Durant or Oden? - Page 2

dlb · April 23rd, 2007, 01:22 PM

Sure he was; he didn't have to face another player as tall as he is. That's the only comparison I'm making to Haywood - looks great against shorter guys, not so great against other big men.

My mention of Oden's failure to pull off a win against FL was in response to your assertion that big men win titles. They don't. Quality big men on quality teams win titles. Oden has yet to demonstrate that he is a quality big man.

I remember having almost the same discussion a couple of years ago when everyone thought Andrew Bogut was the hands-down top choice in the draft. He wasn't. Oden isn't either.

BravesRule22 · April 23rd, 2007, 02:13 PM

Big men win titles in the NBA, in college Guards and 3 point shooting wins rings.

As for the smaller players

Noah is 6'11 with a huge wing span and Hordford is 6'10 and built like a house. It wasnt like he was going up against 6'8 guys.

dlb · April 23rd, 2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Big men win titles in the NBA, in college Guards and 3 point shooting wins rings.

Teams win titles, no matter where the game is played.

BravesRule22 · April 23rd, 2007, 07:31 PM

not really true....

Look at the Lakers teams with Shaq and Kobe, were they really the best team ? No but they had the most dominate big men in the game, whats why they won.

Were the Bulls team a GREAT team ? No, but they had MJ.......

99 % of the time you have to have the dominate great player to win a ring.

dlb · April 24th, 2007, 04:58 AM

There is no doubt that the Shaq/Kobe Lakers were the best team of their time. MJ didn't win squat until Pippen, Grant and other very-good players turned the Bulls into a great team.

Basketball is a team game. One player never gets you there on his own.

BravesRule22 · April 24th, 2007, 11:57 AM

MJ only had Pippen and Rodmanthe rest of those teams were a bunch of scrubs. Horace never did anything without MJ, he was a decent player at best.

Here is there championship team from 1996

MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Longley, Wennington, Jud Buchler, Dickey Simpkins, Jason Caffey, Randy Brown, Ron Harper

Come on that was the best all around team in 1996 ? I dont think so

And here is the Laker team from 2001

Kobe, Shaq, RIck Fox, DFish, Deaven George, Horry, Samiki Walker, Lindsey Hunter, Medvedenko., Mitch Richmond, Brian Shaw, Madsen, Jelani McCoy

Their starting 5 outside of SHaq and Kobe is average and their bench is filled with crap

dlb · April 24th, 2007, 07:04 PM

Grant was a very good power forward. Scott Williams a very good center. Tony Kukoc was any effective player. Robert Horry had some very good years with the Lakers (as did Kurt Rambis before him).

In short, a very good team is not necessarily a team of all-stars, it's a team of players who complement each other well (as Kevin McHale once said of the 1980s Celtics, "We're all role players on this team. Larry's role is to score 40 points a night."). That the 1996 Bulls and 2001 Lakers were the best team's in the NBA was proven in the playoffs. While an inferior team can take a game or get lucky in a three game series, they don't win 5 - 7 games series.

Captain Fear · May 2nd, 2007, 05:51 PM

It's kind of hard to choice, and it really depends on the team. If you need the scored you go with Durant, but if you need the big defender, who can score, not like Durant most games, but can still score you need to go Oden.

But if I was starting from scratch I'd rather have Oden. He's a powerful force who can and I believe will be a good center in the NBA. Good Defensive centers are hard to come by these days, and it's like Calvin Johnson, when a play this good shows up in a position thats truly needed for a team to win, you have to take him...

Hellwig · May 22nd, 2007, 08:01 AM

I guess it is no big shocker but the Bucks GM; Larry Harris has gone on the record and said if the Bucks get the first overall pick he will take Greg Oden.

bedir than average · May 22nd, 2007, 08:10 AM

Yes, its quite apparent that every team thinks that Oden is either more NBA ready or plays a position that is so much harder to find.

Durant might wind up with the better career, but it is so hard to find that quality center.

BravesRule22 · May 22nd, 2007, 10:21 AM

Durant might end up having the better numbers but Oden might end up having Duncans career

Like TMac has better numbers than Duncan but you damn sure would rather have Duncans career over TMacs

dlb · May 22nd, 2007, 04:07 PM

I think it's almost certain that Oden will go first. He's tall. NBA GMs can't resist tall.

There is also a good chance that Oden will have a bigger impact than Durant. From what I saw of him in college, he's a bit of a stiff, but he's young and funny as it sounds, it really does take a while to figure out how to move that much body around. I expect him to be a mediocre big man for about three years, then he either rises to the elite level or becomes just another journeyman. My guess is that the chances are maybe 60 - 40 in favor of his rising to the elite level. It's a risk any GM would take.

Durant, OTOH, is about to meet lots and lots of guys who have as much talent as he does. I'm reminded of a comment Jerry Stackhouse made after his rookie year in the NBA. It went something like this:
"You'll be warming up before the game and you'll see some guy do something and say to yourself, 'damn, I thought I was the only guy who could do that.' Then, the game starts, and that guy never gets off the bench."

April 23rd, 2007, 02:13 PM	#17 (permalink)
BravesRule22 Basketball Community Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,089	Big men win titles in the NBA, in college Guards and 3 point shooting wins rings. As for the smaller players Noah is 6'11 with a huge wing span and Hordford is 6'10 and built like a house. It wasnt like he was going up against 6'8 guys. __________________ Braves, Knicks, Bucs, Louisville

April 23rd, 2007, 07:31 PM	#19 (permalink)
BravesRule22 Basketball Community Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,089	not really true.... Look at the Lakers teams with Shaq and Kobe, were they really the best team ? No but they had the most dominate big men in the game, whats why they won. Were the Bulls team a GREAT team ? No, but they had MJ....... 99 % of the time you have to have the dominate great player to win a ring. __________________ Braves, Knicks, Bucs, Louisville

April 24th, 2007, 11:57 AM	#21 (permalink)
BravesRule22 Basketball Community Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,089	MJ only had Pippen and Rodmanthe rest of those teams were a bunch of scrubs. Horace never did anything without MJ, he was a decent player at best. Here is there championship team from 1996 MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Longley, Wennington, Jud Buchler, Dickey Simpkins, Jason Caffey, Randy Brown, Ron Harper Come on that was the best all around team in 1996 ? I dont think so And here is the Laker team from 2001 Kobe, Shaq, RIck Fox, DFish, Deaven George, Horry, Samiki Walker, Lindsey Hunter, Medvedenko., Mitch Richmond, Brian Shaw, Madsen, Jelani McCoy Their starting 5 outside of SHaq and Kobe is average and their bench is filled with crap __________________ Braves, Knicks, Bucs, Louisville

May 2nd, 2007, 05:51 PM	#23 (permalink)
Captain Fear Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 66	It's kind of hard to choice, and it really depends on the team. If you need the scored you go with Durant, but if you need the big defender, who can score, not like Durant most games, but can still score you need to go Oden. But if I was starting from scratch I'd rather have Oden. He's a powerful force who can and I believe will be a good center in the NBA. Good Defensive centers are hard to come by these days, and it's like Calvin Johnson, when a play this good shows up in a position thats truly needed for a team to win, you have to take him... __________________ "Winning is Everything, It's the Only thing." - 1930's Vanderbilt and UCLA football coach Henry "Red" Saunders

May 22nd, 2007, 08:10 AM	#25 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	Yes, its quite apparent that every team thinks that Oden is either more NBA ready or plays a position that is so much harder to find. Durant might wind up with the better career, but it is so hard to find that quality center. __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

April 23rd, 2007, 01:22 PM	#16 (permalink)
dlb Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,427	Sure he was; he didn't have to face another player as tall as he is. That's the only comparison I'm making to Haywood - looks great against shorter guys, not so great against other big men. My mention of Oden's failure to pull off a win against FL was in response to your assertion that big men win titles. They don't. Quality big men on quality teams win titles. Oden has yet to demonstrate that he is a quality big man. I remember having almost the same discussion a couple of years ago when everyone thought Andrew Bogut was the hands-down top choice in the draft. He wasn't. Oden isn't either.

April 24th, 2007, 04:58 AM	#20 (permalink)
dlb Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,427	There is no doubt that the Shaq/Kobe Lakers were the best team of their time. MJ didn't win squat until Pippen, Grant and other very-good players turned the Bulls into a great team. Basketball is a team game. One player never gets you there on his own.

April 24th, 2007, 07:04 PM	#22 (permalink)
dlb Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,427	Grant was a very good power forward. Scott Williams a very good center. Tony Kukoc was any effective player. Robert Horry had some very good years with the Lakers (as did Kurt Rambis before him). In short, a very good team is not necessarily a team of all-stars, it's a team of players who complement each other well (as Kevin McHale once said of the 1980s Celtics, "We're all role players on this team. Larry's role is to score 40 points a night."). That the 1996 Bulls and 2001 Lakers were the best team's in the NBA was proven in the playoffs. While an inferior team can take a game or get lucky in a three game series, they don't win 5 - 7 games series.

May 22nd, 2007, 08:01 AM	#24 (permalink)
Hellwig Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,708	I guess it is no big shocker but the Bucks GM; Larry Harris has gone on the record and said if the Bucks get the first overall pick he will take Greg Oden.

May 22nd, 2007, 10:21 AM	#26 (permalink)
BravesRule22 Basketball Community Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,089	Durant might end up having the better numbers but Oden might end up having Duncans career Like TMac has better numbers than Duncan but you damn sure would rather have Duncans career over TMacs __________________ Braves, Knicks, Bucs, Louisville

May 22nd, 2007, 04:07 PM	#27 (permalink)
dlb Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,427	I think it's almost certain that Oden will go first. He's tall. NBA GMs can't resist tall. There is also a good chance that Oden will have a bigger impact than Durant. From what I saw of him in college, he's a bit of a stiff, but he's young and funny as it sounds, it really does take a while to figure out how to move that much body around. I expect him to be a mediocre big man for about three years, then he either rises to the elite level or becomes just another journeyman. My guess is that the chances are maybe 60 - 40 in favor of his rising to the elite level. It's a risk any GM would take. Durant, OTOH, is about to meet lots and lots of guys who have as much talent as he does. I'm reminded of a comment Jerry Stackhouse made after his rookie year in the NBA. It went something like this: "You'll be warming up before the game and you'll see some guy do something and say to yourself, 'damn, I thought I was the only guy who could do that.' Then, the game starts, and that guy never gets off the bench."