and 5th in receptions this year. He ranked in the top 10 in receiving yards for the last three years and top 10 in receptions for the last two.

TheAJx · February 23rd, 2007, 12:31 PM

Man, I pray to God my boy Marshawn doesn't go to the freakin Packers. Please god, ANYBODY but the Packers.

BMW · February 23rd, 2007, 02:14 PM

I would imagine Ahman Green will return to Green Bay at a reasonable price. They also like Vernand Morencey who they traded for. They can always draft a RB in the 3rd or 4th round anyway.

Donald Driver is a good WR, but the reason he puts up the numbers he does is because there is no other threat on the team. It wears on the offense as well, think about every third down situation, if we were throwing, Favre was set on forcing it into Driver at some point. I'd be willing to bet that over 70% of our third down and long plays ended either in a completion to Driver or in an incompletion attempted towards Driver. Our passing game in the Red Zone is stagnant, because he is not a big tall receiver with the ability to go up and get a ball. Don't get me wrong, he can jump, but Driver's jumping ability puts him in the same spot where Dwayne Jarrett and Calvin Johnson are when they put their hands in the air, and don't jump.

Driver goes to the Pro Bowl, and gets picked in Fantasy leagues, and is talked about on SportsCenter, so I wouldn't agree he's underrated either...I think Torry Holt is more underrated than even Marvin Harrison at this point, because people are now focusing on how Marvin wasn't being talked about before...

If the Packers were to draft Dwayne Jarrett (if he's available) it would greatly improve their passing game, especially in the red zone, and would force teams to put in an extra man in coverage. This would open up the running game for whoever is running the ball, be it Ahman Green, Vernand Morency, or some other rookie not taken in the first round. Whereas, teams are already putting 8 in the box, adding a better RB isn't going to draw in that 9th guy. The Packers need to spread the field, and if they can't get Dwayne Jarrett they need to consider either defense or trading down and trying to get TE Olsen a little later in the first round.

bnereson · February 27th, 2007, 06:39 AM

where does it come from all of a sudden that i think grossman is one of the best QBs? he's one of the worst. here is a rough list of the "top" WRs in my opinion...

1. Steve Smith
2. Chad Johnson
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Torry Holt
5. Reggie Wayne
6. Larry Fitzgerald
7. Roy Williams
8. Donald Driver
9. Terrell Owens
10. TJ Houshmandzadeh
11. Anquan Boldin
12. Javon Walker
13. Darrell Jackson

bnereson · February 27th, 2007, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiamondDave

One of the best in the game is top 1/2??? PUH-LEASE... that would make Vince Young, Steve McNair, or Rex Grossman amung the best in the game..... Darrell Jackson, Mark Clayton, and Laveranues Coles all "one of the best"... hell with top 1/2 being the criteria, that would make about every #1 WR on every team in the NFL "one of the best"

One of the best means amung the elite, or damn close to it... Driver, quite frankly, is not even close

also, Vince Young probably is in the top 1/2 of QBs based on his overall playmaking ability. he was 8-4 as a starter, and almost single handedly won a lot of those games. darrell jackson should also be considered in the top 1/2 of the league as #1 WRs. do you watch football?

DiamondDave · February 27th, 2007, 07:00 AM

But the argument is that "top half" is not "one of the best"

And I would not put Driver in the top 10 in any way, shape, or form

and just an FYI... we do not put up with personal insults on this forum.....

bnereson · February 27th, 2007, 07:17 AM

ok, well i'll add the next 3 to make it the top half...
14. Lee Evans
15. Marques Colston
16. Braylon Edwards (just needs to stay healthy to be a beast)

bnereson · February 27th, 2007, 07:20 AM

also, if you don't want driver in the top 10, then who is above him? I'm sure you'll say TO, who drops as many balls as he catches, and may be Housh. however, I'd say Housh benefits too much from CJ to be above Driver, who is still putting up numbers despite the fact that you all point out as him being the only passing option on the packers. if he's only putting up numbers because he's the only option, then why isn't he being stopped? the defense should be focusing on him if that's the case, but yet he's still making catches and making plays.

BMW · February 27th, 2007, 02:48 PM

The Best
1. Torry Holt
2. Chad Johnson
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Steve Smith
------------------
The Very Very Good
5. Larry Fitzgerald
6. Hines Ward
7. Reggie Wayne
8. Javon Walker
------------------
The Very Good
9. Anquan Boldin
10. Andre Johnson
11. Donald Driver
12. Terrell Owens
13. Roy Williams
------------------
The Good
14. Darrell Jackson
15. TJ Houshmanzadeh
and there are more in this group, but why waste the time going through them all?

There is no way to correctly compare Donald Driver to any of "the Best" (note 1-4) and say that he is just as good as them, because he is simply not as athletically gifted as any of them. Even the Very Very Good, (note 5-8) he just doesn't compare at all. And the most important thing in all of this is that you can NEVER correctly rate Javon Walker lower than Donald Driver, since they played togather for 3 years and when Walker finally adjusted to the league he outproduced DD like he was standing still.

Anyway the point is, Donald Driver is getting older anyway, and since they have no other option, they wouldn't be very smart if they passed up Dwayne Jarrett, unless something unforseen happens, like any of Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Alan Branch, Jamaal Anderson, Amobye Okoye, Gaines Adams, LaRon Landry, or Reggie Nelson also is available to them at 16, but I doubt that.

bnereson · March 1st, 2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW

The Best
1. Torry Holt
2. Chad Johnson
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Steve Smith
------------------
The Very Very Good
5. Larry Fitzgerald
6. Hines Ward
7. Reggie Wayne
8. Javon Walker
------------------
The Very Good
9. Anquan Boldin
10. Andre Johnson
11. Donald Driver
12. Terrell Owens
13. Roy Williams
------------------
The Good
14. Darrell Jackson
15. TJ Houshmanzadeh
and there are more in this group, but why waste the time going through them all?

There is no way to correctly compare Donald Driver to any of "the Best" (note 1-4) and say that he is just as good as them, because he is simply not as athletically gifted as any of them. Even the Very Very Good, (note 5-8) he just doesn't compare at all. And the most important thing in all of this is that you can NEVER correctly rate Javon Walker lower than Donald Driver, since they played togather for 3 years and when Walker finally adjusted to the league he outproduced DD like he was standing still.

Anyway the point is, Donald Driver is getting older anyway, and since they have no other option, they wouldn't be very smart if they passed up Dwayne Jarrett, unless something unforseen happens, like any of Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Alan Branch, Jamaal Anderson, Amobye Okoye, Gaines Adams, LaRon Landry, or Reggie Nelson also is available to them at 16, but I doubt that.

First of all, any list is subjective. anyone can have their own opinions and may be able to make a case for it. that being said, I have no idea how you can put Hines Ward in the class of "very very good." He has been in the past, but doesn't seem to be in his prime anymore. Also, how can you put Andre Johnson above Driver? because of his potential? certainly not because of the result of his play. driver should be moved up at least 2 spots on your list, above those two, putting him at 9.

DiamondDave · March 1st, 2007, 06:59 AM

Um... you complain about Ward being there because "doesn't seem to be in his prime anymore"???

Hello pot... this is kettle calling.... something about the color black.....

Ward is STILL one of the best, if not THE BEST blocking WR in the league, and is still every bit as good as a pass catcher as he has been as well.... the raw stats do not tell the whole story... you have to look at the situation completely, intangibles and all...

As for Johnson... maybe if his QB were not getting knocked around like a pinball in a pinball machine on spped, he might have better numbers.,... but the fact is that this kid is one of the better WR's in the game NOW.. and still improving... he is leaps and bounds better all around than Driver.... I put Driver no higher than 15, and that is being generous... Driver moved to another team is probably a #2 WR, much like a Terry Glenn or Joey Galloway is today... he is not an elite talent, he is not an elite WR, and he certainly is not "one of the best" WR's in the league

BMW · March 1st, 2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnereson

Also, how can you put Andre Johnson above Driver? because of his potential? certainly not because of the result of his play.

I can put Andre Johnson above Donald Driver because he caught more passes this year, and wasn't far behind in yards or TDs....the fact that he is on the rise, if his QB could stay on his feet, and that Driver is on the decline. His play has suggested that he is better than Driver.

Anyway the bottom line is you saying the Packers don't need a WR because Donald Driver is one of the best? Then why are they trying to trade for Randy Moss? Maybe because they realize Driver isn't one of the best, has his best years behind him, and they need a WR. I really like it when an NFL team goes and makes obvious moves that coincide with my argument, it means I was probably right. Here's to hoping we can get back to talking about this mock draft again...

bnereson · March 1st, 2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW

Anyway the bottom line is you saying the Packers don't need a WR because Donald Driver is one of the best? Then why are they trying to trade for Randy Moss? Maybe because they realize Driver isn't one of the best, has his best years behind him, and they need a WR. I really like it when an NFL team goes and makes obvious moves that coincide with my argument, it means I was probably right. Here's to hoping we can get back to talking about this mock draft again...

anyways, i don't disagree that the packers could use help at WR. my point was that they don't need to use a top pick on one (randy moss is said to be going for possibly a 3rd rounder). I think their more pressing need is at RB, and that lynch would be a very good pick for them. considering they DO have driver, they can go ahead and take Lynch, and then fill their want for a WR in a later round, or even trade for RM.

February 23rd, 2007, 10:50 AM	#17 (permalink)
DiamondDave Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MD, on the Potomac River Posts: 5,390	One of the best in the game is top 1/2??? PUH-LEASE... that would make Vince Young, Steve McNair, or Rex Grossman amung the best in the game..... Darrell Jackson, Mark Clayton, and Laveranues Coles all "one of the best"... hell with top 1/2 being the criteria, that would make about every #1 WR on every team in the NFL "one of the best" One of the best means amung the elite, or damn close to it... Driver, quite frankly, is not even close __________________ Reagan in 08... Even though he's dead, he's the better choice! Superdelegates - Because even the Democratic party knows it's base is too stupid to make really important decisions.

February 23rd, 2007, 02:14 PM	#20 (permalink)
BMW Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cape Coral Florida Posts: 830	I would imagine Ahman Green will return to Green Bay at a reasonable price. They also like Vernand Morencey who they traded for. They can always draft a RB in the 3rd or 4th round anyway. Donald Driver is a good WR, but the reason he puts up the numbers he does is because there is no other threat on the team. It wears on the offense as well, think about every third down situation, if we were throwing, Favre was set on forcing it into Driver at some point. I'd be willing to bet that over 70% of our third down and long plays ended either in a completion to Driver or in an incompletion attempted towards Driver. Our passing game in the Red Zone is stagnant, because he is not a big tall receiver with the ability to go up and get a ball. Don't get me wrong, he can jump, but Driver's jumping ability puts him in the same spot where Dwayne Jarrett and Calvin Johnson are when they put their hands in the air, and don't jump. Driver goes to the Pro Bowl, and gets picked in Fantasy leagues, and is talked about on SportsCenter, so I wouldn't agree he's underrated either...I think Torry Holt is more underrated than even Marvin Harrison at this point, because people are now focusing on how Marvin wasn't being talked about before... If the Packers were to draft Dwayne Jarrett (if he's available) it would greatly improve their passing game, especially in the red zone, and would force teams to put in an extra man in coverage. This would open up the running game for whoever is running the ball, be it Ahman Green, Vernand Morency, or some other rookie not taken in the first round. Whereas, teams are already putting 8 in the box, adding a better RB isn't going to draw in that 9th guy. The Packers need to spread the field, and if they can't get Dwayne Jarrett they need to consider either defense or trading down and trying to get TE Olsen a little later in the first round. __________________ BMW Green Bay Packers 14-4

February 27th, 2007, 07:00 AM	#23 (permalink)
DiamondDave Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MD, on the Potomac River Posts: 5,390	But the argument is that "top half" is not "one of the best" And I would not put Driver in the top 10 in any way, shape, or form and just an FYI... we do not put up with personal insults on this forum..... __________________ Reagan in 08... Even though he's dead, he's the better choice! Superdelegates - Because even the Democratic party knows it's base is too stupid to make really important decisions.

February 27th, 2007, 02:48 PM	#26 (permalink)
BMW Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cape Coral Florida Posts: 830	The Best 1. Torry Holt 2. Chad Johnson 3. Marvin Harrison 4. Steve Smith ------------------ The Very Very Good 5. Larry Fitzgerald 6. Hines Ward 7. Reggie Wayne 8. Javon Walker ------------------ The Very Good 9. Anquan Boldin 10. Andre Johnson 11. Donald Driver 12. Terrell Owens 13. Roy Williams ------------------ The Good 14. Darrell Jackson 15. TJ Houshmanzadeh and there are more in this group, but why waste the time going through them all? There is no way to correctly compare Donald Driver to any of "the Best" (note 1-4) and say that he is just as good as them, because he is simply not as athletically gifted as any of them. Even the Very Very Good, (note 5-8) he just doesn't compare at all. And the most important thing in all of this is that you can NEVER correctly rate Javon Walker lower than Donald Driver, since they played togather for 3 years and when Walker finally adjusted to the league he outproduced DD like he was standing still. Anyway the point is, Donald Driver is getting older anyway, and since they have no other option, they wouldn't be very smart if they passed up Dwayne Jarrett, unless something unforseen happens, like any of Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Alan Branch, Jamaal Anderson, Amobye Okoye, Gaines Adams, LaRon Landry, or Reggie Nelson also is available to them at 16, but I doubt that. __________________ BMW Green Bay Packers 14-4

March 1st, 2007, 06:59 AM	#28 (permalink)
DiamondDave Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MD, on the Potomac River Posts: 5,390	Um... you complain about Ward being there because "doesn't seem to be in his prime anymore"??? Hello pot... this is kettle calling.... something about the color black..... Ward is STILL one of the best, if not THE BEST blocking WR in the league, and is still every bit as good as a pass catcher as he has been as well.... the raw stats do not tell the whole story... you have to look at the situation completely, intangibles and all... As for Johnson... maybe if his QB were not getting knocked around like a pinball in a pinball machine on spped, he might have better numbers.,... but the fact is that this kid is one of the better WR's in the game NOW.. and still improving... he is leaps and bounds better all around than Driver.... I put Driver no higher than 15, and that is being generous... Driver moved to another team is probably a #2 WR, much like a Terry Glenn or Joey Galloway is today... he is not an elite talent, he is not an elite WR, and he certainly is not "one of the best" WR's in the league __________________ Reagan in 08... Even though he's dead, he's the better choice! Superdelegates - Because even the Democratic party knows it's base is too stupid to make really important decisions.

February 23rd, 2007, 10:28 AM	#16 (permalink)
bnereson Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 17	Who do you plan on having carry the ball in GB next year? Someone has to do it.

February 23rd, 2007, 11:20 AM	#18 (permalink)
Hellwig Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,708	I am biased because I watch Driver on a weekly basis but I think he is probably without a doubt the most underrated wide-out there is playing right now. I would take him over 3/4 of other team's starters. Does that constitute elite? I guess it depends on your definition. He is also showing constant improvement every year; sure with his age a slowdown is due but I still think he has 2 or 3 top years left in him. Driver ranked 5th in receiving yards and 5th in receptions this year. He ranked in the top 10 in receiving yards for the last three years and top 10 in receptions for the last two.

February 23rd, 2007, 12:31 PM	#19 (permalink)
TheAJx Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 889	Man, I pray to God my boy Marshawn doesn't go to the freakin Packers. Please god, ANYBODY but the Packers.

February 27th, 2007, 06:39 AM	#21 (permalink)
bnereson Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 17	where does it come from all of a sudden that i think grossman is one of the best QBs? he's one of the worst. here is a rough list of the "top" WRs in my opinion... 1. Steve Smith 2. Chad Johnson 3. Marvin Harrison 4. Torry Holt 5. Reggie Wayne 6. Larry Fitzgerald 7. Roy Williams 8. Donald Driver 9. Terrell Owens 10. TJ Houshmandzadeh 11. Anquan Boldin 12. Javon Walker 13. Darrell Jackson

February 27th, 2007, 07:17 AM	#24 (permalink)
bnereson Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 17	ok, well i'll add the next 3 to make it the top half... 14. Lee Evans 15. Marques Colston 16. Braylon Edwards (just needs to stay healthy to be a beast)

February 27th, 2007, 07:20 AM	#25 (permalink)
bnereson Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 17	also, if you don't want driver in the top 10, then who is above him? I'm sure you'll say TO, who drops as many balls as he catches, and may be Housh. however, I'd say Housh benefits too much from CJ to be above Driver, who is still putting up numbers despite the fact that you all point out as him being the only passing option on the packers. if he's only putting up numbers because he's the only option, then why isn't he being stopped? the defense should be focusing on him if that's the case, but yet he's still making catches and making plays.