Asterisks, windbags & fools in high places

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by dlb

Your argument, GS, appears to be that whatever performance enhancers the fans accept are perfectly okay, while those that might offend the fans are not, even if they are not specifically banned. Is this your point?

I had not addressed any sort of scale for degrees of performance enhancement acceptance, so how could the above "appear" to you to be my argument? How did this appear? In a dream? I am unaware of any performance enhancement drugs which the fans have okayed as legit or non offensive to them.

However, if we do establish a scale for degrees of offensiveness, then it would make sense, would it not, to have the greatest contempt for those drugs which contributed the most to altering performances.

I don't see any response from you to my central point. Is it or is it not the case, that the fans of baseball watched the sport under the assumption that they were seeing on the level deeds and not chemically enhanced heroics? Is it or is it not the case that those who did use steroids, did so in a clandestine manner and that they continue to cover up their past/present use? Is it or is it not the case that everyone involved, players, owners and fans, had a full recognition that steroid use was seen as shameful and unethical in baseball?

It may not have been a crime, yet everyone is behaving as though it was crime, especially the "criminals."

And that is the dead center of the ethical line crossed by Barry et al. He knew it was wrong and he did it anyway. He knew the fans would not approve, so he covered it up.

Finally, if "the rules" was really the governing ethic at work here, then why are players reluctant to come out and admit that they used steroids back in the '90's? Why don't they want anyone to know? No shame according to you, it wasn't against the rules. So why do they act ashamed?

[Nimajneb]

Is there a rule that specifies how the catcher must catch the ball, so as to facilitate an accurate call?

Not sure. Is it supposed to matter?

[dlb]

I don't see any response from you to my central point. Is it or is it not the case, that the fans of baseball watched the sport under the assumption that they were seeing on the level deeds and not chemically enhanced heroics?

That's your point? What a triviality.

Must the fans know everything that every player does to prepare for every game in order to enjoy the performance?

Should MLB decide that all players in its employ must eat the same foods, follow the same exercise regimen, sleep the same number of hours every night?

What makes performance enhancing substances any different from any other fully acceptable performance enhancing technology?

[bedir than average]

Well, they are both illegal (federal law) and against the rules?

[dlb]

Then, bedir, we get to the point of a complete lack of proof that Bonds knowingly used any illegal substance.

[kflo]

Originally Posted by dlb

Then, bedir, we get to the point of a complete lack of proof that Bonds knowingly used any illegal substance.

we just know that he claims to unknowingly have done so. "this flaxseed oil works great! shhhhh. don't tell anyone."

[dlb]

Does he make that claim? Has he ever said, "yes, I used steroids, but I didn't know it"?

[bedir than average]

He admitted to using the "cream and the clear" thinking they were OTC supplements and not steroids, at least that's his claim.

[dlb]

Well, if he thought he was using a legal supplement, he wasn't cheating, was he?

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by dlb

That's your point? What a triviality.

Must the fans know everything that every player does to prepare for every game in order to enjoy the performance?

Should MLB decide that all players in its employ must eat the same foods, follow the same exercise regimen, sleep the same number of hours every night?

What makes performance enhancing substances any different from any other fully acceptable performance enhancing technology?

This is not becoming....it is characterization rather than confrontation. You have no answer for my complaints, so you simply rule that it is unimportant. You have your head wedged firmly in the sand....or at least I hope that's sand.

You don't actually have a point or a position here at all, do you? You're just here making noise. The sport's a fraud? Eh, big deal, I don't care and since I don't care, then none of you should care.

And it won't matter what I write because you are have decided to be Dennis The Dismisser ....nothing's wrong and we know nothing's wrong because you say so. No reasons are needed, nothing but attitude.

This is advertising ethics, so it is unsurprising that you would arrive at this tra la la approach to problem solving.

Well, here are some teacher ethics....you get an "F" for this thread. In fact, dlb, I'm afraid we're going to have to make you repeat this thread before allowing you to move on to any others. You've shown some progress, but not enough to make us believe that you are ready to perform well at the next level. And we want your parents to come in for a conference. It might well be that you are actually bright and something about your home situation is causing you to do this poor work.

So....start over, use your brain this time, and let's see how you do.

[dlb]

The sport's a fraud?

Do you really think attempts to enhance performance turn the sport into a fraud? I don't.

Steroids are bad because they subject athletes to terrible side effects, not because they enhance performance. If the performance edge were the problem, then we'd have to regulate nutrition, workouts, surgeries to repair injuries (I may not remember this correctly, but doesn't the "Tommy John surgery" to repair a torn rotator cuff result in the ability to throw a better sinkerball?), and possibly even set maximum heights and weights for players. In short, the performance enhancement argument is both trivial and fraudulent.

The only question here is whether Bonds cheated by knowingly taking a banned substance. As yet, no one has proven that case. Others have at least attempted to make the logical argument that Bonds is guilty of such an offense. You, however, seem lost in some roid-rage-like frenzy over the matter.

Calm down. Breathe through your nose. Focus on the discussion. We'd like to see if you have something to contribute.

[Grandstander]

You didn't get the message...class was dismissed. You are dismissed.

[dlb]

Sorry, but this isn't your class. In fact, experience teaches me that you have none.

[Grandstander]

Shhhh...no talking in detention.

[dlb]

You've gotten much too easy to defeat in your old age, Granny. You aren't even attempting to justify your position. Maybe you should lay off the Maui Wowie for a while.