Legal advice?

jtur88 · August 12th, 2008, 09:27 PM

A woman I know needed a car, so her estranged husband took her to a car dealer and bought her one. She signed for the car, but has no credit, so he co-signed, and promised to pay. He never made a payment, and when tracked down by the lender, he reported the car stolen. Now she has been arrested for auto theft, is spending tonight in jail, to be arraigned tomorrow morning, bail likely to be $3-5,000. She was handed the key to the car by a person who authorized her to use the car, and who is liable for the payments, and the title is in her name. How good is her criminal defense?

Snowman · August 13th, 2008, 04:04 AM

Hell, she's the co-signer and it's in her name? There ain't a DA in the country that will prosecute her for theft without some evidence beyond this jackass's word.

indianadrew · August 13th, 2008, 06:11 AM

HE is the cosigner, not her. even more support for her case. the story seems a bit odd though JTUR. i dont think that you have all the facts.

jtur88 · August 13th, 2008, 07:08 AM

Bond has been set at $30,000.

I do not know for a fact that the husband is the co-signer, but I do know that there is no way in the world that she, alone, got credit to buy a car without a cosigner. I also know that the husband accompanied her to the car dealer and handled the transaction.

Grandstander · August 13th, 2008, 07:21 AM

What's missing here is an explanation as to why he reported the car stolen. Clearly between the time of the purchase and the time that the payment was due, something took place which caused the cooperative relationship to deteriorate. In the absense of knowing his motivations, judgment on this must wait.

jtur88 · August 13th, 2008, 08:21 AM

This guy fits every definition of the sociopathic personality disorder, and never had any intention of making any car payment. He knew he could hold it against her. The three lawyers I have talked to all said the jails are full of victims of people like him, they see them all the time. Sociopaths feed off the judicial system, which does all their heavy lifting for them. He had her living in a crap-hole of a house, where he paid the rent at eviction deadlines and the utility bills only after they had been cut off. She had had no car at all for 6 months prior to this vehicle, in a tiny town with no public transport. He got food-stamps fraudulently, and kept the card himself. He is defrauding the department of welfare, is $19,000 in arrears for prior child support, is accused by her daughter of molesting her. These fact have all been reported to authorities, who might investigate it if it ever works itw way up through the backlog.. And HE gets to send HER to jail. There's your motive---he knows he can do whatever he wants.

Grandstander · August 13th, 2008, 08:34 AM

So then you are saying that the car purchase was always part of a plan to have her put in jail?

I do not know the people involved and I do not know to what degree, if any, the woman may be seen as responsible for her own problems. There are some things which I would consider likely based on past experiences with such doings. You have described the male as sociopathic and an unjust exploiter of the welfare system, yet the woman in the story married him. Are we to believe that during the time of the marriage, his conduct was different and he was not conducting the sorts of frauds which seem to be his standard m.o.? And that the woman was not accepting whatever benefits came her way as a consequence of these frauds?

This may be a case of a scuzzy person victimizing an innocent woman, or it may be a case of a falling out among thieves. I'd really have to know the people to form an opinion. Are you in contact with the male or is 100 % of your information on what happened coming from one side of the dispute?

jtur88 · August 13th, 2008, 09:19 AM

They've been married for something like 15 years, and she stayed in the marriage for the benefit of the two children, the older of which he has already removed to his sole custody just by taking his hand and walking away with him. The separation has been off and on for the whole time. She has done a lot of things that are unwise or badly advised, but none that are unkind or malicious. She paid a lawyer a retainer 15 months ago to file for divorce, and he has all the necessary information, but has done nothing and will not return her calls. A previous attorney, hired for the same purpose, at least paid her the courtesy of telling her that the retainer had been exhausted, but would not send her an itemized statement.

I bet the state bar's ethical board can't wait to get their teeth into those guys' throats.

apicalbodscan · August 13th, 2008, 09:35 AM

I know an attorney that is looking for work.

jtur88 · August 13th, 2008, 09:59 AM

GS,, I understand that you need to know the people in order to form an opinion. However, does this not smack of a routine civil repossession, on a vehicle with payment in arrears, in a case where a responsible co-signer can readily be found by the lenders and is making no effort to evade them? The car has been parked daily at the address shown on the registration certificate, up until about 10 days ago.

jtur88 · August 13th, 2008, 10:22 AM

The first two lawyers I talked to said, basically, she is SOL. However, it is looking brighter. I talked to the head of the Public Defender's office, and she seems very sympathetic to the case, and will try to cut through some of the usual procedures. Also, I talked to the local newspaper reporter who does the courtroom beat, and he is fascinated by the story. One of the most productive things than can happen is to get somebody with access to ask some hard questions to influential people, and potentially report what they say.

jtur88 · August 13th, 2008, 02:31 PM

The plot thickens. She has been booked for possession of stolen property, Class 2 Felony, 2-10 years.

I phoned my bro-in-law, who is a 30-year veteran metro cop. He is willing to bet his paycheck that this car was hot before it even got to sold to my friend. Probably, title printed on a computer, and the plates are from a junkyard.

I do not know at this point whether this was a routine traffic stop and the VIN didn't float, or whether there was a bulletin out on the vehicle, but she was stopped three counties away from the registered address and the dealer.

apicalbodscan · August 13th, 2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtur88

The plot thickens. She has been booked for possession of stolen property, Class 2 Felony, 2-10 years.

I phoned my bro-in-law, who is a 30-year veteran metro cop. He is willing to bet his paycheck that this car was hot before it even got to sold to my friend. Probably, title printed on a computer, and the plates are from a junkyard.

I do not know at this point whether this was a routine traffic stop and the VIN didn't float, or whether there was a bulletin out on the vehicle, but she was stopped three counties away from the registered address and the dealer.

I'm no lawyer, but if she has a lifelong clean record, I'd say most prosecuters would likely smell a rat.

Or not.

obxmetsfan · August 13th, 2008, 04:51 PM

My ex and I are fairly civil and I cannot fathom co-signing anything for her. That's what her family is there for IMO.

Sounds to me like he was trying to set her up.

baidaho · August 13th, 2008, 05:13 PM

Just a hunch, but I wouldn't be surprised if she knew more about everything than she has been telling Jtur.

August 12th, 2008, 09:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,857	Legal advice? A woman I know needed a car, so her estranged husband took her to a car dealer and bought her one. She signed for the car, but has no credit, so he co-signed, and promised to pay. He never made a payment, and when tracked down by the lender, he reported the car stolen. Now she has been arrested for auto theft, is spending tonight in jail, to be arraigned tomorrow morning, bail likely to be $3-5,000. She was handed the key to the car by a person who authorized her to use the car, and who is liable for the payments, and the title is in her name. How good is her criminal defense? __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much. Last edited by jtur88; August 12th, 2008 at 09:36 PM.

August 13th, 2008, 04:04 AM	#2 (permalink)
Snowman Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North Topsail Beach, NC Posts: 1,334	Hell, she's the co-signer and it's in her name? There ain't a DA in the country that will prosecute her for theft without some evidence beyond this jackass's word. __________________ That corpse you planted last year in your garden, Has it begun to sprout? Will it bloom this year? Or has the sudden frost disturbed its bed? If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college.

August 13th, 2008, 07:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,857	Bond has been set at $30,000. I do not know for a fact that the husband is the co-signer, but I do know that there is no way in the world that she, alone, got credit to buy a car without a cosigner. I also know that the husband accompanied her to the car dealer and handled the transaction. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much. Last edited by jtur88; August 13th, 2008 at 07:10 AM.

August 13th, 2008, 08:21 AM	#6 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,857	This guy fits every definition of the sociopathic personality disorder, and never had any intention of making any car payment. He knew he could hold it against her. The three lawyers I have talked to all said the jails are full of victims of people like him, they see them all the time. Sociopaths feed off the judicial system, which does all their heavy lifting for them. He had her living in a crap-hole of a house, where he paid the rent at eviction deadlines and the utility bills only after they had been cut off. She had had no car at all for 6 months prior to this vehicle, in a tiny town with no public transport. He got food-stamps fraudulently, and kept the card himself. He is defrauding the department of welfare, is $19,000 in arrears for prior child support, is accused by her daughter of molesting her. These fact have all been reported to authorities, who might investigate it if it ever works itw way up through the backlog.. And HE gets to send HER to jail. There's your motive---he knows he can do whatever he wants. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much. Last edited by jtur88; August 13th, 2008 at 08:25 AM.

August 13th, 2008, 09:19 AM	#8 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,857	They've been married for something like 15 years, and she stayed in the marriage for the benefit of the two children, the older of which he has already removed to his sole custody just by taking his hand and walking away with him. The separation has been off and on for the whole time. She has done a lot of things that are unwise or badly advised, but none that are unkind or malicious. She paid a lawyer a retainer 15 months ago to file for divorce, and he has all the necessary information, but has done nothing and will not return her calls. A previous attorney, hired for the same purpose, at least paid her the courtesy of telling her that the retainer had been exhausted, but would not send her an itemized statement. I bet the state bar's ethical board can't wait to get their teeth into those guys' throats. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much. Last edited by jtur88; August 13th, 2008 at 09:22 AM.

August 13th, 2008, 06:11 AM	#3 (permalink)
indianadrew Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: indianapolis Posts: 698	HE is the cosigner, not her. even more support for her case. the story seems a bit odd though JTUR. i dont think that you have all the facts.

August 13th, 2008, 07:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
Grandstander Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Northern California Posts: 6,616	What's missing here is an explanation as to why he reported the car stolen. Clearly between the time of the purchase and the time that the payment was due, something took place which caused the cooperative relationship to deteriorate. In the absense of knowing his motivations, judgment on this must wait.

August 13th, 2008, 08:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
Grandstander Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Northern California Posts: 6,616	So then you are saying that the car purchase was always part of a plan to have her put in jail? I do not know the people involved and I do not know to what degree, if any, the woman may be seen as responsible for her own problems. There are some things which I would consider likely based on past experiences with such doings. You have described the male as sociopathic and an unjust exploiter of the welfare system, yet the woman in the story married him. Are we to believe that during the time of the marriage, his conduct was different and he was not conducting the sorts of frauds which seem to be his standard m.o.? And that the woman was not accepting whatever benefits came her way as a consequence of these frauds? This may be a case of a scuzzy person victimizing an innocent woman, or it may be a case of a falling out among thieves. I'd really have to know the people to form an opinion. Are you in contact with the male or is 100 % of your information on what happened coming from one side of the dispute?

August 13th, 2008, 09:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
apicalbodscan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,448	I know an attorney that is looking for work.

August 13th, 2008, 09:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,857	GS,, I understand that you need to know the people in order to form an opinion. However, does this not smack of a routine civil repossession, on a vehicle with payment in arrears, in a case where a responsible co-signer can readily be found by the lenders and is making no effort to evade them? The car has been parked daily at the address shown on the registration certificate, up until about 10 days ago. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much.

August 13th, 2008, 10:22 AM	#11 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,857	The first two lawyers I talked to said, basically, she is SOL. However, it is looking brighter. I talked to the head of the Public Defender's office, and she seems very sympathetic to the case, and will try to cut through some of the usual procedures. Also, I talked to the local newspaper reporter who does the courtroom beat, and he is fascinated by the story. One of the most productive things than can happen is to get somebody with access to ask some hard questions to influential people, and potentially report what they say. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much.

August 13th, 2008, 02:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,857	The plot thickens. She has been booked for possession of stolen property, Class 2 Felony, 2-10 years. I phoned my bro-in-law, who is a 30-year veteran metro cop. He is willing to bet his paycheck that this car was hot before it even got to sold to my friend. Probably, title printed on a computer, and the plates are from a junkyard. I do not know at this point whether this was a routine traffic stop and the VIN didn't float, or whether there was a bulletin out on the vehicle, but she was stopped three counties away from the registered address and the dealer. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much. Last edited by jtur88; August 13th, 2008 at 02:34 PM.

August 13th, 2008, 04:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
obxmetsfan Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The OBX Posts: 736	My ex and I are fairly civil and I cannot fathom co-signing anything for her. That's what her family is there for IMO. Sounds to me like he was trying to set her up.

August 13th, 2008, 05:13 PM	#15 (permalink)
baidaho Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 300	Just a hunch, but I wouldn't be surprised if she knew more about everything than she has been telling Jtur.

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