The World of Coffee

[DCFan]

Originally Posted by bedir than average

That's right here

That takes too long. I was interested in picking up one of these babies first thing tomorrow morning. (I was operating under the assumption that these gizmos went for hundreds of dollars ) So just between you and me, what's the secret handshake to get that discount?

[bedir than average]

This is my content from another board, so I'll repost.

Originally Posted by dlb
You've got to tell me how you work the stovetop espresso machine, bedir. I got one for my birthday and have used it a few times, but I'm not entirely satisfied with the results. I'm still leaving water in the bottom chamber while the coffee is boiling in the top. I haven't been careful about timing the process yet, but it's in the 6 - 10 minute range for a two cup pot (from cold on the stove to afraid I'll ruin it if I leave it on any longer).

I'll work on this...I learned from my brother after he spent two years in Firenze, Italia.

Keep in mind the four fundamentals; proportion, grind, water and freshness.

In this case the proportion is just the amount of coffee that fits in the filter basket to the amount of water that would sit just under the pressure release valve. There is no need to tamp the coffee, just level it off with light pressure.

Grind for the stovetop or mokka pot should actually be fairly course. I use the same grind I use for my metal filter. Which is what Starbucks and other coffee houses should be recommending, they don't because they hear "espresso machine" but it isn't really. The metal filters used for these machines are generally more open than all but percolators and french presses. So stick to the metal filter grind.

Water - should be fresh, cold and pure; but you know that.

Freshness - your coffee should be used within 7 days of opening a Flavorlock or Freshness sealed bag.

Now the tricky part with the mokka pot is that you don't want the heat on your stove as high as you think. I use about a 4.7 or so on my electric range. Gas stove users might go even lower, but I have never used gas for this, so I'm not certain.

Give it time. A few minutes before you even try to look at the action. I'm hoping you have one where you can visually access the top chamber while it brews. What I have noticed is that there is a near even time between when you place the unit on the stove to when the first nectar comes out compared to when the first nectar comes out and when the last does. There will always be a tiny amount of water remaining in the bottom chamber at the end.

My brother preaches patience on these. I probably spent 15-20 minutes from grinding until I served, but when done right you get a deep rich flavor that highlights the coffee in ways that only a press or gravity steeping do.

[DCFan]

Bedir, what's your opinion of this model compared to the one you just bought? The Krups seems to be a little more foolproof, no?

[bedir than average]

Well, that is a different style of machine all-together. It is an entry level counter-top espresso maker with attached coffee brewer. Like many things that are multi-purpose for luxury goods, it sacrifices quality for utility.

I had a MrCoffee as my only countertop. The steam wand was weak. The latte art that TopCat linked earlier in this thread would only be a dream for someone with a multipurpose machine. Also the coffee side of things is likely to be a bit finnicky.

IMO, if you want an occaissional espresso but are primarily a coffee drinker get a stovetop and a foaming pitcher while continuing to use your current home brewer. The quality won't suffer.

[RotatorCuff]

I agree with you about the Starbucks latte.

I think they clearly make the best latte but they don't have a clue as to what to do with the foam.

It's gotten to the point where I always ask for a no foam latte as to avoid getting a cup of air foam.

When you have one made properly you sure can tell the difference and I can honestly say I've never had one at Starbucks which has been prepared properly.

I find that sad because as far as taste goes there is no better.

[DCFan]

Originally Posted by bedir than average

IMO, if you want an occaissional espresso but are primarily a coffee drinker get a stovetop and a foaming pitcher while continuing to use your current home brewer. The quality won't suffer.

Very well. Thanks for the advice!

[Top Cat]

Originally Posted by RotatorCuff

I agree with you about the Starbucks latte.

I think they clearly make the best latte but they don't have a clue as to what to do with the foam.

Roto,...have you ever been to Vivace? What you're looking for is there...
http://www.espressovivace.com/

Or try Cafe Vita
http://www.caffevita.com/

Or
Caffe Ladro
http://www.caffeladro.com/

or
Diva Espresso
http://www.divaespresso.com/

These are only but a few of the true artisans available in Seattle area where you can get a latte done right. Starbucks isn't even in the same league. And it's not even close. Even Bedir knows this. Not that they couldn't be, but they simply are not. Try one or better yet all of these...the proof is in the cup. Ask for it in porcelain...take your time and enjoy.

[645]

I happen to not drink Coffee at all.

Any Caffine at all makes me very dizzy and even decaff doen't take all of it out.

So I don't drink it or Soda for that mather.

[bedir than average]

TopCat, you keep focusing on how coffee looks, shouldn't the emphasis be on how it tastes? Also considering that 95% of all latte drinkers want their beverage to go and the only thing you can mention that they are superior in is appearance, is that a good thing?

You left off Cafe D'Arte. Probably the best espresso I've ever had, better than Bracciano, Rome, Scicily or anywhere I've been in the USA.

[RotatorCuff]

Thanks Top Cat for the info.

I think the foam in a latte is as important as the coffee and Starbucks suffers greatly in that dept.

There is certainly no care taken when making a beverage.

As I mentioned I do love the taste of a Starbucks latte but why should I be forced to order one with no foam because it is NEVER made properly?

[bedir than average]

never is a strong word when talking about a company with 12000 stores. Have you been to mine?

I have yet to see latte art done on to-go oders when over 150 beverages are being made in an hour.

As for foam, yes properly aerated milk is a necessity. From this a thick velvet foam is made, but more important than its look or even its feel is that kind of foam guarantees that the milk has picked up a little sweetness from a chemical change.

[RotatorCuff]

Actually I did have one Starbuck's employee ask me why I wanted no foam and I told her why.

She then proceeded to make me a delicious latte with perfect foam.

I was impressed.

Like I said bedir, I love the taste of a Stabuck's latte but I just wish that the baristas took the time to make them properly.

What you are almost admitting to is that Starbuck's is a "fast food" joint. ( by that I mean pumping out coffees at an alarming rate)

If that's the case then I shouldn't be paying $4 CDN for a Grande latte if it isn't made properly.

[Top Cat]

the only thing you can mention that they are superior in is appearance, is that a good thing?

Surely you aren't suggesting that Starbucks tastes better than any of those listed? You're deluding yourself if that's the case. Because of Starbuck's own practices, that's nearly impossible.

The problem is, that because Starbuck's won't take the time to make a latte correctly, there is no comparison. What Starbucks is "capable" of doing and what they deliver are two different things I'm quite sure of that. I go to those other places because they do deliver. and they typically don't cost a cent more. (And yes D'Arte is also an artisan..as are the original torrefazzione stores and many others shops in the Seattle area. Too numerous to name, but the fun is in the hunt)

Bedir, appearance is a symptom of care and pride. The very same pride these vendors demonstrate day in and day out. Yes appearance under a to-go lid isn't significant and appearance can also mask inferior coffee. However, even then these vendors manage to get that right. OTOH, properly steamed milk enhances the flavor of any coffee. No doubt Starbucks has many terrific coffees. Too bad they cater primarily to the "gotta have it in a hurry crowd" As a consumer, I shouldn't have to "ask" professionals for a latte done right. At least not when i'm writin the check.

[RotatorCuff]

Excellent post Top Cat and right on the money on all your points.

Sure I want to be in and out of Starbucks in as little time as possible but I would like my drink prepared properly.

Like I said, they are like the fast food of coffee joints but the prices don't reflect that.

Speaking of coffee in general, up here in Canada we have a phenomena called Tim Horton's.

As far as just a regular cup of coffee goes there is no better.

It has a very distinct taste and it is wonderful.

If you are ever up in Canada have a cup.

[Top Cat]

Where in Canada are you?