Vick Indicted - Bad News Kennel: Conspiracy or Worse? - Page 4

dlb · July 17th, 2007, 07:07 PM

No doubt he'll play again; Kobe Bryant raped a woman and was back in time for the season opener.

DiamondDave · July 17th, 2007, 07:11 PM

The key is, in terms of NFL suspension, is where this kind of crime fits in with other crimes... is it worse than spousal abuse? Worse than theft? Worse than a weapons charge?... where does dog fighting and animal cruelty really sit in terms....

That in combination with his 'superstar' status will be the determining factors... we're not talking about Pac Man who may have talent, or Chris Henry who is a 3rd string WR on his squad... We're talking about one of the marquee popular players in this sport...

I don't envy the commish on his task for this one

noetsi · July 17th, 2007, 07:16 PM

Does the NFL usually assign penalities before someone is convicted of a crime?

DiamondDave · July 17th, 2007, 07:25 PM

Yes... with the new rules set down, they can

noetsi · July 17th, 2007, 07:32 PM

A system of justice that Gul Dukat would rejoice in...

DiamondDave · July 17th, 2007, 07:34 PM

NFL Players Association - Rules and Regulations - Conduct Policy

the rules

noetsi · July 17th, 2007, 07:39 PM

I was not questioning that they can do it. Only the morality of punishing someone before any guilt has been determined.

bedir than average · July 17th, 2007, 07:42 PM

The NFL just needs to believe that the player made poor enough choices that it detracts for the game.

noetsi · July 17th, 2007, 07:53 PM

But legally it has not been proven that any choice has been made

bedir than average · July 17th, 2007, 07:54 PM

The NFLPA and the NFL have agreed all players are subject to the agreement of the Unioin and the Owners.

djwhokid · July 17th, 2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtur88

The fundamental principle in the US is the presumption of innocence. Every person has a right to be be presumed innocent, even of fraud. This has been hugely eroded.

FREE VICK.

bedir than average · July 17th, 2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

About eight young dogs were put to death at the Surry County home after they were found not ready to fight in April 2007, the indictment said. They were killed "by hanging, drowning and/or slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."

The indictment also outlined a rough chronology:

• In March 2003, after a pit bull from Bad Newz Kennels lost in a fight, it said Peace consulted with Vick about the losing dog's condition, then executed it by wetting it with water and electrocuting it;

bedir than average · July 17th, 2007, 08:59 PM

Read the indictment here

bigheadache · July 17th, 2007, 09:23 PM

The NFL is a business and not a court of law. As such, innocent until proven guilty does not apply. In most states, a felony indictment is enough for the employer to suspend an employee without pay and even cut ties with the employee completely. In this case, the CBA may allow Vick to continue to play while awaiting the results of the court case. Goodell has some leeway as we've seen with Jones, Henry and Johnson. We'll see how it applies in this case.

I do wonder what convictions will mean for Vick. Is he facing possible prison time and how much. Fines probably won't mean much to Vick. I'm also wondering if he has made any profit off the venture and if Tax evasion charges could be added.

domat · July 18th, 2007, 09:18 AM

Thats just sick. It would be a shame if a good bit of prison time is not sentenced if found guilty.

July 17th, 2007, 07:11 PM	#47 (permalink)
DiamondDave Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MD, on the Potomac River Posts: 5,390	The key is, in terms of NFL suspension, is where this kind of crime fits in with other crimes... is it worse than spousal abuse? Worse than theft? Worse than a weapons charge?... where does dog fighting and animal cruelty really sit in terms.... That in combination with his 'superstar' status will be the determining factors... we're not talking about Pac Man who may have talent, or Chris Henry who is a 3rd string WR on his squad... We're talking about one of the marquee popular players in this sport... I don't envy the commish on his task for this one __________________ Reagan in 08... Even though he's dead, he's the better choice! Superdelegates - Because even the Democratic party knows it's base is too stupid to make really important decisions.

July 17th, 2007, 07:25 PM	#49 (permalink)
DiamondDave Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MD, on the Potomac River Posts: 5,390	Yes... with the new rules set down, they can __________________ Reagan in 08... Even though he's dead, he's the better choice! Superdelegates - Because even the Democratic party knows it's base is too stupid to make really important decisions.

July 17th, 2007, 07:34 PM	#51 (permalink)
DiamondDave Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MD, on the Potomac River Posts: 5,390	NFL Players Association - Rules and Regulations - Conduct Policy the rules __________________ Reagan in 08... Even though he's dead, he's the better choice! Superdelegates - Because even the Democratic party knows it's base is too stupid to make really important decisions.

July 17th, 2007, 07:42 PM	#53 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	The NFL just needs to believe that the player made poor enough choices that it detracts for the game. __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

July 17th, 2007, 07:54 PM	#55 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	The NFLPA and the NFL have agreed all players are subject to the agreement of the Unioin and the Owners. __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

July 17th, 2007, 07:07 PM	#46 (permalink)
dlb Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,514	No doubt he'll play again; Kobe Bryant raped a woman and was back in time for the season opener.

July 17th, 2007, 07:16 PM	#48 (permalink)
noetsi Legend Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 17,464	Does the NFL usually assign penalities before someone is convicted of a crime?

July 17th, 2007, 07:32 PM	#50 (permalink)
noetsi Legend Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 17,464	A system of justice that Gul Dukat would rejoice in...

July 17th, 2007, 07:39 PM	#52 (permalink)
noetsi Legend Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 17,464	I was not questioning that they can do it. Only the morality of punishing someone before any guilt has been determined.

July 17th, 2007, 07:53 PM	#54 (permalink)
noetsi Legend Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 17,464	But legally it has not been proven that any choice has been made

July 17th, 2007, 08:59 PM	#58 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	Read the indictment here __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

July 17th, 2007, 09:23 PM	#59 (permalink)
bigheadache Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roswell, NM Posts: 952	The NFL is a business and not a court of law. As such, innocent until proven guilty does not apply. In most states, a felony indictment is enough for the employer to suspend an employee without pay and even cut ties with the employee completely. In this case, the CBA may allow Vick to continue to play while awaiting the results of the court case. Goodell has some leeway as we've seen with Jones, Henry and Johnson. We'll see how it applies in this case. I do wonder what convictions will mean for Vick. Is he facing possible prison time and how much. Fines probably won't mean much to Vick. I'm also wondering if he has made any profit off the venture and if Tax evasion charges could be added.

July 18th, 2007, 09:18 AM	#60 (permalink)
domat Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 324	Thats just sick. It would be a shame if a good bit of prison time is not sentenced if found guilty.