Living in an apartment sucks

DR3AMR · 06-29-2008, 09:46 AM

Our lease is up at the end of August, so we have to give notice by Monday.

Yesterday, we went to meet wth the manager about negotiating the price for a renewal. We want the 12 month rate for a 6 month period. The 6 month rate is about $150 more than the 12 month rate. We've lived here for seven years now...been good tenants...never had a late payment, etc.

She immemdiately balked at our proposal saying if she did it for us, then she'd have to do it for everyone who was renewing a lease. OK...fine. But, she backed up her position by hiding behind the Fair Housing Act. Which, as my wife prompty pointed out, has absolutely nothing to do with the situation.

We then got her to admit that if we walked in off the street we could rent the apartment we're in now for $14 less per month than what we're renting it for now. And yet they want to make us pay almost $200 more if we renew? That's absolutely ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as her suggestion that for a small $150 processing fee we could move to another two bedroom apartment in the complex and get the "walk in off the street" price. She told us that with a straight face.

Anyway, she's supposed to talk to her area manager about our proposal and get back to us Tuesday.

jtur88 · 06-29-2008, 10:39 AM

The apartment management companies have more money than you do, so they have better lawyers and they have lobbyists in the state legislature. This is America. You lose. Why has it taken you so long to learn this?

Next time you rent an apartment, YOU write the lease and walk in and say "sign here and here and here and initial here and here and hare". See how hard they laugh. This is America. You lose. The winner is on his sailboat with a bunch of chicks in the Bahamas.

DD says the winner earned every penny of it, by being personally responsible.

baidaho · 06-29-2008, 11:13 AM

I had one pretty bad experience myself when I was temporarily renting a place a couple of winters ago. I ended up giving up trying to get my deposit back in a case when I knew the money was owed. I even had a lawyer write a threatening letter. What I came away from it is about what Jtur just mentioned. You don't stand a chance. And something to think about, if you move out and move back in, be ready to fight for your deposit. They have plenty of ways to make sure you never see it again.

The interest rates are low, the housing prices may be a their bottom.........

dlb · 06-29-2008, 11:53 AM

You could get snaky on 'em. Don't renew your lease. When it expires, start paying $14 less per month. It's hard to evict a paying tenant and the effort will take at least six months.

Grandstander · 06-29-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtur88

The apartment management companies have more money than you do, so they have better lawyers and they have lobbyists in the state legislature. This is America. You lose. Why has it taken you so long to learn this?

Next time you rent an apartment, YOU write the lease and walk in and say "sign here and here and here and initial here and here and hare". See how hard they laugh. This is America. You lose. The winner is on his sailboat with a bunch of chicks in the Bahamas.

DD says the winner earned every penny of it, by being personally responsible.

I'm a home owner now and very glad to be through with the one sided contracts that apartment owners shove at tenants with no expectation of them being viewed as unfair. Ever notice that the bulk of a lease agreement centers on the rights of the landlord and the obligations of the tenant? Try and find a paragraph that addresses the rights of the tenant and the obligations of the landlord, or the penalties the landlord will have imposed upon him if he fails to meet his obligations.

Why is the tenant automatically considered some sort of risk for not living up to contractual obligations, so much so that a deposit is required in anticipation of the landlord needing to be able to compensate his or her self without having to go to court? The landlord does not have to back up his or her obligations with any sort of deposit. Why not? Why not have the landlord put up 500 bucks in anticipation of delays in getting repairs done and if such delays materialize, the tenant deducts a fair amount?

jtur88 · 06-29-2008, 02:57 PM

Having said that, I must add that the last three apartment complexes that I lived in, they refunded every cent of my deposit, and allowed me to move out on 30-days notice without penalty in spite of any provisions of the lease, and promplty responded to every request I ever had for repairs or maintenance. They were located in Florida, Missouri and Michigan.

heyterry · 06-29-2008, 06:23 PM

I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but if you feel that things are tipped in favor of the landlord, by all means, buy some properties.

I have three houses that I rent out. For the most part, I've had good tennants who fulfilled their obligations and got their deposits back. I've had two people that I had to throw out. One I had to take to court and spend $1600 to recover $1800, the other, I had to threaten to get my money.

I've had two tennants who decided to break their leases by leaving before their contract was up. I told both of them that if I had someone move in, I'd prorate their deposit and return the appropriate percentage back to them. One guy received half his money back after it took a month to find a suitable renter. He *****ed like crazy that I was screwing him over. The other place took three months to lease and nothing was returned to the tennant who broke his lease (which cost me money). He said that he was going to kill me. I told him where I'd be and he never showed.

I guess if you're uncomfortable with the lease, you should shop around and see if there's a better deal out there for you.

AlexdeLarge · 06-30-2008, 06:35 AM

buy a house dude, paying rent is like flushing money down the toilet

Nat · 06-30-2008, 07:32 AM

I hear you Dreamer; we're in the same situation. Next time the wife & I will be sure to deal with a private landlord who we can negotiate with person-to-person, rather than person-to-company.

frenchman · 06-30-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

GS: Why is the tenant automatically considered some sort of risk for not living up to contractual obligations, so much so that a deposit is required in anticipation of the landlord needing to be able to compensate his or her self without having to go to court?

...I guess its similar to why we all pay high credit card rates.
Maybe I used to hang out with lower forms of appt dwellers...but in NYC, most people I knew would skip out on last months rent when moving, and move appts, leaving the landlord with an appt to fill and usually some minor damage/repair/painting needing to be done.
Now, landlords in NYC had little problem filling those appts in a nanosecond, but I am sure it was an inconvenience...but without the deposit, I am sure many renters would skip out on last months rent
To be fair to the renters, and I did this as well, we were used to stories of landlords withholding security deposits on trumped up charges of damages or lengthy waits for refunded deposits to be sent...so, things found a natural way to work out

jtur88 · 06-30-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heyterry

I guess if you're uncomfortable with the lease, you should shop around and see if there's a better deal out there for you.

Oh yeah? Where do you get your leases? Do you write them yourself, or do you download them from the internet or purchased in a kit from an office supply house? Shopping around will only turn up a lot more landlords who have downloaded exactly the same standard lease.

Use your leases as an example, and show us some language that is specifically placed there to protect the tenant against an unscrupulous landlord. What would you say if a tenent walked in with a lease that HE drew up? Shop around for a tenant who walks in with a better lease?

Grandstander · 06-30-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heyterry

I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but if you feel that things are tipped in favor of the landlord, by all means, buy some properties.

I have three houses that I rent out. For the most part, I've had good tennants who fulfilled their obligations and got their deposits back. I've had two people that I had to throw out. One I had to take to court and spend $1600 to recover $1800, the other, I had to threaten to get my money.

I've had two tennants who decided to break their leases by leaving before their contract was up. I told both of them that if I had someone move in, I'd prorate their deposit and return the appropriate percentage back to them. One guy received half his money back after it took a month to find a suitable renter. He *****ed like crazy that I was screwing him over. The other place took three months to lease and nothing was returned to the tennant who broke his lease (which cost me money). He said that he was going to kill me. I told him where I'd be and he never showed.

I guess if you're uncomfortable with the lease, you should shop around and see if there's a better deal out there for you.

People behave badly on both sides of a lease agreement, what is fair cannot be decided on the bais of anecdotes. As I noted, regardless of how things happen to work out for a particular landlord or a particular tenant, things are stacked now in favor of the landlord. I should think this obvious when the situation is one where one party to the contract has to advance money to the other in anticipation of contractual failures, while the other does not.

Consider the situation that you described....you called all the shots, you informed the tenant how much or how little of their deposit they would be receiving and it was going to be based on your convenience. You held that tenant to the letter of the law and you were able to do so because you were holding the money. If the tenant objected or thought that there were legal reasons as to why he or she was entitled to the entire deposit back, they would have had to bring a lawsuit....because you were holding the $.

In any situation where two parties are disputing legal ownership of a thousand dollars, it will always be better to be the person who currently is holding onto the money. If the other person wants it, then they must incur the expense and inconvenience of seeking a legal remedy, while the person holding the money prevails by default if nothing is done. The person holding the money only loses if the lawsuit is successful. That is not even remotely fair.

Please...take none of this as any sort of suggestion that you are less than honest, fair and accomodating with your tenants, but do understand that you are in a position of advantage, one that a tenant never enjoys.

heyterry · 07-01-2008, 09:51 AM

jtur

Oh yeah? Where do you get your leases? Do you write them yourself, or do you download them from the internet or purchased in a kit from an office supply house? Shopping around will only turn up a lot more landlords who have downloaded exactly the same standard lease.

Use your leases as an example, and show us some language that is specifically placed there to protect the tenant against an unscrupulous landlord. What would you say if a tenent walked in with a lease that HE drew up? Shop around for a tenant who walks in with a better lease?

Terry..........I had my lease drawn up by a lawyer and have made additions to it over the years. My lease was written to protect me, not the tenant. I have a substantial investment and the purpose of having the lease written was to protect my investment and myself.

I'm looking for a relationship with a renter that provides them a nice place to live at a price that is set for a year. I can't throw them out because someone is willing to pay me more rent and I can't increase their rent.

If someone brought their own lease, why would I sign it? My lease does what it is supposed to do..... it protects me.

Again, if you see the lessor as having a huge advantage, buy some properties. I'm afraid that you might be disappointed. Many landlords only make $100 to $200 profit per month (before repairs).

Grandstander:

As I noted, regardless of how things happen to work out for a particular landlord or a particular tenant, things are stacked now in favor of the landlord.

Terry..... Why would I not want things stacked in my favor?

Grandstander:

You held that tenant to the letter of the law and you were able to do so because you were holding the money.
In any situation where two parties are disputing legal ownership of a thousand dollars, it will always be better to be the person who currently is holding onto the money. If the other person wants it, then they must incur the expense and inconvenience of seeking a legal remedy, while the person holding the money prevails by default if nothing is done. The person holding the money only loses if the lawsuit is successful. That is not even remotely fair.

Terry..... Actually, I didn't hold them to the letter of the law. The lease says that if they decide to move out before the end of the lease, they lose their deposit. I offered to refund a pro-rated portion of their deposit if I could get a new tenant in place. I didn't have to refund them anything.
Why would I not want the advantage in my favor? I have a lot of money invested. The two times that I let tenants get the advantage, it cost me 1600 to collect 1800 and I had to play serious hardball and threaten a guy's family to get my money. Lesson learned. I don't want to be in that position again.

Grandstander:
Please...take none of this as any sort of suggestion that you are less than honest, fair and accomodating with your tenants, but do understand that you are in a position of advantage, one that a tenant never enjoys.

Terry.....I understand your point and I agree. I want to see things happen fairly. However, if things go bad, I want to be in a position of advantage. (I can't help but think of your Stratego game!)

Grandstander · 07-01-2008, 10:27 AM

Terry.....

Quote:

However, if things go bad, I want to be in a position of advantage. (I can't help but think of your Stratego game!)

The tenant would also like to be in that position. As for the Stratego game...A) I acknowledged that this was cheating, and B) It was a game with no money at stake

jtur88 · 07-01-2008, 10:28 AM

""" My lease does what it is supposed to do..... it protects me. """

My fists do what they are supposed to do---they beat up littler kids who have lunch money. They protect me.

06-29-2008, 09:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
DR3AMR Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 4,654	Living in an apartment sucks Our lease is up at the end of August, so we have to give notice by Monday. Yesterday, we went to meet wth the manager about negotiating the price for a renewal. We want the 12 month rate for a 6 month period. The 6 month rate is about $150 more than the 12 month rate. We've lived here for seven years now...been good tenants...never had a late payment, etc. She immemdiately balked at our proposal saying if she did it for us, then she'd have to do it for everyone who was renewing a lease. OK...fine. But, she backed up her position by hiding behind the Fair Housing Act. Which, as my wife prompty pointed out, has absolutely nothing to do with the situation. We then got her to admit that if we walked in off the street we could rent the apartment we're in now for $14 less per month than what we're renting it for now. And yet they want to make us pay almost $200 more if we renew? That's absolutely ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as her suggestion that for a small $150 processing fee we could move to another two bedroom apartment in the complex and get the "walk in off the street" price. She told us that with a straight face. Anyway, she's supposed to talk to her area manager about our proposal and get back to us Tuesday. __________________ "Why would Barack Obama be friends with someone who bombed the US Capitol and is proud of it?"

06-29-2008, 10:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,666	The apartment management companies have more money than you do, so they have better lawyers and they have lobbyists in the state legislature. This is America. You lose. Why has it taken you so long to learn this? Next time you rent an apartment, YOU write the lease and walk in and say "sign here and here and here and initial here and here and hare". See how hard they laugh. This is America. You lose. The winner is on his sailboat with a bunch of chicks in the Bahamas. DD says the winner earned every penny of it, by being personally responsible. __________________ ------------------ "Capitalism is morally neutral." Last edited by jtur88; 06-29-2008 at 10:43 AM.

06-29-2008, 02:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,666	Having said that, I must add that the last three apartment complexes that I lived in, they refunded every cent of my deposit, and allowed me to move out on 30-days notice without penalty in spite of any provisions of the lease, and promplty responded to every request I ever had for repairs or maintenance. They were located in Florida, Missouri and Michigan. __________________ ------------------ "Capitalism is morally neutral."

06-30-2008, 06:35 AM	#8 (permalink)
AlexdeLarge Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: England Posts: 1,037	buy a house dude, paying rent is like flushing money down the toilet __________________ On a dusty pew in a vestibule Sits the Devil playing pocket pool He's waiting for the next poor fool Who forgot that it was Sunday John Prine

06-30-2008, 07:32 AM	#9 (permalink)
Nat Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,158	I hear you Dreamer; we're in the same situation. Next time the wife & I will be sure to deal with a private landlord who we can negotiate with person-to-person, rather than person-to-company. __________________ Brush the dirt off ya shoulders... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJex9Ge2-Q

06-29-2008, 11:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
baidaho Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 253	I had one pretty bad experience myself when I was temporarily renting a place a couple of winters ago. I ended up giving up trying to get my deposit back in a case when I knew the money was owed. I even had a lawyer write a threatening letter. What I came away from it is about what Jtur just mentioned. You don't stand a chance. And something to think about, if you move out and move back in, be ready to fight for your deposit. They have plenty of ways to make sure you never see it again. The interest rates are low, the housing prices may be a their bottom.........

06-29-2008, 11:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
dlb Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,408	You could get snaky on 'em. Don't renew your lease. When it expires, start paying $14 less per month. It's hard to evict a paying tenant and the effort will take at least six months.

06-29-2008, 06:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
heyterry Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 428	I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but if you feel that things are tipped in favor of the landlord, by all means, buy some properties. I have three houses that I rent out. For the most part, I've had good tennants who fulfilled their obligations and got their deposits back. I've had two people that I had to throw out. One I had to take to court and spend $1600 to recover $1800, the other, I had to threaten to get my money. I've had two tennants who decided to break their leases by leaving before their contract was up. I told both of them that if I had someone move in, I'd prorate their deposit and return the appropriate percentage back to them. One guy received half his money back after it took a month to find a suitable renter. He *****ed like crazy that I was screwing him over. The other place took three months to lease and nothing was returned to the tennant who broke his lease (which cost me money). He said that he was going to kill me. I told him where I'd be and he never showed. I guess if you're uncomfortable with the lease, you should shop around and see if there's a better deal out there for you.

07-01-2008, 09:51 AM	#13 (permalink)
heyterry Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 428	jtur Oh yeah? Where do you get your leases? Do you write them yourself, or do you download them from the internet or purchased in a kit from an office supply house? Shopping around will only turn up a lot more landlords who have downloaded exactly the same standard lease. Use your leases as an example, and show us some language that is specifically placed there to protect the tenant against an unscrupulous landlord. What would you say if a tenent walked in with a lease that HE drew up? Shop around for a tenant who walks in with a better lease? Terry..........I had my lease drawn up by a lawyer and have made additions to it over the years. My lease was written to protect me, not the tenant. I have a substantial investment and the purpose of having the lease written was to protect my investment and myself. I'm looking for a relationship with a renter that provides them a nice place to live at a price that is set for a year. I can't throw them out because someone is willing to pay me more rent and I can't increase their rent. If someone brought their own lease, why would I sign it? My lease does what it is supposed to do..... it protects me. Again, if you see the lessor as having a huge advantage, buy some properties. I'm afraid that you might be disappointed. Many landlords only make $100 to $200 profit per month (before repairs). Grandstander: As I noted, regardless of how things happen to work out for a particular landlord or a particular tenant, things are stacked now in favor of the landlord. Terry..... Why would I not want things stacked in my favor? Grandstander: You held that tenant to the letter of the law and you were able to do so because you were holding the money. In any situation where two parties are disputing legal ownership of a thousand dollars, it will always be better to be the person who currently is holding onto the money. If the other person wants it, then they must incur the expense and inconvenience of seeking a legal remedy, while the person holding the money prevails by default if nothing is done. The person holding the money only loses if the lawsuit is successful. That is not even remotely fair. Terry..... Actually, I didn't hold them to the letter of the law. The lease says that if they decide to move out before the end of the lease, they lose their deposit. I offered to refund a pro-rated portion of their deposit if I could get a new tenant in place. I didn't have to refund them anything. Why would I not want the advantage in my favor? I have a lot of money invested. The two times that I let tenants get the advantage, it cost me 1600 to collect 1800 and I had to play serious hardball and threaten a guy's family to get my money. Lesson learned. I don't want to be in that position again. Grandstander: Please...take none of this as any sort of suggestion that you are less than honest, fair and accomodating with your tenants, but do understand that you are in a position of advantage, one that a tenant never enjoys. Terry.....I understand your point and I agree. I want to see things happen fairly. However, if things go bad, I want to be in a position of advantage. (I can't help but think of your Stratego game!) Last edited by heyterry; 07-01-2008 at 10:13 AM. Reason: .

07-01-2008, 10:28 AM	#15 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,666	""" My lease does what it is supposed to do..... it protects me. """ My fists do what they are supposed to do---they beat up littler kids who have lunch money. They protect me. __________________ ------------------ "Capitalism is morally neutral."

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