Who would you rather on your team: Clemens or Bonds

djwhokid · 02-29-2008, 03:15 AM

If you had to choose one.

My pick: Barry Bonds

adeel · 02-29-2008, 04:10 PM

Clemens really came back to earth last year, but Bonds is still playing at a very high level (28 HR, .480/.565). He's still as good a hitter as any in the game at 42, which is remarkable even for a guy on steroids.

LongtimeBravesFan · 02-29-2008, 09:45 PM

My team only has two guys in their 40s in the rotation. They need another one.

bigheadache · 02-29-2008, 10:19 PM

Clemens really only had one really good year in Houston. The first year when he won the Cy Young. After that, he broke down by September. He needs to retire.

adeel · 02-29-2008, 10:28 PM

His second year was probably better: a 1.87 ERA over 211 innings in 2005. Yeah, he didn't do all that well in September, but still, it wasn't the end of the world.

I haven't followed him all that closely the last few years. Did he only pitch for half a year because he was unfit or because he didn't find a team to sign him?

Nat · 03-02-2008, 04:23 PM

It seems to me he did it for the money and the fact NY & Houston begged him to come back. Perhaps he wanted the option to not pitch an entire season (including spring training) and would only return under circumstances favorable to him.
As far as who I'd want on my team, the A's were being heavily considered for Bonds, but with Jack Cust & Mike Sweeney on board, I don't see the need for him. Clemens I would never want on my team, especially now. Edge for BB, because I think he still may have a little something left to offer a team.

John F · 03-02-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djwhokid

If you had to choose one.

My pick: Barry Bonds

Well, the lesser of two evils is still evil but I'd go with Clemens as to Bonds. Bonds has never performed in the playoffs, he's only been tot eh series once. Clemens - despite his current controversy -- has been there. He's actually performed int eh clutch that is October...

Also, it's an attitude thing. I don't recall eharing Roger is an arrogant, pompous prick. And I don't recall Clemens putting himself over his team when or the game.

adeel · 03-02-2008, 08:46 PM

Clemens is probably done. I don't think anyone needs a 45-year old pitcher (46 in August) whose ERA was over 4.00 last year.

Bonds hit .471 with 4 home runs and 13 walks in the 2002 World Series (OPS of about 2).

John F · 03-02-2008, 09:08 PM

Did he help the Giants win?

My answer was also a generalization of the two players. Clemens has something in influence on young players about ethic. I can't say that about Bonds.

I really wouldn't have either on my team by choice. But speaking of that, the Rays are exploring signing Bonds. Ugh.

adeel · 03-02-2008, 09:17 PM

He did help the Giants win, but there were other players on the team as well.

I agree that he doesn't work with other players the way Clemens does, but a guy who stands a 50-50 chance of getting on base is a tremendous asset.

I wouldn't want either on the Jays either, only because I don't want any cheaters on my favourite team.

Nat · 03-02-2008, 09:47 PM

Sorry John...when did Clemens excel in the postseason?
I remember him getting his butt kicked continually in a Boston uniform, and pulling himself out of many Yankee games when he was losing (to protect stats, perhaps) with the ever-mysterious leg cramps. He has rings, mainly due to the talent which surrounded him in 1999-2000.
Petitte & El Duque, now those guys were postseason pitchers.

Grandstander · 03-06-2008, 09:44 AM

Bonds showed that he can still make an excellent offensive contribution last season, what is keeping clubs from signing him isn't a fear of getting nothing for your money. Rather, it is how much money and how much grief would your club have to embrace in order to get whatever contribution Bonds could make. Barry has always equated money with respect and I can't see him offering his services cheaply. Does some club want to shell out 12 million for a DH who comes to the plate 400-450 times? Would that really be the difference between contending and one more crappy year for the Rays? Do they want to pay Bonds huge bucks so that they finish 19 games out of first place rather than 25? I think that if he is signed by a team at all, it won't be at the start of the season, and if it does happen during the season, it would be some club which is in contention but needs one more big bat to push them to the top.

There is also the concern of how Bonds would be accepted by any group of fans outside of San Francisco. Everywhere else he was greeted like Judas at a fundamentalist's convention and not just because he was a rival player. Would a club sign a player who is likely to be booed by the home fans?

Nat · 03-06-2008, 11:45 AM

Heh...alot of that changes when he's on your team. Even Jeff Kent became a Dodger, David Cone a Red Sox, Jerry Rice a Raider, etc

LongtimeBravesFan · 03-08-2008, 12:27 AM

FWIW, he needs just 65 its for 3,000. Some team might take him just for that if the price was right.

As for signing someone the fans hate, the Braves signed Bobby Bonilia a few years ago. It wasn't a popular move, but he had a good season and was well received.

Zen653 · 03-08-2008, 03:36 PM

I'd take Barry Bonds. He's still one of the best hitters in the game. As a DH in a deep lineup, he'd hit 30+ HR, knock in 100+ runs and hit at least .270 with an OBA in excess of .400. If he's desperate enough to continue playing (so that he can reach 3,000 hits), maybe he would accept short money from a mediocre to bad team. If I'm the GM of the Oakland A's, Kansas City Royals, Baltimore Orioles or Tampa Bay Devil Rays, I'd sign him for 1 year/$5 million. He'd boost local attendance and push an otherwise uncompetitive team into respectability.

02-29-2008, 03:15 AM	#1 (permalink)
djwhokid Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,650	Who would you rather on your team: Clemens or Bonds If you had to choose one. My pick: Barry Bonds __________________ Still waiting for my Starbucks card Bedir.

03-02-2008, 09:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
John F Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tampa Bay area, Florida Posts: 2,286	Did he help the Giants win? My answer was also a generalization of the two players. Clemens has something in influence on young players about ethic. I can't say that about Bonds. I really wouldn't have either on my team by choice. But speaking of that, the Rays are exploring signing Bonds. Ugh. __________________ Tom Hagen is not a war-time consigliere

03-02-2008, 09:47 PM	#11 (permalink)
Nat Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 907	Sorry John...when did Clemens excel in the postseason? I remember him getting his butt kicked continually in a Boston uniform, and pulling himself out of many Yankee games when he was losing (to protect stats, perhaps) with the ever-mysterious leg cramps. He has rings, mainly due to the talent which surrounded him in 1999-2000. Petitte & El Duque, now those guys were postseason pitchers. Last edited by Nat : 03-02-2008 at 09:53 PM.

02-29-2008, 04:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
adeel Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 545	Clemens really came back to earth last year, but Bonds is still playing at a very high level (28 HR, .480/.565). He's still as good a hitter as any in the game at 42, which is remarkable even for a guy on steroids.

02-29-2008, 09:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,409	My team only has two guys in their 40s in the rotation. They need another one.

02-29-2008, 10:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
bigheadache Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roswell, NM Posts: 655	Clemens really only had one really good year in Houston. The first year when he won the Cy Young. After that, he broke down by September. He needs to retire.

02-29-2008, 10:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
adeel Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 545	His second year was probably better: a 1.87 ERA over 211 innings in 2005. Yeah, he didn't do all that well in September, but still, it wasn't the end of the world. I haven't followed him all that closely the last few years. Did he only pitch for half a year because he was unfit or because he didn't find a team to sign him?

03-02-2008, 04:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nat Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 907	It seems to me he did it for the money and the fact NY & Houston begged him to come back. Perhaps he wanted the option to not pitch an entire season (including spring training) and would only return under circumstances favorable to him. As far as who I'd want on my team, the A's were being heavily considered for Bonds, but with Jack Cust & Mike Sweeney on board, I don't see the need for him. Clemens I would never want on my team, especially now. Edge for BB, because I think he still may have a little something left to offer a team.

03-02-2008, 08:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
adeel Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 545	Clemens is probably done. I don't think anyone needs a 45-year old pitcher (46 in August) whose ERA was over 4.00 last year. Bonds hit .471 with 4 home runs and 13 walks in the 2002 World Series (OPS of about 2).

03-02-2008, 09:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
adeel Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 545	He did help the Giants win, but there were other players on the team as well. I agree that he doesn't work with other players the way Clemens does, but a guy who stands a 50-50 chance of getting on base is a tremendous asset. I wouldn't want either on the Jays either, only because I don't want any cheaters on my favourite team.

03-06-2008, 09:44 AM	#12 (permalink)
Grandstander Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,819	Bonds showed that he can still make an excellent offensive contribution last season, what is keeping clubs from signing him isn't a fear of getting nothing for your money. Rather, it is how much money and how much grief would your club have to embrace in order to get whatever contribution Bonds could make. Barry has always equated money with respect and I can't see him offering his services cheaply. Does some club want to shell out 12 million for a DH who comes to the plate 400-450 times? Would that really be the difference between contending and one more crappy year for the Rays? Do they want to pay Bonds huge bucks so that they finish 19 games out of first place rather than 25? I think that if he is signed by a team at all, it won't be at the start of the season, and if it does happen during the season, it would be some club which is in contention but needs one more big bat to push them to the top. There is also the concern of how Bonds would be accepted by any group of fans outside of San Francisco. Everywhere else he was greeted like Judas at a fundamentalist's convention and not just because he was a rival player. Would a club sign a player who is likely to be booed by the home fans?

03-06-2008, 11:45 AM	#13 (permalink)
Nat Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 907	Heh...alot of that changes when he's on your team. Even Jeff Kent became a Dodger, David Cone a Red Sox, Jerry Rice a Raider, etc

03-08-2008, 12:27 AM	#14 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,409	FWIW, he needs just 65 its for 3,000. Some team might take him just for that if the price was right. As for signing someone the fans hate, the Braves signed Bobby Bonilia a few years ago. It wasn't a popular move, but he had a good season and was well received.

03-08-2008, 03:36 PM	#15 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,635	I'd take Barry Bonds. He's still one of the best hitters in the game. As a DH in a deep lineup, he'd hit 30+ HR, knock in 100+ runs and hit at least .270 with an OBA in excess of .400. If he's desperate enough to continue playing (so that he can reach 3,000 hits), maybe he would accept short money from a mediocre to bad team. If I'm the GM of the Oakland A's, Kansas City Royals, Baltimore Orioles or Tampa Bay Devil Rays, I'd sign him for 1 year/$5 million. He'd boost local attendance and push an otherwise uncompetitive team into respectability.