Top 5 Football players of all time (Question)

[JoeCoolMan24]

I am not asking for your guy's top 5 players. I am merely asking what you think of "my friend" who gave me his top 3. I am wondering what your thoughts are on his top 3 list. This is his exact post on another forum.

1. Walter Payton
2. Ladainian Tomlinson
3. Jerry Rice

LT... wow. just wow.

Any thoughts?

[DiamondDave]

Players....

Hmmm... usually hard to do this without breaking it down into positions.... but I will have to give it a shot

1) Jerry Rice - Nobody said mastery, domination, and production for a LONG period of time like Jerry
2) Dan Marino - Besides not having a SB ring, what else could a QB do?
3) Jim Thorpe - Yes, I know not many stats or film, but one helatious athlete that dominated every sport he ever played
4) Dick Butkus - Career cut short, but the poster boy of tough play linebacker who dominated the game and whom every offense avoided
5) Johnny Unitas - TD 47 straight games, utter domination of the position for years, and was there ever a cooler character under the gun (except possibly Montana).

As for your buddy's top 3.... I think it is just a tiny bit too soon for Tomlinson.... I thik he is the greatest RB today, but still a little ways to go to be 'better' than Sanders, Payton, or Brown.... Payton is a good choice, and I definately think he is either top 15 or top 10, but I just cannot put him top 5, personally

[CalSports1]

I have a Poll up for Best RB under 'LT simply the Best Thread' ...all Time list would have to Include Jerry Rice, though number 1 is a tough call, because the eras are different...Johnny Unitas is a good call in a top 5 list, and Jim Brown should be up there is well since most believe him to be Best RB of all time!
LaDanian Tomlinson is my favorite current RB and player since I am lucky enough to see him week in and week out and he never ceases to amaze me since he catches, runs , and even his throws are top-notch..CalSports1

[kflo]

LT is certainly arguably top 5, but it aint tomlinson.

[steve30084]

It's too soon to consider him at #2.

[Nyi28nhl]

It's too soon to call Tomlinson the greatest Runningback of All-Time, let alone in the top three of NFL players of all time.

As far as RB's go, I still put Payton, Smith, Sanders, Martin, Bettis, etc. over him. Longevity plays a big role. Chances are, by the end of his career, he can surpass all those guys in my head - but for now this season is amazing - but just this season. All-time is a career, not just one season. As of now Tomlinson still has an incomplete career.

[DiamondDave]

Almost choked on my coffee... Martin and Bettis??? I could have seen if you had put Dickerson, OJ, or Dorsett

Longevity ADDS to it all... but longevity itself cannot be a criteria... I think domination or being considered best or 2nd best in your generation has to be a key... Bettis, nor Martin, were the best in their era... I personally could not put someone near the top who's yards per carry average is under 4.0 (Martin and Bettis)... That's almost as bad as putting Terry Allen and Eddie George as to 20 best rushers of all time because they're in the top 20 in Yards for a career....

[Nyi28nhl]

Originally Posted by DiamondDave

Almost choked on my coffee... Martin and Bettis??? I could have seen if you had put Dickerson, OJ, or Dorsett

Longevity ADDS to it all... but longevity itself cannot be a criteria... I think domination or being considered best or 2nd best in your generation has to be a key... Bettis, nor Martin, were the best in their era... I personally could not put someone near the top who's yards per carry average is under 4.0 (Martin and Bettis)... That's almost as bad as putting Terry Allen and Eddie George as to 20 best rushers of all time because they're in the top 20 in Yards for a career....

Dickerson, OJ, Dorsett, and Brown all fall in there too. I knew I would forget some big ones, so I added the etc.


In Martin's Defense, had he not injured his knee he would've beat Sanders' record of 10 straight seasons with 1,000 yards rushing. Instead, he tied him finishing with 700+ yards last year in his eleventh - put on IR with 5 or so games to go. He's also led the league in rushing.. and finished second to Priest Holmes a couple of times.

[GerryInCS]

1. Walter Payton
2. Jim Brown
3. Dick Butkus
4. Jerry Rice
5. Fran Tarkenton or Y.A. Tittle

[DiamondDave]

Originally Posted by Nyi28nhl

Dickerson, OJ, Dorsett, and Brown all fall in there too. I knew I would forget some big ones, so I added the etc.


In Martin's Defense, had he not injured his knee he would've beat Sanders' record of 10 straight seasons with 1,000 yards rushing. Instead, he tied him finishing with 700+ yards last year in his eleventh - put on IR with 5 or so games to go. He's also led the league in rushing.. and finished second to Priest Holmes a couple of times.

Not saying (I cannot believe I am saying this) that I would keep Martin out of the HoF because of his accomplishments.... but I would not even consider him a top 20 back, all time... He is a complier, like Art Monk. Something to be said for being a workhorse, but that is not everything.... I am not impressed with 1000 yards rushing in a season any more (62.5 ypg). We have part timers who still make that make in the modern game. I am more of a fan of 1300 yards in a season as a benchmark (81.25 ypg), but IMHO even that needs to be combined with looking at TD and YPC....

[SouthernPitbull]

Lt is not #2 there are lists of players who were the best at their positions lifetimes longer than LT has thus far...maybe in 10 yrs he can touch the top 5-10.

ID take riggins or brown over any rb...abuse the hell out of the dline...

I will say though LT is a beast and is well on his way to the top BUT only time will tell!

[LaxD]

Originally Posted by steve30084

It's too soon to consider him at #2.

I doubt I could even consider him in my top-15 to be honest.

[EaglesFan]

Rank	Name	                Games  	Carries	Yards	Yds/Game  YPC	Rec.   Rec. Yds	 Yds/Game  YPR	 Scrimmage/Game	  TDs	TDs/Game  Touches per TD
1	LaDainian Tomlinson*	92	1988	8788	95.52	  4.42	394    2871      31.21	   7.29	 126.73	          109	1.18	  21.85	
2	Jim Brown	        118	2359	12312	104.34	  5.22	262    2499      21.18	   9.54	 125.52		  126	1.07	  20.80	
3	Edgerrin James*	        109	2466	10151	93.13	  4.12	391    3044      27.93	   7.79	 121.06		   79	0.72	  36.16	
4	Barry Sanders	        153	3062	15269	99.80	  4.99	352    2921      19.09	   8.30	 118.89		  109	0.71	  31.32	
5	Walter Payton	        190	3838	16726	88.03	  4.36	492    4538      23.88	   9.22	 111.92		  125	0.66	  34.64	

6	Terrell Davis	        81	1655	7607	93.91     4.60	169    1280      15.80	   7.57	 109.72	           65	0.80	  28.06	
7	Marshall Faulk*       	176	2836	12279	69.77	  4.33	767    6875      39.06	   8.96	 108.83	          136	0.77	  26.49	
8	Fred Taylor*	        110	2053	9450	85.91	  4.60	260    2179      19.81	   8.38	 105.72	           63	0.57	  36.71	
9	Eric Dickerson	        146	2996	13259	90.82	  4.43	281    2137      14.64	   7.60	 105.45	           96	0.66	  34.14	
10	Curtis Martin*       	168	3518	14101	83.93	  4.01	484    3329      19.82	   6.88	 103.75	          100	0.60	  40.02	

11	Ricky Watters	        144	2622	10643	73.91	  4.06	467    4248      29.50	   9.10	 103.41	           91	0.63	  33.95	
12	Priest Holmes	        108	1734	8035	74.40	  4.63	334    2945      27.27	   8.82	 101.67	           94	0.87	  22.00	
13	Jamal Lewis*	        88	1756	7546	85.75 	  4.30	156    1327      15.08	   8.51	 100.83	           45	0.51	  42.49	
14	Tiki Barber*	        151	2158	10068	66.68	  4.67	575    5118      33.89	   8.90	 100.57	           63	0.42	  43.38	
15	O.J. Simpson	        135	2404	11236	83.23	  4.67	203    2142      15.87	  10.55	 99.10	           75	0.56	  34.76	

16	Emmitt Smith	        226	4409	18355	81.22	  4.16	515    3224      14.27	   6.26	 95.48		  175	0.77	  28.14	
17	Shaun Alexander*        103	1887	8408	81.63     4.46	197    1419      13.78	   7.20	 95.41		  103	1.00	  20.23	
18	Tony Dorsett	        173	2936	12739	73.64	  4.34	398    3554      20.54	   8.93	 94.18	           90	0.52	  37.04	
19	Gale Sayers	        68	991	4956	72.88     5.00	112    1307      19.22	  11.67	 92.10		   48	0.71	  22.98	
20	Thurman Thomas       	182	2877	12074	66.34	  4.20	472    4458      24.49	   9.44	 90.84		   88	0.48	  38.06	

21	Eddie George	        142	2865	10441	73.53	  3.64	268    2227      15.68	   8.31	 89.21		   78	0.55	  40.17	
22	Earl Campbell	        115	2187	9407	81.80	  4.30	121     806       7.01	   6.66	 88.81		   74	0.64	  31.19	
23	Warrick Dunn*	        147	2210	9318	63.39	  4.22	420    3726      25.35	   8.87	 88.73		   57	0.39	  46.14	
24	Corey Dillon*	        147	2576	11083	75.39	  4.30	237    1834      12.48	   7.74	 87.87		   86	0.59	  32.71	
25	Franco Harris	        173	2949	12120	70.06	  4.11	307    2287      13.22	   7.45	 83.28		  100	0.58	  32.56	

26	Marcus Allen	        221	3022	12243	55.40	  4.05	587    5411      24.48	   9.22	 79.88		  144	0.65	  25.06	
27	Jerome Bettis	        192	3479	13662	71.16	  3.93	200    1449       7.55	   7.25	 78.70		   94	0.49	  39.14	
28	Jim Taylor	        132	1941	8597	65.13	  4.43	225    1756      13.30	   7.80	 78.43		   93	0.70	  23.29	
29	Terry Allen	        132	2152	8614	65.26	  4.00	204    1601      12.13	   7.85	 77.39		   79	0.60	  29.82	
30	Steve Van Buren       	83	1320	5860	70.60	  4.44	 45     523       6.30	  11.62	 76.90		   72	0.87	  18.96	

31	John Riggins	        175	2916	11352	64.87	  3.89	250    2090      11.94	   8.36	 76.81		  116	0.66	  27.29	
32	Ottis Anderson	        182	2562	10273	56.45	  4.01	376    3062      16.82	   8.14	 73.27		   86	0.47	  34.16	
33	Larry Csonka	        146	1891	8081	55.35	  4.27	106     820       5.62	   7.74	 60.97		   68	0.47	  29.37	

*=Active
HOF Players are bold/italicized
Red = Ranks First
Green = Ranks Second
Blue = Ranks Third

In case some people are wondering where players rank statistically, here's a list of some notable RBs. I don't understand the lack of respect for Curtis Martin. I agree he's not a top 5-10 back, but to say there are 20 better than him is a little harsh. Dorsett, Dickerson, Brown, Payton, Sanders, Simpson, Campbell and E. Smith rank ahead of Martin and you could make a case for some of the others on the list, but I wouldn't think he would fall to 21st.

It's too early for me to place an all-time opinion on Tomlinson. I'd prefer to wait another 4-5 years before making comparisions with him.

[CalSports1]

LT (Lawrence Taylor) is 'Arguably' Top 5 in NY Football history..Gifford, Namath, Tittle, and Huff come to mind in addition to Martin and Riggins..
As far as the 'Real' LT, he gets very little respect..already having become the 2nd back to get 1000 receiving yards and 1000 passing yards in 1 season, he now has the more notable Touchdowns record...I Liken what Tomlinson means to RBs as to what Jerry Rice is to Receivers as LT looks to break Hornung's all-Time Scoring Record this week..Martin or Bettis, please...CalSports1

[DiamondDave]

Namath... you just lost ALL respect IMHO... the guy is in the HoF strictly because of SB3.... nothing more.. he is one of the WORST QB's to ever be remembered or 'honored'......
50.1% career comp% - CRAP
173TD 220INT (2 years with more TD than INT)

IMHO Namath should be REMOVED from the hall


...

Originally Posted by EaglesFan

Rank	Name	                Games  	Carries	Yards	Yds/Game  YPC	Rec.   Rec. Yds	 Yds/Game  YPR	 Scrimmage/Game	  TDs	TDs/Game  Touches per TD
1	LaDainian Tomlinson*	92	1988	8788	95.52	  4.42	394    2871      31.21	   7.29	 126.73	          109	1.18	  21.85	
2	Jim Brown	        118	2359	12312	104.34	  5.22	262    2499      21.18	   9.54	 125.52		  126	1.07	  20.80	
3	Edgerrin James*	        109	2466	10151	93.13	  4.12	391    3044      27.93	   7.79	 121.06		   79	0.72	  36.16	
4	Barry Sanders	        153	3062	15269	99.80	  4.99	352    2921      19.09	   8.30	 118.89		  109	0.71	  31.32	
5	Walter Payton	        190	3838	16726	88.03	  4.36	492    4538      23.88	   9.22	 111.92		  125	0.66	  34.64	

6	Terrell Davis	        81	1655	7607	93.91     4.60	169    1280      15.80	   7.57	 109.72	           65	0.80	  28.06	
7	Marshall Faulk*       	176	2836	12279	69.77	  4.33	767    6875      39.06	   8.96	 108.83	          136	0.77	  26.49	
8	Fred Taylor*	        110	2053	9450	85.91	  4.60	260    2179      19.81	   8.38	 105.72	           63	0.57	  36.71	
9	Eric Dickerson	        146	2996	13259	90.82	  4.43	281    2137      14.64	   7.60	 105.45	           96	0.66	  34.14	
10	Curtis Martin*       	168	3518	14101	83.93	  4.01	484    3329      19.82	   6.88	 103.75	          100	0.60	  40.02	

11	Ricky Watters	        144	2622	10643	73.91	  4.06	467    4248      29.50	   9.10	 103.41	           91	0.63	  33.95	
12	Priest Holmes	        108	1734	8035	74.40	  4.63	334    2945      27.27	   8.82	 101.67	           94	0.87	  22.00	
13	Jamal Lewis*	        88	1756	7546	85.75 	  4.30	156    1327      15.08	   8.51	 100.83	           45	0.51	  42.49	
14	Tiki Barber*	        151	2158	10068	66.68	  4.67	575    5118      33.89	   8.90	 100.57	           63	0.42	  43.38	
15	O.J. Simpson	        135	2404	11236	83.23	  4.67	203    2142      15.87	  10.55	 99.10	           75	0.56	  34.76	

16	Emmitt Smith	        226	4409	18355	81.22	  4.16	515    3224      14.27	   6.26	 95.48		  175	0.77	  28.14	
17	Shaun Alexander*        103	1887	8408	81.63     4.46	197    1419      13.78	   7.20	 95.41		  103	1.00	  20.23	
18	Tony Dorsett	        173	2936	12739	73.64	  4.34	398    3554      20.54	   8.93	 94.18	           90	0.52	  37.04	
19	Gale Sayers	        68	991	4956	72.88     5.00	112    1307      19.22	  11.67	 92.10		   48	0.71	  22.98	
20	Thurman Thomas       	182	2877	12074	66.34	  4.20	472    4458      24.49	   9.44	 90.84		   88	0.48	  38.06	

21	Eddie George	        142	2865	10441	73.53	  3.64	268    2227      15.68	   8.31	 89.21		   78	0.55	  40.17	
22	Earl Campbell	        115	2187	9407	81.80	  4.30	121     806       7.01	   6.66	 88.81		   74	0.64	  31.19	
23	Warrick Dunn*	        147	2210	9318	63.39	  4.22	420    3726      25.35	   8.87	 88.73		   57	0.39	  46.14	
24	Corey Dillon*	        147	2576	11083	75.39	  4.30	237    1834      12.48	   7.74	 87.87		   86	0.59	  32.71	
25	Franco Harris	        173	2949	12120	70.06	  4.11	307    2287      13.22	   7.45	 83.28		  100	0.58	  32.56	

26	Marcus Allen	        221	3022	12243	55.40	  4.05	587    5411      24.48	   9.22	 79.88		  144	0.65	  25.06	
27	Jerome Bettis	        192	3479	13662	71.16	  3.93	200    1449       7.55	   7.25	 78.70		   94	0.49	  39.14	
28	Jim Taylor	        132	1941	8597	65.13	  4.43	225    1756      13.30	   7.80	 78.43		   93	0.70	  23.29	
29	Terry Allen	        132	2152	8614	65.26	  4.00	204    1601      12.13	   7.85	 77.39		   79	0.60	  29.82	
30	Steve Van Buren       	83	1320	5860	70.60	  4.44	 45     523       6.30	  11.62	 76.90		   72	0.87	  18.96	

31	John Riggins	        175	2916	11352	64.87	  3.89	250    2090      11.94	   8.36	 76.81		  116	0.66	  27.29	
32	Ottis Anderson	        182	2562	10273	56.45	  4.01	376    3062      16.82	   8.14	 73.27		   86	0.47	  34.16	
33	Larry Csonka	        146	1891	8081	55.35	  4.27	106     820       5.62	   7.74	 60.97		   68	0.47	  29.37	

*=Active
HOF Players are bold/italicized
Red = Ranks First
Green = Ranks Second
Blue = Ranks Third

In case some people are wondering where players rank statistically, here's a list of some notable RBs. I don't understand the lack of respect for Curtis Martin. I agree he's not a top 5-10 back, but to say there are 20 better than him is a little harsh. Dorsett, Dickerson, Brown, Payton, Sanders, Simpson, Campbell and E. Smith rank ahead of Martin and you could make a case for some of the others on the list, but I wouldn't think he would fall to 21st.

As for Martin (And Bettis for that matter)..... l4.008 per carry for the career... that is HORRID for a supposed top 20 RB all time....
Of ones not on that list in statistics... there are many I would put ahead of him and Bettis...
Red Grange
Bronko Nagurski
Curly Lambeau
Blood McNally
Jim Thorpe
Paul Hornung
Ollie Matson
Lenny Moore
Joe Perry
Tony Canadeo
That's 10 from just the old era alone.... I can probably name 5 or 6 at least off the top of my head, from during the era of Bettis and Martin, that I would consider superior... Faulk, Terrell Davis, Emmit Smith, Edge James, Barry Sanders, Terrell Davis, LT and Priest Holmes all come to mind right away....

Longevity alone cannot do it... yes it is great to be able to have a long career... But you have to add that in after the dominance, which frankly there were much more dominating runners in their era.....