THe AL MVP goes to Morneau

bedir than average · 11-21-2006, 03:21 PM

Twin First Bagger beats out Jeter

Morneau, Jeter, Ortiz, Thomas, Dye, Maeur, Santana, Hafner, Guerrero, and C.Guillen are the top ten.

I'm surprised that Morneau won, I didn't even expect him to be higher than his two teammates.

Guillen coming in 10th hurts as the Seattle Mariners got nothing for him.

bedir than average · 11-21-2006, 03:21 PM

Twin First Bagger beats out Jeter

Morneau, Jeter, Ortiz, Thomas, Dye, Maeur, Santana, Hafner, Guerrero, and C.Guillen are the top ten.

I'm surprised that Morneau won, I didn't even expect him to be higher than his two teammates.

Guillen coming in 10th hurts as the Seattle Mariners got nothing for him.

Dada · 11-21-2006, 03:35 PM

I think it was deserved. He had an amazing year, and really carried that team through some stretches. Mauer gets all the attention, but it was Morneau hurting people...

MuffinMcFluffin · 11-21-2006, 03:39 PM

He won deservatively so. I don't think he would have won if the Twins didn't win the AL Central, though (I still would have voted for him, but it's just my opinion that he wouldn't have gotten as many votes that way).

He set a franchise record for RBI's, is that correct?

bedir than average · 11-21-2006, 04:36 PM

Yep, but RBIs don't tell the whole picture.

I'm a bit fan of Win Probability Added for something like MVP

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...=0&season=2006

Ortiz, Jeter and Dye all beat Morneau who barely edges out Hafner.

If one prefers Win Shares Morneau comes in fifth.

He is also beaten by guys who play tougher positions on teams that won as many games.

Yankee1012 · 11-21-2006, 04:53 PM

I thought Jeter was gonna get it but im glad that it was Morneau. I said that if Jeter didnt win it Morneau would and he did. Morneau had a great year and this is a sign that he should be around as a elite hitter for a while.

MuffinMcFluffin · 11-21-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedir than average

Yep, but RBIs don't tell the whole picture.

Oh, I'm sure that it doesn't. As a matter of fact, I tend to consider that stat highly overrated. I was just confirming that I had my facts right when I said that. Wasn't trying to prove a point of his MVP status or anything.

One sabermetric that I particularly love is the RC27 stat. It says that, assuming you have a team comprising of nine of the same player, "this" is the number of runs [on average] that your team would score in a game. It doesn't even take RBI's into account with the many formulas that people have come up with for this stat. In 2004, Barry Bonds had a number of like twenty something, which is believable for his average, slugging percentage, and on-base percentage for that year.

bedir than average · 11-21-2006, 07:11 PM

ESPN has sortable RC/27

This links to RC/27 AL Qualifiers

Top 5 are Hafner, Manny, Ortiz, Thome, Dye

Morneau comes in 9th behind Mauer.

ofhdhdy · 11-21-2006, 09:54 PM

Of course a good old Canadian wins the award! Congrats Morneau on a great season that was very deserving of the MVP!

Minnesotakid · 11-26-2006, 12:02 AM

Morneau as MVP is a surprise only because he comes from small market Minnesota. Yankee fans understandably think their guy Jeter got robbed. He indeed had a great year. I love the way that guy plays - he's Hall of Fame stuff! But, once again, the semantics of the term "most valuable" are in question. Is it individual stats? Or value to one's team?

Consider this:
The Yankees, sans Derek Jeter, could have won the pennant. A decent shortstop with an average bat could have been sandwiched into their current "murderers row." The Twins don't come close to a wild card, much less a division championship, without Justin Morneau and his innumerable big hits.

The fact he didn't hit 47 - 50 homers like Ortiz or Howard makes him an underwhelming choice to today's fans, who are used to other "numbers" players from recent times who have compiled huge numbers under shady circumstances (i.e., using "vitamin supplements").

What is not understood nationally about Morneau is that he is an excellent hitter who has become more selective at the plate, taking the ball the other way for doubles and singles to drive in baserunners instead of pulling for the homerun every time up. Also, he didn't have the most dangerous RBI man of the past 25 years (Manny) hitting next to him in the lineup. Therefore, fewer hittable pitches for him. As good as Joe Mauer is, he cannot be labeled a great run producer, at least at this point in his career.

As it is, the Twins have a great nucleus in their batting order for years to come.

11-21-2006, 03:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	THe AL MVP goes to Morneau Twin First Bagger beats out Jeter Morneau, Jeter, Ortiz, Thomas, Dye, Maeur, Santana, Hafner, Guerrero, and C.Guillen are the top ten. I'm surprised that Morneau won, I didn't even expect him to be higher than his two teammates. Guillen coming in 10th hurts as the Seattle Mariners got nothing for him. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

11-21-2006, 03:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	The AL MVP goes to Twin Morneau Twin First Bagger beats out Jeter Morneau, Jeter, Ortiz, Thomas, Dye, Maeur, Santana, Hafner, Guerrero, and C.Guillen are the top ten. I'm surprised that Morneau won, I didn't even expect him to be higher than his two teammates. Guillen coming in 10th hurts as the Seattle Mariners got nothing for him. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

11-21-2006, 03:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
MuffinMcFluffin Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 584	He won deservatively so. I don't think he would have won if the Twins didn't win the AL Central, though (I still would have voted for him, but it's just my opinion that he wouldn't have gotten as many votes that way). He set a franchise record for RBI's, is that correct? __________________

11-21-2006, 04:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	Yep, but RBIs don't tell the whole picture. I'm a bit fan of Win Probability Added for something like MVP http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...=0&season=2006 Ortiz, Jeter and Dye all beat Morneau who barely edges out Hafner. If one prefers Win Shares Morneau comes in fifth. He is also beaten by guys who play tougher positions on teams that won as many games. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

11-21-2006, 04:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Yankee1012 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 551	I thought Jeter was gonna get it but im glad that it was Morneau. I said that if Jeter didnt win it Morneau would and he did. Morneau had a great year and this is a sign that he should be around as a elite hitter for a while. __________________ Jets-Yankees-Knicks-Cowboys-GA Tech-Rangers

11-21-2006, 03:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
Dada Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 125	I think it was deserved. He had an amazing year, and really carried that team through some stretches. Mauer gets all the attention, but it was Morneau hurting people...

11-21-2006, 07:11 PM	#8 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	ESPN has sortable RC/27 This links to RC/27 AL Qualifiers Top 5 are Hafner, Manny, Ortiz, Thome, Dye Morneau comes in 9th behind Mauer. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

11-21-2006, 09:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
ofhdhdy Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Saskatoon, SK Posts: 378	Of course a good old Canadian wins the award! Congrats Morneau on a great season that was very deserving of the MVP!

11-26-2006, 12:02 AM	#10 (permalink)
Minnesotakid New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Prague, Minnesota Posts: 2	Suprised the voters got MVP right! Morneau as MVP is a surprise only because he comes from small market Minnesota. Yankee fans understandably think their guy Jeter got robbed. He indeed had a great year. I love the way that guy plays - he's Hall of Fame stuff! But, once again, the semantics of the term "most valuable" are in question. Is it individual stats? Or value to one's team? Consider this: The Yankees, sans Derek Jeter, could have won the pennant. A decent shortstop with an average bat could have been sandwiched into their current "murderers row." The Twins don't come close to a wild card, much less a division championship, without Justin Morneau and his innumerable big hits. The fact he didn't hit 47 - 50 homers like Ortiz or Howard makes him an underwhelming choice to today's fans, who are used to other "numbers" players from recent times who have compiled huge numbers under shady circumstances (i.e., using "vitamin supplements"). What is not understood nationally about Morneau is that he is an excellent hitter who has become more selective at the plate, taking the ball the other way for doubles and singles to drive in baserunners instead of pulling for the homerun every time up. Also, he didn't have the most dangerous RBI man of the past 25 years (Manny) hitting next to him in the lineup. Therefore, fewer hittable pitches for him. As good as Joe Mauer is, he cannot be labeled a great run producer, at least at this point in his career. As it is, the Twins have a great nucleus in their batting order for years to come.