If Torre Managed Babe Ruth

LouGehrig · July 2nd, 2007, 09:44 AM

What would have happened? Could Torre have handled Ruth?

If Torre Managed the Babe: Does Joe Torre Care More About Players' Feelings Than Winning?

nanwynnfan · July 2nd, 2007, 10:17 AM

Good question. However, remember it was Jacob Ruppert who cowed Ruth, backing up Huggins completely. I also believe that Ruth might have been a bit contained by the strong, silent and awesomely productive presence of teammate Lou Gehrig on the bench between innings in the field. Gehrig, who would never start a fight himself, certainly never had to, simply because it was a "given" that he could finish one if pushed into it.

That kind of silent force seems to have been on many a team throughout baseball history, stilling the fires and tantrums of oddball teammates. Guys like Charlie Keller, Gil Hodges, Frank Howard, Harmon Killebrew lend a lot more to team production than pure stats would suggest.

I,m guessing that of the current crop of managers, Jim Leyland would have handled Ruth best, leading by example, tolerating no BS, and shaming Ruth into compliance by quiet leadership. The presence of a team leader like Ivan Rodriguez would not have hurt in the least.

Nocahoma · July 2nd, 2007, 11:34 AM

Dammit, I was all set for this to be an exercise in Yankee hubris, full of masturbatory statements about the greatest player and the "greatest" manager. How dare they not fulfill my desire to rip in to Yankmee fans again!

Anyway, the question is a little silly, mostly because I'd take Huggins over Torre, anyway. Leyland, however, is probably a great answer on Nan's part. I'd probably mention Cox as his 2nd-in-command -- he has a reputation as a "Player's Manager," but he has never been hesitant to enforce his will upon poor performers, even if it's usually out of the public eye. Keep in mind that this is the man who ran onto the field to remove Andruw Jones from a game for dogging it on a play.

LouGehrig · July 2nd, 2007, 04:26 PM

Just as Hodges did to Cleon Jones in 1969. Torre does not have the ability to MOTIVATE players to do what is necessary to win. Wanting to win is not enough. It is similar to to the person who wants to lose weight but is unwilling to take the steps necessary to accomplish the goal.

jtur88 · July 2nd, 2007, 06:25 PM

Also worth addressing would be whether the Ruth persona would have been overwhelmed by various kinds of controlled substances that are more reaily abailable now than they were then. We need to consider the chances that Ruth would have already been banned from baseball. He would be another Jose Canseco or Manny Ramirez or Pete Rose in this unforgiving time, hounded by the media. He might have never even been called up from the minos, even if he hit as many home runs down there as Joe Baumann.

nanwynnfan · July 3rd, 2007, 07:51 AM

He'd have been called up, as a pitcher. The scandalous stuff happened after he'd had a few MLB years [and beers] under his belt.

He'd probably have been seen and treated more like a Clay-Ali than a Canseco.

July 2nd, 2007, 09:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
LouGehrig Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 225	If Torre Managed Babe Ruth What would have happened? Could Torre have handled Ruth? If Torre Managed the Babe: Does Joe Torre Care More About Players' Feelings Than Winning?

July 2nd, 2007, 10:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
nanwynnfan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,579	Good question. However, remember it was Jacob Ruppert who cowed Ruth, backing up Huggins completely. I also believe that Ruth might have been a bit contained by the strong, silent and awesomely productive presence of teammate Lou Gehrig on the bench between innings in the field. Gehrig, who would never start a fight himself, certainly never had to, simply because it was a "given" that he could finish one if pushed into it. That kind of silent force seems to have been on many a team throughout baseball history, stilling the fires and tantrums of oddball teammates. Guys like Charlie Keller, Gil Hodges, Frank Howard, Harmon Killebrew lend a lot more to team production than pure stats would suggest. I,m guessing that of the current crop of managers, Jim Leyland would have handled Ruth best, leading by example, tolerating no BS, and shaming Ruth into compliance by quiet leadership. The presence of a team leader like Ivan Rodriguez would not have hurt in the least. Last edited by nanwynnfan; July 2nd, 2007 at 10:30 AM.

July 2nd, 2007, 11:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
Nocahoma Moderator Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,238	Dammit, I was all set for this to be an exercise in Yankee hubris, full of masturbatory statements about the greatest player and the "greatest" manager. How dare they not fulfill my desire to rip in to Yankmee fans again! Anyway, the question is a little silly, mostly because I'd take Huggins over Torre, anyway. Leyland, however, is probably a great answer on Nan's part. I'd probably mention Cox as his 2nd-in-command -- he has a reputation as a "Player's Manager," but he has never been hesitant to enforce his will upon poor performers, even if it's usually out of the public eye. Keep in mind that this is the man who ran onto the field to remove Andruw Jones from a game for dogging it on a play.

July 2nd, 2007, 04:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
LouGehrig Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 225	Just as Hodges did to Cleon Jones in 1969. Torre does not have the ability to MOTIVATE players to do what is necessary to win. Wanting to win is not enough. It is similar to to the person who wants to lose weight but is unwilling to take the steps necessary to accomplish the goal.

July 2nd, 2007, 06:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,857	Also worth addressing would be whether the Ruth persona would have been overwhelmed by various kinds of controlled substances that are more reaily abailable now than they were then. We need to consider the chances that Ruth would have already been banned from baseball. He would be another Jose Canseco or Manny Ramirez or Pete Rose in this unforgiving time, hounded by the media. He might have never even been called up from the minos, even if he hit as many home runs down there as Joe Baumann.

July 3rd, 2007, 07:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
nanwynnfan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,579	He'd have been called up, as a pitcher. The scandalous stuff happened after he'd had a few MLB years [and beers] under his belt. He'd probably have been seen and treated more like a Clay-Ali than a Canseco.