Barry Bonds Indicted

indianadrew · 11-15-2007, 05:38 PM

i knew it would happen. today barroid bonds was indicted on federal charges. hows that for an astrisk!!

DR3AMR · 11-15-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Major League Baseball's all-time home run king Barry Bonds was indicted Thursday on perjury and obstruction justice charges, according to KTVU reporter Rita Williams.

The five-count indictment -- four counts of perjury and one of obstruciton of justice -- capped one of the longest federal grand jury investigations in Northern California history -- a proceeding that introduced the sports world to the acronym BALCO (Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative) and led to the downfall of American track and field world and Olympic champions Marion Jones, Kelli White and Tim Montgomery.

LINK

Edge · 11-15-2007, 05:48 PM

Once he is found guilty, I doubt he will get time in prison. But his name in the record books will disappear, which is good.

indianadrew · 11-15-2007, 05:49 PM

does this mean that anderson got tired of sitting in the can? i cant wait to see how this unfolds.
AP Sports | IndyStar.com

jtur88 · 11-15-2007, 06:02 PM

The man hit all those home runs. You can't make believe he didn't. How did steroids enhance his batting eye and his timing?

DiamondDave · 11-15-2007, 06:04 PM

May not help the eye and timing... as he was already a great hitter.... but extra strength can help a 280 foot out become a 315 foot HR... and the recovery aspect of roids can make it that he is fresher after a 6 game work week on the field....

Roxpert · 11-15-2007, 06:11 PM

This, along with the pending Mitchell Report, will cast a pall on the game this winter. I wonder if A-Rod's sudden "change of heart" and desire to re-sign with the Yankees quickly is at all related to the coming flood of news on steroids. Let's hope not.

kflo · 11-15-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtur88

The man hit all those home runs. You can't make believe he didn't. How did steroids enhance his batting eye and his timing?

lol.

Anecdotally it doesn't make you curious that the guys who shattered home run records were bonds, sosa and mcgwire? that the greatest seasons in baseball history were achieved by a guy nearing 40?

that's just anecdotally. conceptually, stronger leads to greater bat speed leading to greater force, more reflex time, heavier bat. noone can argue he wasn't a great player pre-roids. post-roids, he became the best hitter ever.

DR3AMR · 11-15-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtur88

The man hit all those home runs. You can't make believe he didn't. How did steroids enhance his batting eye and his timing?

Strength = Bat Speed
Bat Speed = More HRs

jtur88 · 11-15-2007, 06:19 PM

OK. Make believe he didn't hit them. Without steroids, he only would have hit 600. How good is that? Never mind--take them all away.

McGwire and Sosa hit all those homers, nobody wondered how, and ten yeas later baseball was still letting Bonds make a --- no, wait, still letting Bonds show what a grubbing travesty MLB is.

Question: How much additional revenue did MLB make as a result of McGwire, Sosa and Bonds being there hitting all those homers? How much of that tainted money does MLB plan to asterisk back to us? MLB's accountants loved steroids the way Fox News loved the Iraq war.

BigRapidsJackass · 11-15-2007, 06:20 PM

Kind of makes me wonder what the Giants were doing last year. They could've easily passed on re-signing Bonds. They could've even released him when (as soon as the end of May) it became obvious that their season was lost. Did they really need to keep trotting him out there just so he could break the record?

I have zero respect for that formerly-great franchise.

fellow59 · 11-15-2007, 06:25 PM

OK. Make believe he didn't hit them. Without steroids, he only would have hit 600. How good is that?

Good enough to be one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Unfortunately for Bonds, that still wasn't good enough for him.

1Perry · 11-15-2007, 07:45 PM

Seems some don't think anyone should be held accountable for anything they do.

Quote:

McGwire and Sosa hit all those homers, nobody wondered how, and ten yeas later baseball was still letting Bonds make a --- no, wait, still letting Bonds show what a grubbing travesty MLB is.

Yes they did. Not during the start of 98 but as the season went along the questions did start. McGwire ended up getting hounded over the issue. McGwire is now a Pariah as far as MLB is concerned. He will not make the HOF because of his actions.

You are right though about baseball. Bud Selig should be indicted also as an accessory to a crime.

Triad · 11-16-2007, 01:31 PM

Why do people think that only the home run leaders took steroids? What advantage did Bonds have over the rest of the league? And if steroids improve performance as suggested, why aren't there hundreds of examples of players improving drastically due to steroid use?

Did you know that Bonds' HR/AB increase in the last part of his career was less percentage-wise than Hank Aaron's HR/AB increase?

Before any of you cite the Braves' move to Fulton County Stadium, keep the following in mind... In the four-year period pre-1966 Fulton County Stadium, Aaron had two yearly HR/500AB rates of 35 and 38. His first four at Fulton (1966-1969) were 36, 32, 24, 40. His next four were 37, 47, 38, 51. If Fulton had an advantage, it waited six years to kick in, and only happend in two of those eight seasons.

In the eight years Aaron played at Fulton, he averaged only five more home runs at home than on the road. And in two of those eight years, he actually had more HR on the road than at Fulton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiamondDave

Extra strength can help a 280 foot out become a 315 foot HR... and the recovery aspect of roids can make it that he is fresher after a 6 game work week on the field....

As to steroids themselves, they are highly overrated as aids to home run hitting. McGwire, Ruth, Maris, Sosa and Bonds rarely hit balls to the warning track. When they connected the balls were gone, far over the wall. This was true throughout their careers. Bonds and Maris were line drive hitters earlier in their careers, but once they developed as home run hitters (a home run hitter swings slightly upward to launch the ball at a 35 degree angle and hits the ball just below center as opposed to a line drive hitter who has a level swing and hits the ball in the center) their home runs landed in the seats, not on the warning track. Were steroids effective at increasing bat speed (and they have not been shown to), they could increase home runs by lengthening warning track hits by 10 to 20 feet. Dr. Adair estimates that about 1 hit lands on the track for every 10 home runs. For Ruth, Maris, et al far fewer balls land on the track for every home run they hit. Suppose it is 1 out of 25. This means that, at most, higher bat speed would increase home runs by 1 to 3 a year in these great hitters. So, the test of steroids would be to calculate the number of warning track hits relative to home runs for a known steroid user and show that what were previously warning track shots become home runs. No one has produced this evidence.
http://www.arthurdevany.com/webstuff...yHomeRunMS.pdf

nanwynnfan · 11-16-2007, 05:31 PM

Going with the Adair formula [if simplified], here's what the bat spped and pitch speed contribute to distance, assuming the ball is well hit, sweet spot [or near, on bat] full on with the ball, with a 33-37 degree of incline in the swing:

... at contact:

bat speed contribution = bat speed * 1.2

pitch speed = .25

So a batter with 65 mph bat speed [65*1.2] = 78 mph

Pitcher @ 80 mph [80*.25] = 20 mph total = 78 = 20 = 98 mph contact speed

A simple down and dirty formula can then estimate the final forward velocity of the ball in its descent to the ground, where a hard liner might hit the stands @ 40 mph; and a rainmaker high fly might descend at 10 mph forward speed. Then the average of the two allows you to project the distance.

A weak-hitting batter with 65 mph bat speed hitting a pitched ball coming in at 80 mph that qualifies as well-hit, may average 78+35/2 = 56.5 mph. With a 4.0 second flight time, his drive will travel @ 331 feet.

A batter with 80 mph bat speed hitting the same exact pitch will have 112+35 = 73.5 mph average speed; and if the ball has the same flight time, the ball will travel 432 feet.

The elite power guys may generate 80 mph and I'd guess power, hip movement, arm and back strength + a few ounces on a bat's weight might max out at that speed. If the average is @ 70 mph, that identical pitched ball may go 408 feet.

If we compare the elite guys to average, it's a reasonable estimate that a 14.3% hike in bat speed, given our sample pitch, gets the batter and added 24 feet of distance.

11-15-2007, 05:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
indianadrew Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: indianapolis Posts: 570	Barry Bonds Indicted i knew it would happen. today barroid bonds was indicted on federal charges. hows that for an astrisk!!

11-15-2007, 06:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,852	The man hit all those home runs. You can't make believe he didn't. How did steroids enhance his batting eye and his timing? __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much.

11-15-2007, 06:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
DiamondDave Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MD, on the Potomac River Posts: 5,390	May not help the eye and timing... as he was already a great hitter.... but extra strength can help a 280 foot out become a 315 foot HR... and the recovery aspect of roids can make it that he is fresher after a 6 game work week on the field.... __________________ Reagan in 08... Even though he's dead, he's the better choice! Superdelegates - Because even the Democratic party knows it's base is too stupid to make really important decisions.

11-15-2007, 06:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,852	OK. Make believe he didn't hit them. Without steroids, he only would have hit 600. How good is that? Never mind--take them all away. McGwire and Sosa hit all those homers, nobody wondered how, and ten yeas later baseball was still letting Bonds make a --- no, wait, still letting Bonds show what a grubbing travesty MLB is. Question: How much additional revenue did MLB make as a result of McGwire, Sosa and Bonds being there hitting all those homers? How much of that tainted money does MLB plan to asterisk back to us? MLB's accountants loved steroids the way Fox News loved the Iraq war. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much.

11-15-2007, 05:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
Edge Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 482	Once he is found guilty, I doubt he will get time in prison. But his name in the record books will disappear, which is good.

11-15-2007, 05:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
indianadrew Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: indianapolis Posts: 570	does this mean that anderson got tired of sitting in the can? i cant wait to see how this unfolds. AP Sports \| IndyStar.com

11-15-2007, 06:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,059	This, along with the pending Mitchell Report, will cast a pall on the game this winter. I wonder if A-Rod's sudden "change of heart" and desire to re-sign with the Yankees quickly is at all related to the coming flood of news on steroids. Let's hope not.

11-15-2007, 06:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,147	Kind of makes me wonder what the Giants were doing last year. They could've easily passed on re-signing Bonds. They could've even released him when (as soon as the end of May) it became obvious that their season was lost. Did they really need to keep trotting him out there just so he could break the record? I have zero respect for that formerly-great franchise.

11-15-2007, 06:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
fellow59 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,634	OK. Make believe he didn't hit them. Without steroids, he only would have hit 600. How good is that? Good enough to be one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Unfortunately for Bonds, that still wasn't good enough for him.

11-16-2007, 05:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
nanwynnfan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,579	Going with the Adair formula [if simplified], here's what the bat spped and pitch speed contribute to distance, assuming the ball is well hit, sweet spot [or near, on bat] full on with the ball, with a 33-37 degree of incline in the swing: ... at contact: bat speed contribution = bat speed * 1.2 pitch speed = .25 So a batter with 65 mph bat speed [651.2] = 78 mph Pitcher @ 80 mph [80.25] = 20 mph total = 78 = 20 = 98 mph contact speed A simple down and dirty formula can then estimate the final forward velocity of the ball in its descent to the ground, where a hard liner might hit the stands @ 40 mph; and a rainmaker high fly might descend at 10 mph forward speed. Then the average of the two allows you to project the distance. A weak-hitting batter with 65 mph bat speed hitting a pitched ball coming in at 80 mph that qualifies as well-hit, may average 78+35/2 = 56.5 mph. With a 4.0 second flight time, his drive will travel @ 331 feet. A batter with 80 mph bat speed hitting the same exact pitch will have 112+35 = 73.5 mph average speed; and if the ball has the same flight time, the ball will travel 432 feet. The elite power guys may generate 80 mph and I'd guess power, hip movement, arm and back strength + a few ounces on a bat's weight might max out at that speed. If the average is @ 70 mph, that identical pitched ball may go 408 feet. If we compare the elite guys to average, it's a reasonable estimate that a 14.3% hike in bat speed, given our sample pitch, gets the batter and added 24 feet of distance.