Who is wrong? Umps or announcers? - Page 2

Simp · 05-03-2008, 09:18 PM

Good list, Triad. Brings to mind another dopey thing announcers say: "Joe Blow has a walk in 4 at-bats." Uh, a walk isn't considered an AB, so that's an impossibilty.

jtur88 · 05-03-2008, 10:16 PM

I heard Gary Matthews The Elder guest-coloring the Phillies game the other night, and I really enjoyed him. He doesn't have a radio voice, but he speaks in complete, grammmatically correct sentences, he's not afraid to express a critical opinion, he has a sense of irony and humor. It would be nice to hear some more of him.

Simp · 05-03-2008, 10:17 PM

Just heard another example: Willy Taveras makes a great catch on a ball hit to left-center and the annoucer says he "outran the ball". How fast is a ball hit 300-350 travelling? Certainly much faster than any human can go.

jtur88 · 05-03-2008, 11:48 PM

The ball and Taveras were both following a trajectory that would arrive at the same point. Taveras got there first---in other words, outran the ball. I have no problem with an announcer trying to use colorful language and literary devices to do so.

One that bothers me is "The replay showed that the umpire made an outstanding call!" The umpire is either right or wrong. How can a call be outstanding? If an outfielder "almost made a spectacular catch", how about "The umpire almost made a great call"?

Simp · 05-04-2008, 07:21 AM

Taveras had to cover say 30 ft. in the same amount of time the ball covered 300. Given that big a headstart I could "outrun" a cheetah.

Heard an announcer say recently that if a batter finishes his swing holding the bat with one hand it means he's been fooled. I guess that would be news to Griffey Jr., Frank Thomas, George Brett, Lau & Hriniak, among others.

jtur88 · 05-04-2008, 09:07 AM

Yes, but you'd have still outrun the cheetah. Unless the cheetah has you for lunch, or Taveras does not catch the ball, in which cases the outrunning has not occurred.

I think the announcer meant that if the batter normally does not end the swing with the bat in one hand, doing so is an indicator that he has been fooled. Which is probably true ofetn enough to render it a useful generalization.

Simp · 05-04-2008, 10:24 AM

Only if the cheetah and I started at the same spot and ran the same distance. Willy Taveras and I didn't outrun anything. We just had a big headstart. And the announcer said "anytime" you see a batter end a swing with one hand he's been fooled. That's not a generalization, he just forgot about the existence of swings that end that way.

jtur88 · 05-04-2008, 11:37 AM

OK, if you want to pick the words apart, so can I: Taveras did NOT have a big headstart. The ball started first.

Simp · 05-05-2008, 08:54 AM

Distance is also a head-start. Taveras was much closer to where the ball ended up than the ball itself.

How about when announcers equate the "scoop" made by the firstbaseman with the play made by the infielder: "Joe Soandso ranges from the 2nd base hole, dives over the left-field foul line, somersaults and then launches the throw between his legs, long-snapper style, on a bounce to first to get the out...GREAT PLAY ON BOTH ENDS!!!!"

Triad · 05-05-2008, 01:31 PM

This also reminds me of how announcers (and Baseball Tonight commentators) will often say that a fielder "makes the easy out!" Easy for whom? The funny thing is they make a big deal of it, while at the same time saying it was an easy out. The players will surely tell you they should've made that play, but they won't tell you that anything is "easy".

You hear this in basketball too. "He goes in for the easy lay-up." Why even designate whether it was easy or not? What about what led up to it? The tail end of the play might have not required a lot of skill, but what precipitated it likely did. Players tend to create the ease or difficulty of their own plays, and rarely is a play made in a vacuum.

Why don't they just say, "Derrek Lee flips to the pitcher for a play so easy that even Dick Stuart could've made it"?

Easy out? No! It's not easy. At the very least, the pitcher had to do something special to get them in that situation. If outs were often easy, then Garth Brooks and Meat Loaf could have starting jobs for major league teams.

It seems an insult to the players to be saying that it's an easy play. "Ichiro makes the easy catch." In other words, according to the announcer, what Ichiro did required very little skill at all.

________________________

Yeah, those "almost makes a spectacular play" calls are a little over the top. Rick Rizz revels in them, as does Niehouse. They get into the superlative before the outcome of the play is even known.

________________________

Now, the question I'd want to know about Taveras is: did he jump on his horse to get to the ball?

Grandstander · 05-05-2008, 02:13 PM

The one that bugs me a great deal is when announcers will fall over themselves in praise of a catcher who blocks an errant pitch before it gets behind him. The vast majority of the time, it appears to me to be just a matter of luck. The ball didn't bounce that far away, or it took just the right angle so that it hits the catcher. How much time is elapsing between the ball hitting the dirt in front of the plate and the ball passing the plate to the left or right? i.e., how long does it take a ball to travel the three critical feet before it is either blocked or is past the catcher? Can any human being possibly react to position himself correctly in the .00001 seconds available to him? You can only lunge in a general direction and hope that the ball's bounce takes it in the direction you chose.

I notice that when a ball does get by a catcher, the announcers will never go into any harsh criticism of how bad the particular catcher is at blocking such errant pitches, they treat it as..."That's the way the ball bounces."

LongtimeBravesFan · 05-05-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

One that bothers me is "The replay showed that the umpire made an outstanding call!" The umpire is either right or wrong. How can a call be outstanding?

I'm assuming they say this when it is a very close play and the replay shows the ump got it right.

Simp · 05-17-2008, 08:56 PM

Just heard another good one: announcer says that Darin Erstad is still a "tough out". That must mean he fouls off a lot of pitches and hustles down the line before he makes (lotsa) outs.

jtur88 · 05-21-2008, 09:48 PM

Tonight, they are going on and on and on about replays and homers.

How about this idea: Require all stadiums to be designed (or retrofit) so that if a ball goes out, it is a home run, and if it bounces back it is not. The "yellow line" is without a doubt the stupidest rule ever introduced into baseball.

Triad · 05-22-2008, 03:25 PM

Wrigley Field seems to have a pretty good system. There's something artificial about a home run ball bouncing back onto the field. Part of the mystique is having it go into the great beyond, as if the baseball gods absorbed it for safe keeping.

05-03-2008, 09:18 PM	#16 (permalink)
Simp Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 361	Good list, Triad. Brings to mind another dopey thing announcers say: "Joe Blow has a walk in 4 at-bats." Uh, a walk isn't considered an AB, so that's an impossibilty. Last edited by Simp; 05-03-2008 at 09:19 PM. Reason: I can't type

05-03-2008, 10:16 PM	#17 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,054	I heard Gary Matthews The Elder guest-coloring the Phillies game the other night, and I really enjoyed him. He doesn't have a radio voice, but he speaks in complete, grammmatically correct sentences, he's not afraid to express a critical opinion, he has a sense of irony and humor. It would be nice to hear some more of him. __________________ ------------------ RE-ELECT McCAIN

05-03-2008, 11:48 PM	#19 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,054	The ball and Taveras were both following a trajectory that would arrive at the same point. Taveras got there first---in other words, outran the ball. I have no problem with an announcer trying to use colorful language and literary devices to do so. One that bothers me is "The replay showed that the umpire made an outstanding call!" The umpire is either right or wrong. How can a call be outstanding? If an outfielder "almost made a spectacular catch", how about "The umpire almost made a great call"? __________________ ------------------ RE-ELECT McCAIN

05-04-2008, 09:07 AM	#21 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,054	Yes, but you'd have still outrun the cheetah. Unless the cheetah has you for lunch, or Taveras does not catch the ball, in which cases the outrunning has not occurred. I think the announcer meant that if the batter normally does not end the swing with the bat in one hand, doing so is an indicator that he has been fooled. Which is probably true ofetn enough to render it a useful generalization. __________________ ------------------ RE-ELECT McCAIN Last edited by jtur88; 05-04-2008 at 09:09 AM.

05-04-2008, 11:37 AM	#23 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,054	OK, if you want to pick the words apart, so can I: Taveras did NOT have a big headstart. The ball started first. __________________ ------------------ RE-ELECT McCAIN

05-03-2008, 10:17 PM	#18 (permalink)
Simp Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 361	Just heard another example: Willy Taveras makes a great catch on a ball hit to left-center and the annoucer says he "outran the ball". How fast is a ball hit 300-350 travelling? Certainly much faster than any human can go.

05-04-2008, 07:21 AM	#20 (permalink)
Simp Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 361	Taveras had to cover say 30 ft. in the same amount of time the ball covered 300. Given that big a headstart I could "outrun" a cheetah. Heard an announcer say recently that if a batter finishes his swing holding the bat with one hand it means he's been fooled. I guess that would be news to Griffey Jr., Frank Thomas, George Brett, Lau & Hriniak, among others.

05-04-2008, 10:24 AM	#22 (permalink)
Simp Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 361	Only if the cheetah and I started at the same spot and ran the same distance. Willy Taveras and I didn't outrun anything. We just had a big headstart. And the announcer said "anytime" you see a batter end a swing with one hand he's been fooled. That's not a generalization, he just forgot about the existence of swings that end that way.

05-05-2008, 08:54 AM	#24 (permalink)
Simp Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 361	Distance is also a head-start. Taveras was much closer to where the ball ended up than the ball itself. How about when announcers equate the "scoop" made by the firstbaseman with the play made by the infielder: "Joe Soandso ranges from the 2nd base hole, dives over the left-field foul line, somersaults and then launches the throw between his legs, long-snapper style, on a bounce to first to get the out...GREAT PLAY ON BOTH ENDS!!!!"

05-05-2008, 01:31 PM	#25 (permalink)
Triad Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 209	This also reminds me of how announcers (and Baseball Tonight commentators) will often say that a fielder "makes the easy out!" Easy for whom? The funny thing is they make a big deal of it, while at the same time saying it was an easy out. The players will surely tell you they should've made that play, but they won't tell you that anything is "easy". You hear this in basketball too. "He goes in for the easy lay-up." Why even designate whether it was easy or not? What about what led up to it? The tail end of the play might have not required a lot of skill, but what precipitated it likely did. Players tend to create the ease or difficulty of their own plays, and rarely is a play made in a vacuum. Why don't they just say, "Derrek Lee flips to the pitcher for a play so easy that even Dick Stuart could've made it"? Easy out? No! It's not easy. At the very least, the pitcher had to do something special to get them in that situation. If outs were often easy, then Garth Brooks and Meat Loaf could have starting jobs for major league teams. It seems an insult to the players to be saying that it's an easy play. "Ichiro makes the easy catch." In other words, according to the announcer, what Ichiro did required very little skill at all. ________________________ Yeah, those "almost makes a spectacular play" calls are a little over the top. Rick Rizz revels in them, as does Niehouse. They get into the superlative before the outcome of the play is even known. ________________________ Now, the question I'd want to know about Taveras is: did he jump on his horse to get to the ball? Last edited by Triad; 05-05-2008 at 01:34 PM.

05-05-2008, 02:13 PM	#26 (permalink)
Grandstander Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Northern California Posts: 5,556	The one that bugs me a great deal is when announcers will fall over themselves in praise of a catcher who blocks an errant pitch before it gets behind him. The vast majority of the time, it appears to me to be just a matter of luck. The ball didn't bounce that far away, or it took just the right angle so that it hits the catcher. How much time is elapsing between the ball hitting the dirt in front of the plate and the ball passing the plate to the left or right? i.e., how long does it take a ball to travel the three critical feet before it is either blocked or is past the catcher? Can any human being possibly react to position himself correctly in the .00001 seconds available to him? You can only lunge in a general direction and hope that the ball's bounce takes it in the direction you chose. I notice that when a ball does get by a catcher, the announcers will never go into any harsh criticism of how bad the particular catcher is at blocking such errant pitches, they treat it as..."That's the way the ball bounces."

05-17-2008, 08:56 PM	#28 (permalink)
Simp Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 361	Just heard another good one: announcer says that Darin Erstad is still a "tough out". That must mean he fouls off a lot of pitches and hustles down the line before he makes (lotsa) outs.

05-21-2008, 09:48 PM	#29 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,054	Tonight, they are going on and on and on about replays and homers. How about this idea: Require all stadiums to be designed (or retrofit) so that if a ball goes out, it is a home run, and if it bounces back it is not. The "yellow line" is without a doubt the stupidest rule ever introduced into baseball. __________________ ------------------ RE-ELECT McCAIN

05-22-2008, 03:25 PM	#30 (permalink)
Triad Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 209	Wrigley Field seems to have a pretty good system. There's something artificial about a home run ball bouncing back onto the field. Part of the mystique is having it go into the great beyond, as if the baseball gods absorbed it for safe keeping.