In Defense of Clemens and Bonds

[djwhokid]

I find this witch hunt against Barry Bonds and now Roger Clemens DISGUSTING.

We are we becoming such a bitter society? Why do we want to screw each other so badly? Whatever happened to compassion and understanding?

Let us get some factoids straight:

(1) We are accusing players of breaking rules that never existed in MLB. Now ask, why didn't baseball have strict rules? Maybe because the owners, not the players, benefitied the most from roids.

You really think the owners/GMs were completely in the dark? They gave these roided players millions of dollars (and continue to do so) to sell tickets and make $.

(2) Players like Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are victims/scapegoats of this war on steroids. How many athletes (pro, college, high school) actually take steroids? A LOT! And assuming Clemens and Bonds' name/legacy are disgraced further, how many will continue to use steroids? A LOT!

It would be like forcing a shock jock radio host out of job for saying a offensive three-letter word that millions of rappers use in their songs.... oh wait, that actually happened.

This notion that if we set an example to high-profile athletes, that it will somehow make baseball a steroid-free sport is quite.... silly. It only distracts us from the real problem.

This indeed is a witch hunt and Roger Clemens is in a no-win situation.

If Roger Clemens pulls a Andy Pettitte or David Justice, do you really think the media will let it go? Hell no. Maybe for a lesser name, but not someone like Clemens.

If Clemens admits he used steroids or HGH, well, he becomes someone like Steve Bartman and he and his family would have to go in hiding for at least 10 years or until ESPN finds another story to cover.

And why can't Clemens just defend himself? Well, we know that's not how our society works. Look at child custody hearings and rape allegations. If a women accuses you of rape and is pressing criminal charges, try talking to her and see if that helps your case. If people could address problems one-on-one we wouldn't need lawyers or the court system.

We have to stop this nonsense and stop being so damn hypocritical. The majority of us would stick a needle in our butt if we were in the same situation.

Players like Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are not the problem. Maybe we should target, I don't know, the supplement manufacturers?

[bedir than average]

(1) We are accusing players of breaking rules that never existed in MLB. Now ask, why didn't baseball have strict rules? Maybe because the owners, not the players, benefitied the most from roids.

The Mitchell Report clearly outlines the policies they broke, including drug policies that were in place before the 2002 agreement. Like taking drugs that the federal government had declared controlled substances.

You really think the owners/GMs were completely in the dark? They gave these roided players millions of dollars (and continue to do so) to sell tickets and make $.

Glad to see you agree with Mitchell as he pointed fingers at everyone involved in baseball at every level from former commissioners, current commissioners, owners, general managers, players, agents and the media.

(2) Players like Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are victims/scapegoats of this war on steroids. How many athletes (pro, college, high school) actually take steroids? A LOT! And assuming Clemens and Bonds' name/legacy are disgraced further, how many will continue to use steroids? A LOT!

Right, future faults mean that we shouldn't try and stop behavior that kills people.

Players like Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are not the problem. Maybe we should target, I don't know, the supplement manufacturers?

Baseball can only target those people within baseball. You will notice that the Federal Government is not going after users but after suppliers. Baseball can't ban BALCO from existing, the Fed Gov can. Please realize that MLB can only change what MLB does.

[pacino]

There's really no reason to outlaw steroids. Healthy adults should be able to make the decision. I see no problem with using them while aided by a doctor's supervision.

[kflo]

Originally Posted by djwhokid

Players like Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are not the problem. Maybe we should target, I don't know, the supplement manufacturers?

like balco?

remember, the trial bonds had immunity in?

[bedir than average]

Originally Posted by pacino

There's really no reason to outlaw steroids. Healthy adults should be able to make the decision. I see no problem with using them while aided by a doctor's supervision.

That's a decision for the federal government not MLB or NFL, etc.

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by kflo

like balco?

remember, the trial bonds had immunity in?

An excellent point....Barry Bonds is not being prosecuted because he took steroids, Barry Bonds is not being scapegoated as a symbol for all the other steroid users. Barry Bonds is being prosecuted by the Federal government because they have reason to believe that despite having immunity, he lied to the investogating grand jury. Had Bonds, as did Giambi and three of Bonds' Giants teammnates, come clean when he was testifying, he would not be facing perjury charges or steroid charges.

It's only a witchhunt if those doing the hunting are looking to convict the innocent.

[bedir than average]

The Official Site of Major League Baseball: News: Major League Baseball News

Clemens will now have to defend himself underoath. No more hiding behind a camera.

Welcome to the Congressional Investigation Roger.

[bedir than average]

Nation & World | Clemens, Pettitte asked to testify to Congress about injections | Seattle Times Newspaper

More details on the House investigation

WASHINGTON — Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte were asked Friday to testify before a congressional committee on Jan. 16, along with their former trainer, Brian McNamee.

Also invited to appear before the House Oversight Committee were former Mets clubhouse attendant Kirk Radomski, whose allegations were a central part of last month's Mitchell report on doping in baseball. Former All-Star second baseman Chuck Knoblauch also was asked to speak to the panel.

"It could be a circus with players, true," the committee's minority staff director, David Marin, said in a telephone interview. "But if you tailor it right and invite people who clearly have pertinent information about the substance of the report, then it's anything but a circus. It's substantive. That's what Democrats and Republicans have agreed to here."

A day earlier, the committee is to hear testimony from baseball commissioner Bud Selig, union leader Donald Fehr and former Senate majority leader George Mitchell.

I bolded the names for clarity.

[nanwynnfan]

Clemens was just interviewed on tonight's installment of "Sixty Minutes." Mike Wallace asked tough questions and repeated them, typical Mike Wallace; but Clemens remained resolute, denying he ever used, or was injected with, steroids.

In fact, Clemens, who admitted being injected many, many times throughout his advanced career, maintained it was mostly B-12 and a variety of painkillers. He was most visually upset by the fact that he, at several times, "chewed" down Vioxx; and he wondered how much lingering concern he had to have from long-term effects of that.

Clemens was very convincing, seemed eager for a chance to testify, and was unconvinced that any amount of denial would move those who'd already made up their minds about his guilt or innocence. "How do you prove innocence?" he asked Wallace.

As he put it, "The higher up the flag pole you climb, the more your behind is exposed. I know that."

[djwhokid]

Rocket is innocent until proven guilty.

I highly doubt Roger Clemens would lie. It just does not make any sense. What does he have to gain by using steroids?

Hopefully the truth comes out and Rocket will be vindicated. Also, actions must be taken against those who made such an effort to slander a good man.

[bedir than average]

Notice that if it were truly slander he still hasn't sued and neither has Bonds?

As for what Clemens had to gain, it was two CY and a World Series ring and about 100 Million dollars.

so nothing.

[Rapier]

Negative body language made it appear Roger Clemens was not telling the truth.

[nanwynnfan]

Originally Posted by bedir than average

Notice that if it were truly slander he still hasn't sued and neither has Bonds?

As for what Clemens had to gain, it was two CY and a World Series ring and about 100 Million dollars.

so nothing.

Glad that was brought up, especially the Cy Young Awards.

Clemens had won Cy Young Awards in 1986, '87, '91 and '97 without being suspected or charged with steroid abuse.

Then he ALLEGEDLY was shot with 'roids in '98 and '01. What came up, with a bit of emphasis, was the FACT that Clems went on to win yet another Cy Young in 2004, at the age of 41, a season where no 'roid injections have been alleged.

So, naive as it may seem, I'll go along witht the U.S. legal system that presumes Clemens innocent until proven guilty; with my own observations that Cy Young Awards were familiar territory for Clemens in many years where no allegations were made against him, and most especially that he put an explanation point on that last observation at the age of 41.

Don't know much about the bad body English vibes Clemens emitted during the interview. I didn't catch them in the eyes, voice tonality or steadiness of body poise.

[I do know he put some marvelous English on pitched baseballs though].

[bedir than average]

nan, why is there a two year penalty in running?

Hint: It isn't merely to dissuade one from using.

[nanwynnfan]

Originally Posted by bedir than average

nan, why is there a two year penalty in running?

Hint: It isn't merely to dissuade one from using.

I honestly do not understand the question and what running "rules" have to do with Roger Clemens.