Should Tootoo be suspended?

[BigBadBlueBird]

Consider myself unconcerned. My comments stand, and remain completely accurate.

[Otter]

Being a Stars Fan I will give you my perspective.....

THe Hit to Modano was a clean hockey hit, Robidas was skating over and before he could even confront Tootoo... he was hit with a gloved fist to the chin. 5 games may have been steep, but a suspension was warranted. Engblom had thought 5 games was about right.



As far as Jim Lites / and his rant about Nashville Organization. If Modano scores that goal in Detroit, Chicago, Colorado.... The Announcement would have been made in the arena... No big deal to me or other Stars fans... but for some reason upset Lites...

[BigBadBlueBird]

I would guess that the comments were related to the hit. The guy just saw one of his players taken out by a coward, and likely wanted to lash out at the Predators in some way. It was woefully unprofessional, but the Predators behaviour - both on and off the ice - is undoubtably a great annoyance to the Stars. Should have used a better forum than the media to express it though.

[bedir than average]

PredDave, a brave man does not fight without warning, without notice. The cowardice on another man's part does not justify another man's cowardice.

The NHL needs casual sports fans and it needs to decide if it wants to be closer to gladitorial combat (which can be popular see Wrestling and Mixed Martial Arts) or closer to the premier sports in North America where the goal is winning, not vengence.

Carmello Anthony got 15-20 games in a same length season for the same act. Five is a rather pathetic attempt to placate the media, but does nothing to address the fact the NHL had the opportunity to once again be part of the "Big Four" of prosports. It is support for this overt violence and cowardice that haunts hockey with TV rating similar to MLS as many families don't want to teach their kids that violence is the just response to violence.

[PredDave]

I respect all of your opinions as long as we keep it civil.

But, I must say that I still disagree with you guys. See this great article below:

The media pile it high - Sean McCormick - Sportsnet.ca

"I've heard more Tootoo forecasts in the last three days than I have weather forecasts. And they both put me in a bad mood.

Five games to Jordin Tootoo is excessive and if Nashville fans want to blame anyone, blame the media. When exactly did it become our job to predict suspensions?

By committing his "crime" on Saturday night, Jordin gave every card carrying media member of the Canadian sports media two full days to make a mountain out of this molehill. There isn’t a website, powerpoll or hockey panel worth it's weight in carbonfibre that didn’t beat this incident to death over the last 48 hours. And in beating it to death, we sensationalized this incident into something that it just isn't. I saw a television poll Sunday night that asked viewers if Tootoo deserved more than 10 games, and that was just the tip of this iceberg.

Jordin Tootoo put a clean hit on Mike Modano. Then decided that the best defence was a good offence, and punched his would-be attacker in the face (with a gloved fist). This is not to be confused with a sucker punch. A sucker punch is punching when the opponent is not expecting to get punched. If Stephane Robidas was not expecting to get punched when he skated full throttle into a man with 104 penalty minutes under his belt, then Robidas needs to get his head checked for more than a concussion this week.

In sensationalizing this story, and making judicial predictions, the media promoted a sensational judicial response from the NHL, and got one. Make no mistake, Colin Campbell doesn't give a rat's ass what we have to say about anything, including his league. But in crafting a suspension, he is, essentially crafting a public response on league letterhead, and if the NHL didn't come down hard, then it would have been perceived as not coming down at all.

The last two days truly was, March Madness - complete with useless predictions."

[bedir than average]

punched his would-be attacker in the face

The doctrine of pre-emption is a valid "response" in a sport?

[PredDave]

Tootoo Suspension: Too Harsh? | INSIDE HOCKEY

another great article!

===================snippets from the article======================

"Trying to shed the stigma of a barbaric league, the disciplinarians in the “new NHL” have ruled, and Jordin Tootoo has been suspended five games for protecting himself and having a lucky swing. When a player skates hard into your fist, the outcome is inevitable. Stephan Robidas' bad timing led to him being knocked unconscious late in the third period of Saturday night's 3-2 win by the Predators in Nashville.

After the clean hit on Modano, Stephan Robidas, Trevor Daley, and Marty Turco were skating with voracity and intense hatred towards Tootoo; all three were looking to make Tootoo pay for checking the ex-captain. In less than a second after the hit, Tootoo literally picked himself up from the ice, caught a glimpse of the Stars' players charging towards him, and he instinctively launched a cannon of a straight-armed punch.

Had Tootoo been pushed by any of the three combatants, he would have certainly been driven into the boards as he was in a vulnerable position. Tootoo would have missed the next five games whether he was suspended or suffered a concussion."

....

"The new NHL needs to win over more fans to compete with the other big leagues, so this suspension should not come as a surprise. Modano's second goal of the game came on the ensuing power-play after the Tootoo-Robidas incident. Modano now has 503 NHL goals and has moved into first place for American-born players.

Tootoo helped Modano achieve this record by giving the Stars' power-play the fuel it needed for a score. What did Modano give Tootoo? A one-handed slash to the back after the play and several chippy slashes throughout the game.

Ultimately, the big question is where to draw the line of protecting oneself versus allowing other players to attack without any repercussion."

[bedir than average]

So in your mind all violence should be responded to with violence?

In your mind the NHL does not have to worry about regaining the popularity it once had?
In your mind the referees aren't responsible for adjucating the ice but instead it is merely up to the players?

Should the opposing team get to call offsides and icing as well?

[PredDave]

Originally Posted by bedir than average

So in your mind all violence should be responded to with violence?

In your mind the NHL does not have to worry about regaining the popularity it once had?
In your mind the referees aren't responsible for adjucating the ice but instead it is merely up to the players?

Should the opposing team get to call offsides and icing as well?

(1) No, I am not advocating "headhunting" or violence for the sake of violence. I do believe a player should be able to protect himself without fear of suspension (sure, you could argue that Tootoo was being a little overreactive in his swinging, I will give you that.).

I do not agree with sucker punches (and the Tootoo - Robidas incident was not a sucker punch for the 1000th time). I am totally opposed to what Scott Nichol did to Jaroslav Spacek --- that was a sucker punch and was reprehensible!

(2) I am all for the NHL regaining the popularity it once "may" have had, but I just don't see it happening with the current lack of marketing and the current leadership that is running the "new NHL". It is failing miserably... the game is by far the most exciting product to watch, but I'm afraid Football, Baseball, and Basketball seem to promote their sports better. I would love for hockey to get the same respect as the other 3 major sports.

(3) I think the referees should enforce the rules, but they are so caught up in this year's penalty (i.e., Hooking) that they miss all the little ticky tacky stickwork which causes players to boil over and take matters into their own hands.

(4) Don't patronize me.

NOTE: Let me state for the record that I DO NOT like Tootoo... but I do not think he should get the guillotine for trying to keep himself healthy. You guys are focusing on Robidas' injury. If Tootoo threw that punch 100 times, he couldn't have been so lucky to strike Robidas on the chin more than once... it was a lucky blow! or unlucky if you are Robidas. He was trying to prevent nastiness against himself.

Let me ask you this: did you watch the ENTIRE game or did you only watch the YouTube version of the "play" with Robidas and Tootoo? If you had seen the ENTIRE game, you would see that this was a boiling over event due to the referees losing control of the game. They let both sides get away with atrocious penalties throughout the game --- this is not acceptable. Players will take matters into their own hands if the refs don't control the game.

Have a great day!

[LemaireisGOD]

Does posting 4 times in a row boost your argument? I don't think so. Tootoo is a coward; he routinely skates away from challenges by bigger fighters. If he's going to run star players he should step on and accept those challenges and if he gets his a$$ beat then perhaps he'll learn not to run the star players.

Messier, Esposito and Jones say so then its gospel? Riiight. How many of these guys are still in the league? ZERO. How many of them would want a suspension if they're teamate just got sucker punched...ALL OF THEM. They're simply trying to defend a little puke they feel sorry for, its pity...not a true defense of his actions. You just said it yourself...OVERZEALOUSLY defended himself. Overzealous = SUSPENSION!

As for Modano being dirty? Riiight. I hate Bucky as much as anyone, but he's not a dirty player. Tkachuk, Chelios...most definately dirty. Yet I've seen Tkachuk suspended for things he's done. He earned a nice suspension when he cross checked Wes Walz in the throat a few years ago.

You talk about the reason star players usually avoid lengthy suspensions while role players earn longer ones...that's not exactly difficult to understand why that is.

1. Star players are more important to their respective teams and if they're injured from the result of their actions the greater the affect it is on the other team. Some worthless 3rd & 4th liner hurts a 1st liner with a dirty play...why shouldn't he get a lengthy suspension. The 3rd or 4th liners absense is far less likely to affect his team the same way a 1st liner's would. You mentioned Ovechkin's hit...while I definately thought it was suspension worthy it didn't end up in the result of injury. Call it reactive justice all you want...but that's what suspensions ostensibly are.

2. Let's face it...many people come to watch star players on the ice...not to watch Tootoo's dirty plays. Its plays like the one we've seen from Simon, Tootoo and Bertuzzi that hurt the league's image; and think about it, for many sports fans in the U.S. the only hockey play they probably will see all season will be Tootoo's sucker punch or Simon's stick swing. Not just for the players' safety, but the players now have a vested interest in the financial state of the game. The game needs to attract more fans, and crap like that won't bring in a lot of new viewers.

[PredDave]

Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD

Does posting 4 times in a row boost your argument? I don't think so. Tootoo is a coward; he routinely skates away from challenges by bigger fighters. If he's going to run star players he should step on and accept those challenges and if he gets his a$$ beat then perhaps he'll learn not to run the star players.

Why are you griping about post counts? Tootoo's character is not on trial here. I personally don't care if he is viewed as a coward. One of his many roles as an agitator is to draw penalties by getting under player's skin. Looks like he's gotten under yours.

You said "if he's going to run star players", etc. Last I checked, Robidas was NOT a star player. I know you are not referring to his CLEAN, L-E-G-A-L check on Modano where both of them fell to the ice. That was not even a classic hard hit. It was simply a body check --- are you trying to lobby for removal of checks in hockey?

Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD

Messier, Esposito and Jones say so then its gospel? Riiight. How many of these guys are still in the league? ZERO. How many of them would want a suspension if they're teamate just got sucker punched...ALL OF THEM. They're simply trying to defend a little puke they feel sorry for, its pity...not a true defense of his actions. You just said it yourself...OVERZEALOUSLY defended himself. Overzealous = SUSPENSION!

I put a lot more creedence on what Messier, Espo, and Jones say than what I read on internet message boards. Face it, you and I are not hockey players. I don't care that they are retired.

Why do you keep referring to Nichol's sucker punch on Spacek? That happened months ago! I know you are not talking about Tootoo because HE DID NOT THROW A SUCKER PUNCH!!! I strongly doubt those retired players have any pity or need to defend Tootoo's actions. That is silly.

I said quote, "(sure, you could argue that Tootoo was being a little overreactive in his swinging, I will give you that.)" but I was being nice and wanted to "throw you guys a bone" or an olive branch to help us agree on something... but I still don't believe a suspension was necessary. And I never said "Overzealous".

Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD

As for Modano being dirty? Riiight. I hate Bucky as much as anyone, but he's not a dirty player. Tkachuk, Chelios...most definately dirty. Yet I've seen Tkachuk suspended for things he's done. He earned a nice suspension when he cross checked Wes Walz in the throat a few years ago.

You talk about the reason star players usually avoid lengthy suspensions while role players earn longer ones...that's not exactly difficult to understand why that is.

1. Star players are more important to their respective teams and if they're injured from the result of their actions the greater the affect it is on the other team. Some worthless 3rd & 4th liner hurts a 1st liner with a dirty play...why shouldn't he get a lengthy suspension. The 3rd or 4th liners absense is far less likely to affect his team the same way a 1st liner's would. You mentioned Ovechkin's hit...while I definately thought it was suspension worthy it didn't end up in the result of injury. Call it reactive justice all you want...but that's what suspensions ostensibly are.

There was no dirty play. Tootoo was not suspended for his check on Modano, but rather his proactive punch on some 3rd pairing d-man that was about to jump him. I don't agree with suspensions for the sake of injury, but rather suspensions due to intent.

Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD

2. Let's face it...many people come to watch star players on the ice...not to watch Tootoo's dirty plays. Its plays like the one we've seen from Simon, Tootoo and Bertuzzi that hurt the league's image; and think about it, for many sports fans in the U.S. the only hockey play they probably will see all season will be Tootoo's sucker punch or Simon's stick swing. Not just for the players' safety, but the players now have a vested interest in the financial state of the game. The game needs to attract more fans, and crap like that won't bring in a lot of new viewers.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I don't go to the game to watch Tootoo. I could care less about him. And you cannot compare Tootoo's incident to Bertuzzi / Simon / McSorley incidents --- its apples to oranges, not the same in the least.

I agree we need to attract more fans, but by the media making a huge (negative) issue about Tootoo, it does not help the NHL...

I'm finished. I have nothing more to say about this....

Have a nice week!

[Nazzy03]

The five game suspension given to Tootoo is the prfect amount. Its not like Robidas was coming in to give Tootoo a hug or a high five for the "clean" check on Modano.

[Laperriere22]

I watched this game live. Tootoo's hit was clean on Modano and I don't have any issue with Tootoo the player. He's a guy that has to play on the edge. Tootoo isn't a coward either; he's fought a number of times every season. He's not a Tyson Nash, a Ville Nieminen, a Sean Avery or one of the Ruutus. If I'm an average player (which I am at my level of hockey) and I'm playing against someone that's pure skill and speed, I'm definitely going to rough him up because 9 times out of 10, that will get the skill player off his game and help my team win. Tootoo's role is a valuable one and Tootoo has every right to run over a player like Modano.

Modano's stick swing is a non-issue. With the padding pros carry and the amount of force actually involved with the stick swing, there's nothing to it. It's a nothing incident. Modano is a soft player and that's how soft players generally react to getting run over. A double standard has always existed for the star player and I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. That stick swing was lame and would barely cause an abrasion. To argue for that being a suspension borders on being a completely pathetic point of view.

I don't agree with anyone that says Robidas should have expected that punch. Robidas was being a solid teammate and frankly, the charging call was even pathetic. He didn't even touch Tootoo and had no reason to expect a straight punch right up the pipe. Was he initiating a confrontation? Absolutely. Does that mean you should be coldcocked because you're skating at someone? No, it doesn't. He had no reason to expect that punch. Period.

It was a stupid play on Tootoo's part; he had no reason to throw that punch. Self-defense is a garbage argument because we are talking about hockey, not reality. The reality is that in hockey, there's only one guy that's going to punch you as hard as he can when your back is turned. That is Bertuzzi. Everybody else is going to skate into you and knock you down or start sparring with you (light sparring at that). Tootoo had nothing to fear there. Throwing your whole body into a punch while your glove is still glued on your hand lacks justification in this case. He deserved the suspension and should have been ejected for a match penalty instead of the weak double minor he actually got. Because that's what that play really is, an intent to injure. It's not logical or practical to expect that kind of punch in that situation. Anybody that does anything similar to another player is going to injure that player every time.

And I'm very much pro violence and physicality. Hockey is held back by the media and the ESPN's pisspoor and ignorant coverage of it here in the States; always has. The violence factor has little to do with the sport's popularity. That's just indignant kool-aid being spread around by sportswriters lacking testosteroene.

[TheFixer]

Tootoo deserves 5 games, that's for sure. You can't just blindside someone with a sucker punch. But people need to stop acting like Robidas was coming in with his hands up holding tea cups to offer Tootoo a nice spot of Earl Gray and a chance to talk things over.

Robidas was coming in high and fast for a crosscheck, away from the play, in retaliation for a clean hit on a previously-injured star player. Understandable? Yes. But he was NOT coming in to "bear hug" or "facewash" as some around the sports sites have been trying to say.

That said, Tootoo should have had the guts to take the hit, not sucker punch him in the head. If Robidas hadn't been coming in for a blindside, late crosscheck up high, I'd say the suspension should have been closer to 9 or 10. If he hadn't been injured, Tootoo would probably have received 2 or 3. But that's because Campbell is an idiot when it comes to suspensions.

[Laperriere22]

Originally Posted by TheFixer

Tootoo deserves 5 games, that's for sure. You can't just blindside someone with a sucker punch. But people need to stop acting like Robidas was coming in with his hands up holding tea cups to offer Tootoo a nice spot of Earl Gray and a chance to talk things over.

Robidas was coming in high and fast for a crosscheck, away from the play, in retaliation for a clean hit on a previously-injured star player. Understandable? Yes. But he was NOT coming in to "bear hug" or "facewash" as some around the sports sites have been trying to say.

That said, Tootoo should have had the guts to take the hit, not sucker punch him in the head. If Robidas hadn't been coming in for a blindside, late crosscheck up high, I'd say the suspension should have been closer to 9 or 10. If he hadn't been injured, Tootoo would probably have received 2 or 3. But that's because Campbell is an idiot when it comes to suspensions.

Disagree. There's nothing in the play that suggests what Robidas was going to do. You can speculate just like I can or anybody else, but there's no evidence of what Robidas' actual intent was. There's no justification for Tootoo's actions.