Jeter Runner-Up for MVP

RangerFan09 · 11-21-2006, 08:27 PM

First off Congrats to Justin, he had a hell of a year. But i just don't know if he deserved the award. Mauer and Santana were more important to that team then Morneau. I think the MVP these days are based more on numbers and that is not the purpose of the award.

Thoughts?

mattkaz · 11-22-2006, 09:52 AM

He was robbed, IMO.

Morneau is a great player, but I agree that Mauer and Santana were more valuable. I think I would've given it to Frank Thomas before Morneau, because he had even less of a supporting cast.

The writers really messed up this year. Howard and Morneau just weren't the right picks. If Howard wins, why doesn't Ortiz? It's disappointing cause who knows when Jeter will get another chance.

Dan · 11-22-2006, 12:03 PM

Hey guys, just like to add my two cents in on the subject:

2006 Numbers:
Jeter:
.343 AVG/.417 OBP/.483 SLG/.900 OPS
201 total runs produced
.381 AVG w/ RISP
.369 AVG W/ RISP and 2 outs

Morneau:
.321 AVG/.375 OBP/.559 SLG/.934 OPS
193 total runs produced
.323 AVG w/ RISP
.303 AVG w/ RISP and 2 outs

You decide. I already know I have.

Yankee Mystique · 11-22-2006, 12:30 PM

Justin doesn't have as great a supporting cast as Jeter guys. I agree about Frank Thomas too, but anyone know if they had a lot of game tying or go ahead home runs or even Base hits? The last time Thomas won it there were many times he had key home runs the whole year.

Kilroys · 11-22-2006, 06:29 PM

So these days the requirement for being an MVP is to be on a winning team and have no supporting cast. Give me a break!

Jeter played a much more demanding position. There's a reason why no one other than A-Rod ever put up numbers like Morneau at SS. Offensively there was no SS in the league who could touch Jeter. Morneau was a different story. Pujols and Howard just off the top of my head were both better. Heck, even Konerko's #s were not much worse than Morneau's.

The fact is, all of Jeter's clutch #s - BA w/ RISP, BA close & late, BA w/ RISP & 2outs, BA w/ runners on base were all FAR better than Morneau's. If you think it was because of better overall BA, think again. Jeter's BA w/ bases empty was only only .003 better than Morneau's.

In addition, Jeter had a great SB ratio (and a lot of SB), something Morneau did not have, and a much higher OBP.

No friggin' way did Morneau deserve to win!

Dan · 11-22-2006, 07:14 PM

Here is the email I sent to Mr.Cowley, who voted Jeter 6th in the MVP voting:

I'm sure you're getting a lot of these and my e-mail runs a good chance of being deleted. However, I will still take the time of trying to disprove your theory that Derek Jeter only deserved a sixth place vote? Please look at these statistics:

2006 Numbers:
Jeter:
.343 AVG/.417 OBP/.483 SLG/.900 OPS
201 total runs produced
.381 AVG w/ RISP
.369 AVG W/ RISP and 2 outs

Morneau:
.321 AVG/.375 OBP/.559 SLG/.934 OPS
193 total runs produced
.323 AVG w/ RISP
.303 AVG w/ RISP and 2 outs

While his OPS was higher than Jeter's, the other numbers point toward Jeter. Also, while Jeter by no means should have been the American League Gold Glove winner at shortstop, he still plays a "more valuable" defensive position than Justin Morneau. This has to be factored into the equation.

Also, if you could just answer me this one question: who were the five guys you put ahead of Jeter and in what order? To me, there doesn't seem a possible way that you could have found a way to say that five other players in the American League were more valuable than Jeter. If you could write me back with statistical data in which to back your claims, then maybe my confusion will be put aside.

Thank you in advance for you response,
-Dan a baseball fan

Here is his email address in case you want to send him something...

jcowley@suntimes.com

FollowThePlan · 11-22-2006, 07:26 PM

Yes, Jeter got robbed. With all the injuries we had, Jeter was the glue that held things together and had a great season. Sure, we had a lot of talent on the roster despite the injuries, but Jeter shouldn’t get penalized for that.

The funny thing is that I felt Jeter didn’t deserve a Gold Glove and he won that, and deserved the MVP and got beat.

All well, hopefully he gets the MVP and the World Series MVP next season!

Yankee1012 · 11-24-2006, 02:14 PM

Jeter had better numbers in 8 out of 14 catagories and Morneau 6 out of 14 so yeah Jeter was probley robbed. On another forum theres a bunch of guys who hate the yankees and i was telling them why Jeter deserved to win or even be a candidate. They wouldnt listen but then someone backed me up so maybe that will change there minds.

heres his post that helped explain what i was explaining:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine24

Lets Compare:

Batting average

Jeter 347
Morneau 321

Jeter leads 1-0

HR's
Jeter 14
Morneau 34

Tied 1-1

RBI
Jeter 97 from the 2 hole
Morneau 130

2-1 Morneau

Stolen Bases

Jeter 34
Morneau 3

2-2

Runs
Jeter 118
Morneau 97

3-2 Jeter

Hits:
Jeter 214
Morneau190

Jeter 4-2

Doubles:
Jeter 39
Morneau 37

Jeter 5-2

Triples:
Jeter 3
Morneau 1

Jeter 6-2

Total bases
Jeter 301
Morneau 331

Jeter 6-3

Walks
Jeter 69
Morneau 53

Jeter 7-3

Strikeouts
Jeter 102
Morneau 93

Jeter 7-4

Onbase percentage
Jeter 417
Morneau 375

Jeter 8-4

Slugging
Jeter 483
Morneau 559

Jeter 8-5

On base Plus SLugging
Jeter 900
Morneau 937

Jeter 8-6

So as u can see Derek Jeter outdid Morneau 8 to 6 in the major categories.

Jeter isnt a slugger but yet his slugging percentage and OPS were very close to Morneau's all things considered

Throw in the fact Jeter's team had the better record and he is a better defensive player playing a much more demanding position and Jeter shouldve won the MVP.
Jeter knocked in 97 runs as the 2nd hitter.
Had more hits scored more runs had more doubles.
Jeter was Robbed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine24

I am simply making a case as to why Jeter was robbed.

He may have been knocked in by those guys behind him but JETER had to get on base to be driven in.

He hit 23pts higher, had 20 plus more hits, scored over 2o more runs, had a higher onbase percentage and plays a much more demanding position and played it at an extremely high level.

Abreu only played after the All star break as well, AROD had a good season but still his worst, Shef and Matsui missed most of the season, the pitching staff was in shambles but yet the Yanks survived.

If Jeter didnt get so many hits and get on base so much, the guys behind him wouldn't have had as many RBI's.

It comes down to this

What is more valuable.

Strong up the middle D or a first basemen

23 pts on a batting average, 21 more hits, 20 more runs, 31 more SB's and a higher On Base percentage

OR

20 more HR's 33RbI's a slightly higher slugging and a slightly higher OPS.

Jeter had a 900 OPS that is ridiculous for a non power hitter.

Morneau hit 34 HR's, I could see if he hit 45 or 50 but 34 in this day and time isnt that amazing. Not MVP worthy over a guy with the credentials of Jeter.

Dan · 11-24-2006, 02:24 PM

Yankee, what forum is this on? Is it on fanhome?

Yankee1012 · 11-24-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

Yankee, what forum is this on? Is it on fanhome?

No its on 2ksports. Ive been a member of that forum for a while but this forum is cool and theres not as much spam

.

I got 2 guys from 2k to join here.

RangerFan09 · 11-24-2006, 02:31 PM

I still say most of the number you list should matter. See if the award was the Best Offensive Player then yes. But I think that the award should be looked at who was more valuable to their team. And like i said before Morneau was thrid valuable on his team. Mauer and Santana were more valuable. Now as for JEter he kept this team afloat for most of the year. I mean Cano was out for a little bit, Matsui/Sheff gone for most of the year. I think Jeter kept this team in it and really helped this team down the stretch with his clutch hitting and game winning hits.

That's why i think Jeter deserved it. Now this day in age of baseball, i realize voting on the MVP is on the numbers, which i still have no clue why. Numbers isn't what this award is all about.

Dan · 11-24-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankee1012

No its on 2ksports. Ive been a member of that forum for a while but this forum is cool and theres not as much spam

.

I got 2 guys from 2k to join here.

Good stuff. Hope to hear from them soon.

Ultimate · 11-24-2006, 03:01 PM

Yes you can make a case for Jeter. But considering that the Yankees probably would have made the playoffs without him and considering that Morneau had better numbers I have no problem with Morneau winning.

RMF · 12-01-2006, 07:34 PM

Look Morneau is a hideous MVP selection. It is a complete Joke that he got as many 1st place votes as he did. I'm not a Yankee fan and I think it looks like a conspiracy.

We all knew Jeter would get a lot of votes and he did. But I expected some of the other AL players to get a lot more consideration. Ortiz's, Manny's results were pathetic. You have to ask if the people who vote these things really know anything about baseball.

The fact that Morneau got more votes that Mauer or Santana is incredibly disturbing. The fact that Santana didn't get more votes period is disturbing.

Kilroys · 12-02-2006, 09:48 PM

I think the vote is ridiculous. However, I don't think the results were because of an anti-Yankee bias. A-Rod did win the MVP just last year, after all. I think it was just good old-fashioned stupidity, plain and simple.

11-21-2006, 08:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
RangerFan09 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 157	Jeter Runner-Up for MVP First off Congrats to Justin, he had a hell of a year. But i just don't know if he deserved the award. Mauer and Santana were more important to that team then Morneau. I think the MVP these days are based more on numbers and that is not the purpose of the award. Thoughts?

11-22-2006, 09:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
mattkaz New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1	He was robbed, IMO. Morneau is a great player, but I agree that Mauer and Santana were more valuable. I think I would've given it to Frank Thomas before Morneau, because he had even less of a supporting cast. The writers really messed up this year. Howard and Morneau just weren't the right picks. If Howard wins, why doesn't Ortiz? It's disappointing cause who knows when Jeter will get another chance.

11-22-2006, 12:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
Dan Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 256	Hey guys, just like to add my two cents in on the subject: 2006 Numbers: Jeter: .343 AVG/.417 OBP/.483 SLG/.900 OPS 201 total runs produced .381 AVG w/ RISP .369 AVG W/ RISP and 2 outs Morneau: .321 AVG/.375 OBP/.559 SLG/.934 OPS 193 total runs produced .323 AVG w/ RISP .303 AVG w/ RISP and 2 outs You decide. I already know I have.

11-22-2006, 12:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
Yankee Mystique Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 52	Justin doesn't have as great a supporting cast as Jeter guys. I agree about Frank Thomas too, but anyone know if they had a lot of game tying or go ahead home runs or even Base hits? The last time Thomas won it there were many times he had key home runs the whole year.

11-22-2006, 06:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
Kilroys Rookie Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12	So these days the requirement for being an MVP is to be on a winning team and have no supporting cast. Give me a break! Jeter played a much more demanding position. There's a reason why no one other than A-Rod ever put up numbers like Morneau at SS. Offensively there was no SS in the league who could touch Jeter. Morneau was a different story. Pujols and Howard just off the top of my head were both better. Heck, even Konerko's #s were not much worse than Morneau's. The fact is, all of Jeter's clutch #s - BA w/ RISP, BA close & late, BA w/ RISP & 2outs, BA w/ runners on base were all FAR better than Morneau's. If you think it was because of better overall BA, think again. Jeter's BA w/ bases empty was only only .003 better than Morneau's. In addition, Jeter had a great SB ratio (and a lot of SB), something Morneau did not have, and a much higher OBP. No friggin' way did Morneau deserve to win!

11-22-2006, 07:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
Dan Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 256	Here is the email I sent to Mr.Cowley, who voted Jeter 6th in the MVP voting: I'm sure you're getting a lot of these and my e-mail runs a good chance of being deleted. However, I will still take the time of trying to disprove your theory that Derek Jeter only deserved a sixth place vote? Please look at these statistics: 2006 Numbers: Jeter: .343 AVG/.417 OBP/.483 SLG/.900 OPS 201 total runs produced .381 AVG w/ RISP .369 AVG W/ RISP and 2 outs Morneau: .321 AVG/.375 OBP/.559 SLG/.934 OPS 193 total runs produced .323 AVG w/ RISP .303 AVG w/ RISP and 2 outs While his OPS was higher than Jeter's, the other numbers point toward Jeter. Also, while Jeter by no means should have been the American League Gold Glove winner at shortstop, he still plays a "more valuable" defensive position than Justin Morneau. This has to be factored into the equation. Also, if you could just answer me this one question: who were the five guys you put ahead of Jeter and in what order? To me, there doesn't seem a possible way that you could have found a way to say that five other players in the American League were more valuable than Jeter. If you could write me back with statistical data in which to back your claims, then maybe my confusion will be put aside. Thank you in advance for you response, -Dan a baseball fan Here is his email address in case you want to send him something... jcowley@suntimes.com

11-22-2006, 07:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
FollowThePlan New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8	Yes, Jeter got robbed. With all the injuries we had, Jeter was the glue that held things together and had a great season. Sure, we had a lot of talent on the roster despite the injuries, but Jeter shouldn’t get penalized for that. The funny thing is that I felt Jeter didn’t deserve a Gold Glove and he won that, and deserved the MVP and got beat. All well, hopefully he gets the MVP and the World Series MVP next season!

11-24-2006, 02:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dan Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 256	Yankee, what forum is this on? Is it on fanhome?

11-24-2006, 02:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
RangerFan09 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 157	I still say most of the number you list should matter. See if the award was the Best Offensive Player then yes. But I think that the award should be looked at who was more valuable to their team. And like i said before Morneau was thrid valuable on his team. Mauer and Santana were more valuable. Now as for JEter he kept this team afloat for most of the year. I mean Cano was out for a little bit, Matsui/Sheff gone for most of the year. I think Jeter kept this team in it and really helped this team down the stretch with his clutch hitting and game winning hits. That's why i think Jeter deserved it. Now this day in age of baseball, i realize voting on the MVP is on the numbers, which i still have no clue why. Numbers isn't what this award is all about.

11-24-2006, 03:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ultimate Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 116	Yes you can make a case for Jeter. But considering that the Yankees probably would have made the playoffs without him and considering that Morneau had better numbers I have no problem with Morneau winning.

12-01-2006, 07:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
RMF Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 201	Look Morneau is a hideous MVP selection. It is a complete Joke that he got as many 1st place votes as he did. I'm not a Yankee fan and I think it looks like a conspiracy. We all knew Jeter would get a lot of votes and he did. But I expected some of the other AL players to get a lot more consideration. Ortiz's, Manny's results were pathetic. You have to ask if the people who vote these things really know anything about baseball. The fact that Morneau got more votes that Mauer or Santana is incredibly disturbing. The fact that Santana didn't get more votes period is disturbing.

12-02-2006, 09:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
Kilroys Rookie Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12	I think the vote is ridiculous. However, I don't think the results were because of an anti-Yankee bias. A-Rod did win the MVP just last year, after all. I think it was just good old-fashioned stupidity, plain and simple.