Living in an apartment sucks - Page 2

heyterry · 07-01-2008, 11:46 AM

Guys, I'm just presenting my side. I have to protect my investment and myself. If a tenant wants an advantage, he should find a lease that suits him or purchase houses and rent them out. Then (at least in his mind), he'll have the advantage.

The laws protect the tenant who doesn't pay. It can take months to get a judgement against a deadbeat and even then it's difficult to collect. I just don't want to find myself in that position. I become a person I don't like when someone owes me money and won't pay.

GS, I'm not cheating anyone. I'm giving myself an advantage because money is at stake. If I didn't, the other guy would have the advantage.

Jim, Take the lunch money you steal from the kids and buy a house or apartment building.

AlexdeLarge · 07-01-2008, 12:14 PM

Terry the slum lord, who would have thunk

jtur88 · 07-01-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heyterry

Jim, Take the lunch money you steal from the kids and buy a house or apartment building.

Of course. That's the American way. How many fortunes have been made through "giving suckers an even break"? How much of the Disney fortune came from kids' lunch money?

Grandstander · 07-01-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heyterry

GS, I'm not cheating anyone. I'm giving myself an advantage because money is at stake. If I didn't, the other guy would have the advantage.

Well, that was pretty much my point, wasn't it? These are one sided contracts designed to give the landlord the advantage. Less clear is why you feel that you are entitled to have the advantage while your tenants are not.

SugarBaby · 07-01-2008, 05:38 PM

You all leave Terry alone. I'm sure he is a fair landlord and treats his tenants well. Renters have a tendency to skip and not pay on time. If he has invested his time and money in this he should at least make a profit if he can.

baidaho · 07-01-2008, 05:40 PM

No, I say let's get Terry! It's all his fault. Ready.........DOG-PILE!!

SugarBaby · 07-01-2008, 05:55 PM

*snort*

How's Mr. Bridger there Idiho?

jtur88 · 07-01-2008, 06:16 PM

I'm also sure that Terry is a fair landlord. As fair as his lease requires him to be.

I love it when I get privacy notices from my bank. It says they have been commanded by Congress to tell me every couple of months that they will not disclose anything about me if such disclosure would be a felony. I'm so reassured. It's their way of telling me that they would sell all my account information to anybody who paid for it, except that some meddling fools have made a law against it. My landlord is similarly restrained.

When people go into business for the sole purpose of passing my money from me to themselves, I have a right to query their motives and be vigilant for dubious practices. Terry and other landlords do not rent properties because they feel sorry for the homeless---they do it because they covet the money of the homeless. Constrained only by the law,the lease terms that they dictated entirely by themselves, and a modicum of concern about their own reputation, they will take all they can get.

heyterry · 07-02-2008, 12:52 AM

Terry and other landlords do not rent properties because they feel sorry for the homeless---they do it because they covet the money of the homeless. Constrained only by the law,the lease terms that they dictated entirely by themselves, and a modicum of concern about their own reputation, they will take all they can get.

How in the hell do you know my motivations or what I covet? I got into this to make a little extra money for my family. I don't covet squat.

How in the hell do you know what constrains me? If you don't like my lease, don't sign it. I'm more constrained by morality than by law.

I just read that you returned used camping equipment to WalMart for a refund. How moral is that?

AlexdeLarge · 07-02-2008, 06:04 AM

calm down Terry, if my memory serves me well, you have heart problems. I wouldn't want this to cause a heart attack

Returns camping gear to Walmart

humm! I just bought a bunch of new stuff for my trip to Gettysburg tomorrow. So I can take it back when I return? That works for me

jtur88 · 07-02-2008, 08:43 AM

I was carefull to use the inclusive reference "Terry and other landlords", so as to not hold you up as exemplary, howevr you yourself have stated that it is your income, not the welfare of the general public, that motivated you. Each landlodr falls on an ethical continuum, but I cannot think of a single one that is motivated purely by a charitable zeal, with no self-interest sullying his noble motive to house the teeming masses.
Your own statement is "how in the hell I know", which is how in the hell you know that I returned used camping equipment.

WalMart made the rules, and they sold me the merchandise with the understanding that it was returnable under circumstances that their legal affairs department unilaterally described, which was not negotiable. As a buyer, I complied with their legally-binding agreement that prevailed on both parties. (Provided that I ever actually did what I described in a whimsical thread about hypotheticals.) I will set my own morality against that of WalMart Inc. any day on any issue.

baidaho · 07-02-2008, 09:58 AM

I think we, the moral police of Fanhome, need to put this to a vote.

Put me down for Jtur being less moral on this one. It's not about complying with any "legally-binding agreement", as you put it; it's about paying for something using it, and then returning it. Some unsuspecting person is going to repurchase the camping equipment you used. Did you have a legally-binding agreement with them too? If I pulled out a brand new tent I just bought and found sand and leaves in it, I wouldn't be pissed at Wal-Mart; I'd be pissed at the jack-ass, cheap-skate who tried to save a few bucks by returning it.

As far as Terry, all we know from him is that he is renting houses or apartments with no intention to screwing over or deceiving his tenants. There is a demand for housing and he is supplying it and making a fair earning for his risk and effort. Until we read he has some one-sided BS fine print in his lease agreement or doesn't live up to his end of the bargain, we have to assume he is being fair and moral to his tenants.

I've known Terry for years; I'd rent from him in a heartbeat. I'm also pretty sure he's not the type to return used items.

jtur88 · 07-02-2008, 10:30 AM

First of all, I am being argumentative, and this is neither a reflection on Terry nor on me. In both instances, I am creating anecdotal examples of how vendors and consumers are motivated, in the hypothetical spirit of "Let's say you and I . . ." I agree with you---I would rent from Terry in a minute. And would not expect my deposit back

Now, regarding WalMart. Returned merchandise is, in most cases, not restocked on the shelves, but is returned to the supplier for an adjustment. Those items that are returned and then resold would be conspicous in their packaging, with a purchaser of the tent perfectly aware that it had been removed from the original packaging. The purchase price of everything reflects this shrinkage, so in fact the cost my use-and-return strategy is equally borne by the public at large, the same as if I hedged on my tax return, which few people regard as immoral. Overall, even if I do return such items from time to time, I am a net loser in the mix of careless commerce. Ordinary mismanagement at retail stores costs consumers more than all the shrinkage from shoplifting, pilferage and return scams.

The fact is, only once in my life have I ever purchased something with the intent to use it and return it. Interesting story. Remember when they first came out with the amazing hex-star screw heads? Sealed-beam headlinghts are suppolsed to be user-replaceable, but GM, in their infinite genius, decided "Let's make it impossible to replace them without buying a special tool"--the famous hex-star. So I went to an auto parts store and bought a hex-star driver, replaced a sealed beam and took it back for a refund. The thing had a greasy handle when I bought it. The auto parts store had 'rented' the same tool to dozens of livid people, all swearing that they would never again buy a GM product.

I have an even better hex-star story. In Jordan, I had a Renault with hex-star adjustments on the door strike-plates. One came loose, so I took it to the Renault dealer to see if he had the mysterious tool that does only one thing per car. The dealer took his precious hex-star driver (maybe the only one in Jordan, chained to a license plate) and walked around removing all twenty of the hex-star bolts from all the doors, and threw them over a wall into a vacant lot. He then went around and replaced them all with Phillips-head bolts and said "There, that will take care of it."

One of the oft-repeated things I discovered about the third world --- tradesmen or vendors often do not charge customers to do little trivial things like that. A few minutes labor, or a piece that costs almost nothing when bought in bulk, they just do it gratis with a smile. It made me reluctant to even ask, or to force a tip on them anyway.

baidaho · 07-02-2008, 10:50 AM

Stop right there. Now, regarding WalMart. Returned merchandise is, in most cases, not restocked on the shelves, but is returned to the supplier for an adjustment. Cut the BS. I don't need to read any more of your wordy explanation on why it's okay or moral to return used camping equipment. I have bought things at Wal-Mart that were restocked after being returned. I now know to look for the box being re-taped and I've see tons of items that have been restocked.

The best thing you can do is drop this. You're busted. And I'd like to add, people like you:

Top Five Times You've Refused To Pay For Something Or Tried To Get Your Money Back.

1, Income tax.
2, Easy to get penalties waived by calling credit cards with a explantion.
3. You can get senior discounts at fast food counters if you look older than the counter-girl's mom (about 36).
4. Camping gear, used for a week, returned to WalMart with reciept. Why take it on the plane?
5. Subscribe to magaines and write 'cancel' on the bill. (They stop right now--no waiting for 6-8 weeks to take effect.)

are the reason landlords like Terry have to make strict lease agreements.

Carry on now with your wordy explanation on why you've done nothing morally wrong.............

jtur88 · 07-02-2008, 11:06 AM

Given the question as posed:

"Top Five Times You've Refused To Pay For Something Or Tried To Get Your Money Back."

What kinds of MORAL responses did you expect? Why do you take that thread so seriously?

Where was your moralizing outrage when this one went by?

"Top 5 Reasons To Tell Your Wife Why You're Late Coming Home From Work

4. Was working overtime last night, made up for it by buying this box of half-eaten candy and box with one condom missing

People are not "busted" just because some arbitrary standard that you have imposed is not met and you are bored enough to nitpick it.

07-01-2008, 12:14 PM	#17 (permalink)
AlexdeLarge Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: England Posts: 1,186	Terry the slum lord, who would have thunk __________________ I only miss you every now and then like the soft breeze blowin up from the Carribean most Novembers I break down and cry 'cause I can't remember if we said goodbye Steve Earle

07-01-2008, 06:16 PM	#23 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,846	I'm also sure that Terry is a fair landlord. As fair as his lease requires him to be. I love it when I get privacy notices from my bank. It says they have been commanded by Congress to tell me every couple of months that they will not disclose anything about me if such disclosure would be a felony. I'm so reassured. It's their way of telling me that they would sell all my account information to anybody who paid for it, except that some meddling fools have made a law against it. My landlord is similarly restrained. When people go into business for the sole purpose of passing my money from me to themselves, I have a right to query their motives and be vigilant for dubious practices. Terry and other landlords do not rent properties because they feel sorry for the homeless---they do it because they covet the money of the homeless. Constrained only by the law,the lease terms that they dictated entirely by themselves, and a modicum of concern about their own reputation, they will take all they can get. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much. Last edited by jtur88; 07-01-2008 at 06:30 PM.

07-02-2008, 06:04 AM	#25 (permalink)
AlexdeLarge Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: England Posts: 1,186	calm down Terry, if my memory serves me well, you have heart problems. I wouldn't want this to cause a heart attack Returns camping gear to Walmart humm! I just bought a bunch of new stuff for my trip to Gettysburg tomorrow. So I can take it back when I return? That works for me __________________ I only miss you every now and then like the soft breeze blowin up from the Carribean most Novembers I break down and cry 'cause I can't remember if we said goodbye Steve Earle

07-02-2008, 08:43 AM	#26 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,846	I was carefull to use the inclusive reference "Terry and other landlords", so as to not hold you up as exemplary, howevr you yourself have stated that it is your income, not the welfare of the general public, that motivated you. Each landlodr falls on an ethical continuum, but I cannot think of a single one that is motivated purely by a charitable zeal, with no self-interest sullying his noble motive to house the teeming masses. Your own statement is "how in the hell I know", which is how in the hell you know that I returned used camping equipment. WalMart made the rules, and they sold me the merchandise with the understanding that it was returnable under circumstances that their legal affairs department unilaterally described, which was not negotiable. As a buyer, I complied with their legally-binding agreement that prevailed on both parties. (Provided that I ever actually did what I described in a whimsical thread about hypotheticals.) I will set my own morality against that of WalMart Inc. any day on any issue. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much.

07-02-2008, 10:30 AM	#28 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,846	First of all, I am being argumentative, and this is neither a reflection on Terry nor on me. In both instances, I am creating anecdotal examples of how vendors and consumers are motivated, in the hypothetical spirit of "Let's say you and I . . ." I agree with you---I would rent from Terry in a minute. And would not expect my deposit back Now, regarding WalMart. Returned merchandise is, in most cases, not restocked on the shelves, but is returned to the supplier for an adjustment. Those items that are returned and then resold would be conspicous in their packaging, with a purchaser of the tent perfectly aware that it had been removed from the original packaging. The purchase price of everything reflects this shrinkage, so in fact the cost my use-and-return strategy is equally borne by the public at large, the same as if I hedged on my tax return, which few people regard as immoral. Overall, even if I do return such items from time to time, I am a net loser in the mix of careless commerce. Ordinary mismanagement at retail stores costs consumers more than all the shrinkage from shoplifting, pilferage and return scams. The fact is, only once in my life have I ever purchased something with the intent to use it and return it. Interesting story. Remember when they first came out with the amazing hex-star screw heads? Sealed-beam headlinghts are suppolsed to be user-replaceable, but GM, in their infinite genius, decided "Let's make it impossible to replace them without buying a special tool"--the famous hex-star. So I went to an auto parts store and bought a hex-star driver, replaced a sealed beam and took it back for a refund. The thing had a greasy handle when I bought it. The auto parts store had 'rented' the same tool to dozens of livid people, all swearing that they would never again buy a GM product. I have an even better hex-star story. In Jordan, I had a Renault with hex-star adjustments on the door strike-plates. One came loose, so I took it to the Renault dealer to see if he had the mysterious tool that does only one thing per car. The dealer took his precious hex-star driver (maybe the only one in Jordan, chained to a license plate) and walked around removing all twenty of the hex-star bolts from all the doors, and threw them over a wall into a vacant lot. He then went around and replaced them all with Phillips-head bolts and said "There, that will take care of it." One of the oft-repeated things I discovered about the third world --- tradesmen or vendors often do not charge customers to do little trivial things like that. A few minutes labor, or a piece that costs almost nothing when bought in bulk, they just do it gratis with a smile. It made me reluctant to even ask, or to force a tip on them anyway. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much. Last edited by jtur88; 07-02-2008 at 10:44 AM.

07-01-2008, 11:46 AM	#16 (permalink)
heyterry Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 470	Guys, I'm just presenting my side. I have to protect my investment and myself. If a tenant wants an advantage, he should find a lease that suits him or purchase houses and rent them out. Then (at least in his mind), he'll have the advantage. The laws protect the tenant who doesn't pay. It can take months to get a judgement against a deadbeat and even then it's difficult to collect. I just don't want to find myself in that position. I become a person I don't like when someone owes me money and won't pay. GS, I'm not cheating anyone. I'm giving myself an advantage because money is at stake. If I didn't, the other guy would have the advantage. Jim, Take the lunch money you steal from the kids and buy a house or apartment building.

07-01-2008, 05:38 PM	#20 (permalink)
SugarBaby Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,026	You all leave Terry alone. I'm sure he is a fair landlord and treats his tenants well. Renters have a tendency to skip and not pay on time. If he has invested his time and money in this he should at least make a profit if he can.

07-01-2008, 05:40 PM	#21 (permalink)
baidaho Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 281	No, I say let's get Terry! It's all his fault. Ready.........DOG-PILE!!

07-01-2008, 05:55 PM	#22 (permalink)
SugarBaby Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,026	snort How's Mr. Bridger there Idiho?

07-02-2008, 12:52 AM	#24 (permalink)
heyterry Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 470	Terry and other landlords do not rent properties because they feel sorry for the homeless---they do it because they covet the money of the homeless. Constrained only by the law,the lease terms that they dictated entirely by themselves, and a modicum of concern about their own reputation, they will take all they can get. How in the hell do you know my motivations or what I covet? I got into this to make a little extra money for my family. I don't covet squat. How in the hell do you know what constrains me? If you don't like my lease, don't sign it. I'm more constrained by morality than by law. I just read that you returned used camping equipment to WalMart for a refund. How moral is that?

07-02-2008, 09:58 AM	#27 (permalink)
baidaho Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 281	I think we, the moral police of Fanhome, need to put this to a vote. Put me down for Jtur being less moral on this one. It's not about complying with any "legally-binding agreement", as you put it; it's about paying for something using it, and then returning it. Some unsuspecting person is going to repurchase the camping equipment you used. Did you have a legally-binding agreement with them too? If I pulled out a brand new tent I just bought and found sand and leaves in it, I wouldn't be pissed at Wal-Mart; I'd be pissed at the jack-ass, cheap-skate who tried to save a few bucks by returning it. As far as Terry, all we know from him is that he is renting houses or apartments with no intention to screwing over or deceiving his tenants. There is a demand for housing and he is supplying it and making a fair earning for his risk and effort. Until we read he has some one-sided BS fine print in his lease agreement or doesn't live up to his end of the bargain, we have to assume he is being fair and moral to his tenants. I've known Terry for years; I'd rent from him in a heartbeat. I'm also pretty sure he's not the type to return used items.

07-02-2008, 10:50 AM	#29 (permalink)
baidaho Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 281	Stop right there. Now, regarding WalMart. Returned merchandise is, in most cases, not restocked on the shelves, but is returned to the supplier for an adjustment. Cut the BS. I don't need to read any more of your wordy explanation on why it's okay or moral to return used camping equipment. I have bought things at Wal-Mart that were restocked after being returned. I now know to look for the box being re-taped and I've see tons of items that have been restocked. The best thing you can do is drop this. You're busted. And I'd like to add, people like you: Top Five Times You've Refused To Pay For Something Or Tried To Get Your Money Back. 1, Income tax. 2, Easy to get penalties waived by calling credit cards with a explantion. 3. You can get senior discounts at fast food counters if you look older than the counter-girl's mom (about 36). 4. Camping gear, used for a week, returned to WalMart with reciept. Why take it on the plane? 5. Subscribe to magaines and write 'cancel' on the bill. (They stop right now--no waiting for 6-8 weeks to take effect.) are the reason landlords like Terry have to make strict lease agreements. Carry on now with your wordy explanation on why you've done nothing morally wrong.............

07-02-2008, 11:06 AM	#30 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 7,846	Given the question as posed: "Top Five Times You've Refused To Pay For Something Or Tried To Get Your Money Back." What kinds of MORAL responses did you expect? Why do you take that thread so seriously? Where was your moralizing outrage when this one went by? "Top 5 Reasons To Tell Your Wife Why You're Late Coming Home From Work 4. Was working overtime last night, made up for it by buying this box of half-eaten candy and box with one condom missing People are not "busted" just because some arbitrary standard that you have imposed is not met and you are bored enough to nitpick it. __________________ ------------------ When people ask what I hope to see before I die, I answer that I've already seen too much. Last edited by jtur88; 07-02-2008 at 11:14 AM.

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