Should DP count against a player's value?

Triad · January 18th, 2008, 03:41 PM

The question is whether a player should be held responsible for the number of double plays he grounds into, and should it just count as a regular out. After all, he didn't put the runner on first base. It seems to be the product of hitting the ball hard and not being tremendously fast. It would also seem to occur more on teams that score a lot, because they would have more situations with runners on base.

I don't think a player has much control over the situation, but there are many variables here that we could discuss.

Players who have led the league in grounding into double plays:

Albert Pujols
Vladimir Guerrero
Miguel Tejada
Ivan Rodriguez
Tony Gwynn
Dale Murphy
Mike Piazza
Fred McGriff
Kirby Puckett
Wade Boggs
Gary Carter
Albert Belle
Cal Ripken
Jim Rice
Dave Parker
Al Oliver
Hank Aaron
Roberto Clemente
Carl Yastrzemski

It's interesting that Jim Rice has the two highest season totals in history (since it's been recorded), and three of the top ten.

WilsonC · January 18th, 2008, 04:00 PM

I think like a lot of numbers, raw DP numbers provide a fairly crude acount of an aspect of a player's ability. It's one of those "on the margins" stats, that has a very real negative value, but is also subject to opportunity.

Now, for DP rates expressed as a percentage of opportunities batting with a runner on first and less than 2 outs, I think that player it should definitely count against a player's value, if we're looking at the margins.

bedir than average · January 18th, 2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilsonC

I think like a lot of numbers, raw DP numbers provide a fairly crude acount of an aspect of a player's ability. It's one of those "on the margins" stats, that has a very real negative value, but is also subject to opportunity.

Now, for DP rates expressed as a percentage of opportunities batting with a runner on first and less than 2 outs, I think that player it should definitely count against a player's value, if we're looking at the margins.

I'd second that as a reasonable approach.

AmusingApparel · February 3rd, 2008, 02:41 PM

I agree; coming up, runner on first, no one out, or less than two out. You gotta at least move the runner to second base. It's not a runner on first and second situation; or bases loaded where there's a force at each base. That's much easier to accomplish, an out, that is. However, runner on first, no one out or less than 2 out, and you ground into a DP, that should count against the player's value. Intangibles are important in the game of baseball. Situational hitting is a major intangible and moving the runner along and keeping an inning going is vital.

Grounding into DP isn't just a product of hitting the ball hard and not being fast. It's also where you place the ball.

January 18th, 2008, 03:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
Triad Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 252	Should DP count against a player's value? The question is whether a player should be held responsible for the number of double plays he grounds into, and should it just count as a regular out. After all, he didn't put the runner on first base. It seems to be the product of hitting the ball hard and not being tremendously fast. It would also seem to occur more on teams that score a lot, because they would have more situations with runners on base. I don't think a player has much control over the situation, but there are many variables here that we could discuss. Players who have led the league in grounding into double plays: Albert Pujols Vladimir Guerrero Miguel Tejada Ivan Rodriguez Tony Gwynn Dale Murphy Mike Piazza Fred McGriff Kirby Puckett Wade Boggs Gary Carter Albert Belle Cal Ripken Jim Rice Dave Parker Al Oliver Hank Aaron Roberto Clemente Carl Yastrzemski It's interesting that Jim Rice has the two highest season totals in history (since it's been recorded), and three of the top ten.

February 3rd, 2008, 02:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
AmusingApparel Rookie Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New York Posts: 14	I agree; coming up, runner on first, no one out, or less than two out. You gotta at least move the runner to second base. It's not a runner on first and second situation; or bases loaded where there's a force at each base. That's much easier to accomplish, an out, that is. However, runner on first, no one out or less than 2 out, and you ground into a DP, that should count against the player's value. Intangibles are important in the game of baseball. Situational hitting is a major intangible and moving the runner along and keeping an inning going is vital. Grounding into DP isn't just a product of hitting the ball hard and not being fast. It's also where you place the ball. __________________ by Amusing Apparel http://www.AmusingApparel.com It's the NY Yankees' League -- but we welcome you to play in it. Check out my unique line of Yankee designs: Jobb Done A-Yankee / #13 Fenway Park -- Yankees Overflow Stadium!

January 18th, 2008, 04:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
WilsonC Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 121	I think like a lot of numbers, raw DP numbers provide a fairly crude acount of an aspect of a player's ability. It's one of those "on the margins" stats, that has a very real negative value, but is also subject to opportunity. Now, for DP rates expressed as a percentage of opportunities batting with a runner on first and less than 2 outs, I think that player it should definitely count against a player's value, if we're looking at the margins.