Deepest Division - Page 2

bedir than average · February 7th, 2007, 08:41 PM

I'll tell you why the NL East isn't "deep"

Atlanta has major questions on offense, and really only one starting pitcher, their fans figure them for a .500 season or so.

The Mets have no starters that can be depended upon over a full season. Glavine's arm could go old age pitcher any second, Pedro is finished and after that they have a bunch of guys that are less than average.

The Phillies are counting on Jamie Moyer and Freddy Garcia keeping them in games, something that neither pitcher did effectively in larger ballparks. Moyer will set a new record for homers surrendered. The lack of quality relief will come into play.

The Nats are the Nats. They will continue to struggle. I don't say this because I hate them for acquiring the Jedi, but they have so many holes it is more sad than funny.

Florida is young and exciting and will challenge for the division. Unfortunately regression studies have made it clear that the hot performances of last year will not be repeated. But they do have more young talent, guys who didn't finish 1,2,4 in the ROY voting, and a team that has guys like Cabrera and Willis on it with a fine overall pitching staff that is just missing a relief ace won't struggle over a full season.

So if by deep you mean that the NL East will be similar to last years NL Central and an 83 win team will take it you might be right.

IF by DEEP you mean a division that could have 3 teams finish with more than 90 wins with a fourth over .500, you should be looking at the AL East.

The Red Sox have the best rotation in baseball even if Schilling is just a shadow of his old self. Their offense is amazing. Even their bullpen is solid and though they have questions at closer they aren't locked into any guy as "The one" and so can adjust on the fly.

The Yankees have a better than average rotation, even if old. They have Hall of Famers at nearly every position and the best reliever in the history of the game.

Toronto looks to have AJ Burnett for a full season paired with perrenial Cy Young candidate in Halladay. One-Two punches like that are hard to stop in a series, or in a season. Their relief corp is strong and led by a guy that any team would be more than willing to have. The offense is anchored by guys like Glaus, Wells, Overbay and more who can put up big numbers quick.

All three of those teams will finish with more wins than any in the NL East.

Baltimore has a good offensive corp while their staff seems to be coming around, plenty of reason for hope.

Tampa sadly will make bad management decisions and squander the massive amounts of talent they have.

77smbg9177 · February 7th, 2007, 08:43 PM

"The Mets have no starters that can be depended upon over a full season. Glavine's arm could go old age pitcher any second, Pedro is finished and after that they have a bunch of guys that are less than average."

True but look at last year no one expected theMets pitcher to do as good as they did the same thing is gogin to happen again this year

John F · February 7th, 2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 77smbg9177

yes Florida is trying to get wrose but they are still having winning seasons and i think it comes down to KC and Nats and Nats make up a lot compared to the Royals

That was the qustion so you have to add all the teams together you can't leave out anyteam

So basically you are slanting the argument so that only your choice -- the NL East because you believe such-and-such -- is the deepest division in baseball.

That's not a conversation or a discussion. That's basically you trying to bully people into your line of thinking.

Florida and the Nats are both mediocre at best. You have A world series champion, perrenial contenders in the AL Central in the Chisox, Indians, Twins and you have the WS runner up in Detroit.

That trumps, slays and destroys the group of Atlanta (horrid last year. Simply a joke) New York and Philly.

bedir than average · February 7th, 2007, 08:45 PM

No its not. That doesn't happen in baseball. Teams don't have pitchers that overperform as a unit for a full year repeat their overperformance the very next year.

Look at the White Sox World Series year and how they followed that up.

77smbg9177 · February 7th, 2007, 08:47 PM

ok just because the happen to the white soxs doesn't mean this will happen to the Mets. Mark my words the mets will have one of the top 5 pitching staff in all of NL

bedir than average · February 7th, 2007, 08:49 PM

Why should I mark your words? There is evidence against you, and you have provided none in your favor.

all4phillysportsfan · February 7th, 2007, 08:49 PM

Hey John, I couldn't agree with you more. I think those 4 teams in the AL Central could beat any team in the NL East including the Mets.

77smbg9177 · February 7th, 2007, 08:50 PM

Look at Duaners numbers from last year and even Mota in the playoffs they have 7 guys who last pitched with an era under a 4

bedir than average · February 7th, 2007, 08:51 PM

So 4 teams in the AL Central are better than the best of the NL East, as are three teams in the AL East. Every division has a bottom dweller, so what teams like KC, Seattle, Tampa, DC, Colorado or Cinci do is moot.

Overperforming last year does not prove future performance.

John F · February 7th, 2007, 08:53 PM

lets use a stronger term to define over-performing:

Fluke.

all4phillysportsfan · February 7th, 2007, 08:53 PM

I am not sure about Toronto though bedir. I think the Mets, and Phillies could compete with the Jays.

77smbg9177 · February 7th, 2007, 08:54 PM

Wagner
Feliciano
Heilman
Sanchez
Adkinsera
Mota who was lights out in 18 games for the Mets with a 1.oo as a met
Schoenewise who like Mota was lights out in the NL with a .67
Padilla who dint pitch last year but had an era of 1.47 the year before and is healthy

77smbg9177 · February 7th, 2007, 08:55 PM

Wagner also what saved his last 18 games or so in a row

all4phillysportsfan · February 7th, 2007, 08:55 PM

are you telling me Scott Schoenewis is gonna be the key to your bullpen? I laughed when I saw that signing.

bedir than average · February 7th, 2007, 08:58 PM

Telling me how good the relief staff is doesn't help the fact that you don't have any starters that will get more than 50% of their starts as quality starts.

February 7th, 2007, 08:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	I'll tell you why the NL East isn't "deep" Atlanta has major questions on offense, and really only one starting pitcher, their fans figure them for a .500 season or so. The Mets have no starters that can be depended upon over a full season. Glavine's arm could go old age pitcher any second, Pedro is finished and after that they have a bunch of guys that are less than average. The Phillies are counting on Jamie Moyer and Freddy Garcia keeping them in games, something that neither pitcher did effectively in larger ballparks. Moyer will set a new record for homers surrendered. The lack of quality relief will come into play. The Nats are the Nats. They will continue to struggle. I don't say this because I hate them for acquiring the Jedi, but they have so many holes it is more sad than funny. Florida is young and exciting and will challenge for the division. Unfortunately regression studies have made it clear that the hot performances of last year will not be repeated. But they do have more young talent, guys who didn't finish 1,2,4 in the ROY voting, and a team that has guys like Cabrera and Willis on it with a fine overall pitching staff that is just missing a relief ace won't struggle over a full season. So if by deep you mean that the NL East will be similar to last years NL Central and an 83 win team will take it you might be right. IF by DEEP you mean a division that could have 3 teams finish with more than 90 wins with a fourth over .500, you should be looking at the AL East. The Red Sox have the best rotation in baseball even if Schilling is just a shadow of his old self. Their offense is amazing. Even their bullpen is solid and though they have questions at closer they aren't locked into any guy as "The one" and so can adjust on the fly. The Yankees have a better than average rotation, even if old. They have Hall of Famers at nearly every position and the best reliever in the history of the game. Toronto looks to have AJ Burnett for a full season paired with perrenial Cy Young candidate in Halladay. One-Two punches like that are hard to stop in a series, or in a season. Their relief corp is strong and led by a guy that any team would be more than willing to have. The offense is anchored by guys like Glaus, Wells, Overbay and more who can put up big numbers quick. All three of those teams will finish with more wins than any in the NL East. Baltimore has a good offensive corp while their staff seems to be coming around, plenty of reason for hope. Tampa sadly will make bad management decisions and squander the massive amounts of talent they have. __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

February 7th, 2007, 08:43 PM	#17 (permalink)
77smbg9177 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NEW YORK Posts: 670	"The Mets have no starters that can be depended upon over a full season. Glavine's arm could go old age pitcher any second, Pedro is finished and after that they have a bunch of guys that are less than average." True but look at last year no one expected theMets pitcher to do as good as they did the same thing is gogin to happen again this year __________________ METS 07 WS CHAMPS i like how that just rolls of the tongue cant wait until that comes true

February 7th, 2007, 08:45 PM	#19 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	No its not. That doesn't happen in baseball. Teams don't have pitchers that overperform as a unit for a full year repeat their overperformance the very next year. Look at the White Sox World Series year and how they followed that up. __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

February 7th, 2007, 08:47 PM	#20 (permalink)
77smbg9177 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NEW YORK Posts: 670	ok just because the happen to the white soxs doesn't mean this will happen to the Mets. Mark my words the mets will have one of the top 5 pitching staff in all of NL __________________ METS 07 WS CHAMPS i like how that just rolls of the tongue cant wait until that comes true

February 7th, 2007, 08:49 PM	#21 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	Why should I mark your words? There is evidence against you, and you have provided none in your favor. __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

February 7th, 2007, 08:49 PM	#22 (permalink)
all4phillysportsfan Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,630	Hey John, I couldn't agree with you more. I think those 4 teams in the AL Central could beat any team in the NL East including the Mets. __________________ Philly Sports: The worst drought in America.

February 7th, 2007, 08:50 PM	#23 (permalink)
77smbg9177 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NEW YORK Posts: 670	Look at Duaners numbers from last year and even Mota in the playoffs they have 7 guys who last pitched with an era under a 4 __________________ METS 07 WS CHAMPS i like how that just rolls of the tongue cant wait until that comes true

February 7th, 2007, 08:51 PM	#24 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	So 4 teams in the AL Central are better than the best of the NL East, as are three teams in the AL East. Every division has a bottom dweller, so what teams like KC, Seattle, Tampa, DC, Colorado or Cinci do is moot. Overperforming last year does not prove future performance. __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

February 7th, 2007, 08:53 PM	#25 (permalink)
John F Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tampa Bay area, Florida Posts: 2,510	lets use a stronger term to define over-performing: Fluke.

February 7th, 2007, 08:53 PM	#26 (permalink)
all4phillysportsfan Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,630	I am not sure about Toronto though bedir. I think the Mets, and Phillies could compete with the Jays. __________________ Philly Sports: The worst drought in America.

February 7th, 2007, 08:54 PM	#27 (permalink)
77smbg9177 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NEW YORK Posts: 670	Wagner Feliciano Heilman Sanchez Adkinsera Mota who was lights out in 18 games for the Mets with a 1.oo as a met Schoenewise who like Mota was lights out in the NL with a .67 Padilla who dint pitch last year but had an era of 1.47 the year before and is healthy __________________ METS 07 WS CHAMPS i like how that just rolls of the tongue cant wait until that comes true

February 7th, 2007, 08:55 PM	#28 (permalink)
77smbg9177 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NEW YORK Posts: 670	Wagner also what saved his last 18 games or so in a row __________________ METS 07 WS CHAMPS i like how that just rolls of the tongue cant wait until that comes true

February 7th, 2007, 08:55 PM	#29 (permalink)
all4phillysportsfan Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,630	are you telling me Scott Schoenewis is gonna be the key to your bullpen? I laughed when I saw that signing. __________________ Philly Sports: The worst drought in America.

February 7th, 2007, 08:58 PM	#30 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	Telling me how good the relief staff is doesn't help the fact that you don't have any starters that will get more than 50% of their starts as quality starts. __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.