Italy's latest mess - the death of a policeman

bedir than average · February 6th, 2007, 08:05 AM

The World from Berlin: The Ugly Face of Italian Football - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

Quote:

The Ugly Face of Italian Football
Crumbling stadiums, violent fans, racism, corruption. Italian football, shaken by the death of a policeman in last Friday's riot in Sicily, is in big trouble, say German media commentators.
Italian fans let off a flare during last Friday's match between Catania and Palermo which preceded the rioting.
Italian authorities have responded to the death of a police officer in a football riot on Friday by barring fans from stadiums where security requirements are not met and ordering clubs to take a number of security measures.

Friday's riot in the Sicilian city of Catania, which led to the cancellation of all professional matches scheduled for last weekend, has highlighted a crisis in football in the country that won the World Cup last year.

Italy had their matchfixing scandal, is reputed to have the most racist fans in Europe and now a soccer riot has killed a cop. The league is about to face some harsh realities. Five clubs at this time aren't allowed fans in stands. Last weekends matches were all canceled.

Though one of the big three national leagues, Italian soccer is about to fall apart.

Wiggen · February 6th, 2007, 09:14 AM

The authorities in Italy have been far too lenient with things like racism and rioting, and this has gone on for years. The Match-fixing is in another category all together, of course. FIFA, as usual, has done absolutely nothing to correct what was obviously a corrupt and violent situation for years.

I'd like to see the Italians suspended for a year or two from any international competitions and I'd like to see FIFA replaced by some effective governing body. Neither will happen, of course.

bedir than average · February 6th, 2007, 09:15 AM

I don't know if suspending the National team is the right idea. Banning any Italian Serie A teams from Champions League, Cup Winners Cup and the like would be a reasonable penalty.

Wiggen · February 6th, 2007, 09:39 AM

Yeah, I'm somewhat ambivalent about the national team, but clearly something drastic needs to be done to get the attention of the Italian authorities, and the authorities in other countries where this type of violence is tolerated.

The English leagues have done it with their domestic game - that type of violence has been virtually eliminated within England itself, although matches involving English teams outside of England get the occasional violence. They've done it with state of the art police tactics, including identifying and banning for life known troublemakers.

bedir than average · February 9th, 2007, 10:26 AM

Currently only six stadia are allowed to host games with fans.

Workers are scrambling to upgrade the others. AC Milan may have to play a Champions League match they are "hosting" in one of those six, as their home stadium does not meet standards.

This punishments seem to be a start, but only a start.

ESPNsoccernet - Europe - Workers scramble to ready Italy's stadiums

steeplechase3k · February 9th, 2007, 08:11 PM

The security in England is off the charts crazy. At ManU there were about 40-60 cops surrounding the visitors entrance. One line of cops stopped people to give the ones patting everyone down space. After getting patted down you walk through an opening that is no more than 16 inches wide, this lead into a tunnel about 5 feet long. Then there was a waist high turnstyle and the ticket person was behind a heavy metal grate.

Here are the cops at Old Tratford:

Inside the stadium the visitors are completely cut off from the rest of the stadium. At one end there were locked doors with about 5 cops standing in front of them. The other ends was a solid concreete wall. In the seating bowl there were railing surronding the visitors.

Here are some cops at the Sunderland - Newcastle match:

There are laws that prevent visting supporters for getting too close to the stadium until just before the match. Infact the bus must register their trip, on our way to Manchester we were followed the entire way through one county by 2 police cars.

bedir than average · February 10th, 2007, 11:58 AM

Normally I would frown on such a high police presence, but if people are dying that behavior seems correct.

How many metal detectors and CCTV did you notice?

Wiggen · February 11th, 2007, 12:07 PM

I would frown on it to except for the fact that it works and you can now attend matches in England with your family, pretty confident that your safety is assured.

TST · February 12th, 2007, 06:46 AM

i think the reason why England has solved its hooliganism problems has not so much to do with the police presence at the stadiums, as it has with a change in legislation. England passed a law designed only for football related violence, whereas many european countries (at least Holland) will treat hooliganism as any act of violence. Anyone who is convicted is forced to report at the police station at the time of the games.

Cali Ed · February 13th, 2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedir than average

... are scrambling to upgrade the others. AC Milan may have to play a Champions League match they are "hosting" in one of those six, as their home stadium does not meet standards.

This punishments seem to be a start, but only a start.

As you undoubtedly know by now, the San Siro "passed" inspection literally last minute, and was opened to season ticket holders on Sunday. However, watching the Sky Sports rebroadcast here on Fox Soccer Channel, it seems that the Italian Football Federation violated its own terms and conditions by allowing it to open. Not only were several of the electronic turnstiles not operable, many fans were allowed entry via the old gates, rather than the mandated new "secured" entrances.

Seems like Italian football has "dropped the ball" on this one, if the allegations in the report are true. Think they should've "closed up shop" for at least 1, if not 2 more weeks, to more seriously investigate the facilities and get them upgraded in time. Watching the Inter match in an empty stadium was a disgrace.

But that's just me...

bedir than average · February 15th, 2007, 10:25 AM

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_yl...ters&type=lgns

Though they passed SanSiro for the matches, they will be less than full. Only 36,000 for Inter v Valencia and about 40,000 of the AC match v Celtic.

85,000 is the stadium's normal capacity

Quote:

UEFA's decision to allow in Valencia and Celtic fans contrasts with the ban on visiting fans laid down by the Italian Football Federation for domestic games at the stadium.

In Serie A the San Siro is only open to Milan and Inter's season-ticket holders after emergency works last week to install electronic turnstiles brought it closer to complying with

The financial penalty of MLS type attendance might be enough to spur action.

Cali Ed · February 15th, 2007, 11:43 AM

This is still a mess, and I can't believe UEFA is allowing this to go forward in this fashion. Perhaps if they limited the Italian fans' seating to the season-ticket holders (like they did for Milan last week-end), it would work better.

But that's just me...

steeplechase3k · February 15th, 2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedir than average

How many metal detectors and CCTV did you notice?

No metal detectors, but everyone was patted down (however there were several areas that they didn't touch, like the small of my back).

There was CCTV everywere. When I was at Hartlepool I (along with some frineds) were given a tour of the security booth. It had about 5-8 people working in it, they had about two dozen cameras with very high zoom (I'd guess atleast 10X). They coverend almost all of the stadium, and even the parking lot across the street where fans used to "meet" to fight. They showed how they can use the cameras to get a look at the face of anyone in the stands so they can find people that have been banned.

When I was at Old Tratford, the cops came in and took out a Sunderland fan (I don't know if he had been banner previously or what). It was a swarm of about 10 cops that came right in and grabbed the guy.

Two things to keep in mind in these pictures:
1: this is the visitors entrance, home entrances are more open and they don't pat everyone down, (but most of the entrances are like I described above to prevernt fans from rushing the stadium)
2: On the left are Newcastle fans. On the right are Sunderland fans. They HATE each other.

February 6th, 2007, 09:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	I don't know if suspending the National team is the right idea. Banning any Italian Serie A teams from Champions League, Cup Winners Cup and the like would be a reasonable penalty. __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

February 9th, 2007, 10:26 AM	#5 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	Currently only six stadia are allowed to host games with fans. Workers are scrambling to upgrade the others. AC Milan may have to play a Champions League match they are "hosting" in one of those six, as their home stadium does not meet standards. This punishments seem to be a start, but only a start. ESPNsoccernet - Europe - Workers scramble to ready Italy's stadiums __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

February 9th, 2007, 08:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
steeplechase3k Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 125	The security in England is off the charts crazy. At ManU there were about 40-60 cops surrounding the visitors entrance. One line of cops stopped people to give the ones patting everyone down space. After getting patted down you walk through an opening that is no more than 16 inches wide, this lead into a tunnel about 5 feet long. Then there was a waist high turnstyle and the ticket person was behind a heavy metal grate. Here are the cops at Old Tratford: Inside the stadium the visitors are completely cut off from the rest of the stadium. At one end there were locked doors with about 5 cops standing in front of them. The other ends was a solid concreete wall. In the seating bowl there were railing surronding the visitors. Here are some cops at the Sunderland - Newcastle match: There are laws that prevent visting supporters for getting too close to the stadium until just before the match. Infact the bus must register their trip, on our way to Manchester we were followed the entire way through one county by 2 police cars. __________________ --There are some who call me... Tim.-- Last edited by steeplechase3k; February 9th, 2007 at 08:13 PM. Reason: typo

February 10th, 2007, 11:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	Normally I would frown on such a high police presence, but if people are dying that behavior seems correct. How many metal detectors and CCTV did you notice? __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

February 15th, 2007, 11:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
Cali Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 102	This is still a mess, and I can't believe UEFA is allowing this to go forward in this fashion. Perhaps if they limited the Italian fans' seating to the season-ticket holders (like they did for Milan last week-end), it would work better. But that's just me... __________________ 96-66, best record in the majors! GO TRIBE!

February 6th, 2007, 09:14 AM	#2 (permalink)
Wiggen Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,287	The authorities in Italy have been far too lenient with things like racism and rioting, and this has gone on for years. The Match-fixing is in another category all together, of course. FIFA, as usual, has done absolutely nothing to correct what was obviously a corrupt and violent situation for years. I'd like to see the Italians suspended for a year or two from any international competitions and I'd like to see FIFA replaced by some effective governing body. Neither will happen, of course.

February 6th, 2007, 09:39 AM	#4 (permalink)
Wiggen Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,287	Yeah, I'm somewhat ambivalent about the national team, but clearly something drastic needs to be done to get the attention of the Italian authorities, and the authorities in other countries where this type of violence is tolerated. The English leagues have done it with their domestic game - that type of violence has been virtually eliminated within England itself, although matches involving English teams outside of England get the occasional violence. They've done it with state of the art police tactics, including identifying and banning for life known troublemakers.

February 11th, 2007, 12:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
Wiggen Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,287	I would frown on it to except for the fact that it works and you can now attend matches in England with your family, pretty confident that your safety is assured.

February 12th, 2007, 06:46 AM	#9 (permalink)
TST Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 22	i think the reason why England has solved its hooliganism problems has not so much to do with the police presence at the stadiums, as it has with a change in legislation. England passed a law designed only for football related violence, whereas many european countries (at least Holland) will treat hooliganism as any act of violence. Anyone who is convicted is forced to report at the police station at the time of the games.