What to do with the rotation? - Page 2

bedir than average · 08-14-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxpert

Maybe the most brilliant post I've read all day.

I thought so too

http://www.fanhome.com/?p=42

Dante Bichette · 08-14-2007, 11:36 PM

With Francis not making it out of the 4th tonight, he could easily come back a day early and pitch on Saturday.

Dante Bichette · 08-14-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cocktoston

Going to a 4 man rotation in Spring Training to begin a season may be "forward thinking".

Going to a 4 man rotation in mid-August as you begin a stretch run is a little reckless, IMO.

How so? To me, the opposite would be true. At the beginning of a season pitchers arms aren't fully conditioned yet, so they would need extra rest. Also, why run the risk of overusing one of your pitchers in April or May? But now, in mid August, all starters are well conditioned and we have little to save them for. If we don't stay in the West and Wildcard chases we could be playing meaningless games in a month or less. Than we can go back to a 5 man rotation, hell even a 6 if we want to see some of the younger arms.

BigRapidsJackass · 08-15-2007, 11:00 PM

This whole starting pitching thing is just frickin' retarded. OK, Buchholz is "better as a reliever." Yeah, and so far he has been, but only in the way that the ordinary reliever posts better numbers than the ordinary starter. Hey, the data show that relieving is just plain "easier" to the tune of about .80 runs per game, and guess what? That's about how much better Buchholz has been as a reliever so far in his career.

So instead of simply slipping Buchholz into the rotation, you pick up Ramon Ortiz -- a reliever this year, almost exclusively -- and plan on having him start.

Ortiz 2007 DERA: 5.10
Buchholz: 4.78

I guess I fail to see why the obvious move -- take the guy who's being used as th 12th man on the staff, who has experience starting, who's performed better than Ortiz -- and make him the 5th starter, then acquire a run of the mill reliever to fill Buchholz's role.

What's with all this overthinking of the situation? I like the Dessens acquisition, and wouldn't he be able to slide into the Buchholz role like right away, with Buchholz probably ready to give the Rox at least 80 pitches as a starter? Instead, you've got Dessens (who may last 4-5 innings if he manages to keep his pitch count down) starting tomorrow. And then Ortiz probably starting next week.

Meanwhile, O'Dowd has been able to satisfy all his inexplicable mancrushes in one week. Elmer Dessens: lusted after him the last 2 offseasons. Ramon Ortiz: object of Danno's desire last winter.

Dante Bichette · 08-16-2007, 01:11 AM

I can't believe Cook is down now too. What is going on?

At least Hurdle is as cocky as ever, I saw a clip of him smacking his gum and smirking and talking about how the Rocks are going to play through this and deal with the adversity, like they have all year. Really? I feel so assured.

He is right about one thing, though, the Rocks have had to play through a lot of adversity, especially having to play multiple seasons with an inferior and condescending manager.

Newman · 08-16-2007, 08:50 AM

And a manager who has job security, as does the GM.

How is it that we are NOT going to lose 5 in a row now, what with this patchwork pitching staff? Great job by Ubaldo last night. I'd still rather see Morales than Ramon Ortiz.

Did Casey Fossum land anywhere?

HoyaRoxFan · 08-16-2007, 02:36 PM

Well that was fun:

Kim and Kennedy DFA'd by Diamondbacks
The Official Site of The Arizona Diamondbacks: News: Arizona Diamondbacks News

Let's hope our grasping at straws works a little better...

bedir than average · 08-16-2007, 06:26 PM

Looks like Ramon Ortiz might be the answer

The Official Site of Major League Baseball: News: Major League Baseball News

Though the article says Elmer Dessens will start Saturday. Dessens hasn't started in the majors since 2 Oct 2005.

BigRapidsJackass · 08-16-2007, 06:33 PM

Get Joe Kennedy now! One terrible appearance does not necessarily mean he's useless. This club needs arms and needs them bad.

Casey Fossum? It would be hard to have a worse year. I'd pass. He has talent, but right now he'd be worse than throwing Morales out there.

BigRapidsJackass · 08-21-2007, 12:09 AM

Help is on its way: Mark Redman signed to a minor league deal, and almost immediately looked like crap playing for Tulsa!

Really, what would be so bad about Jamey Wright, Part III? Or even Shawn Chacon II?

Oops, I forgot. Chacon left "on bad terms" with Hurdle. I never heard anything about it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Jamey also left "on bad terms." Clint is the the grudge-holding psycho girlfriend you wish you never dated ...

Rankal · 08-21-2007, 12:24 AM

There may come a point when we go for David Wells. I mean, by the time it happens, there's a good chance we will have given EVERY PITCHER IMAGINABLE a shot at our rotation.

BigRapidsJackass · 08-21-2007, 12:41 AM

I find it hilarious that Hurdle told reporters that we have no interest in David Wells because, after all, if he couldn't succeed at Petco, how would he do at Coors?

And then we go out and sign Ramon Ortiz and Mark Redman. I'm sure Clint's advanced statistical analysis gives him good reason to believe that Redman and Ortiz would clearly outperform Wells.

What we did see tonight was a couple relievers had who just might have helped a bit ... but those guys were pitching for the Pirates. They were available, but we passed.

Roxpert · 08-21-2007, 12:44 AM

I'm not so worried about the rotation right now as I am about the bullpen and our imbalanced roster. 8 relievers is not necessary, and only 4 bench guys really constrains our options. I wouldn't have hit Carroll for Hawpe, for example, tonight since Brad can at least draw walks against lefties, and Gil making the last out as a pinch hitter was painful to watch.

We need to go back to 7 relievers and add a bat to the bench ASAP.

DieHardRoxFan · 08-21-2007, 01:26 AM

Torrealba is having an awful August. Ianetta should be up in September and do most of the catching IMO but that probably won't happen. Also bring up Morrilo now, he couldn't do any worse than some of these retreads.

BigRapidsJackass · 08-21-2007, 01:32 AM

Iannetta has picked right up where he left off in AAA. He has about a .900 OPS so far since his demotion. So no harm done by keeping him on the roster for 4 months. And yes, Hurdle was overcome by emotion at Yorvit's "breakout" year, which is looking more and more like a typically solid, just below average-ish year for an NL backstop.

08-16-2007, 06:26 PM	#23 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	Looks like Ramon Ortiz might be the answer The Official Site of Major League Baseball: News: Major League Baseball News Though the article says Elmer Dessens will start Saturday. Dessens hasn't started in the majors since 2 Oct 2005. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

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08-14-2007, 11:36 PM	#17 (permalink)
Dante Bichette Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 265	With Francis not making it out of the 4th tonight, he could easily come back a day early and pitch on Saturday.

08-15-2007, 11:00 PM	#19 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,087	This whole starting pitching thing is just frickin' retarded. OK, Buchholz is "better as a reliever." Yeah, and so far he has been, but only in the way that the ordinary reliever posts better numbers than the ordinary starter. Hey, the data show that relieving is just plain "easier" to the tune of about .80 runs per game, and guess what? That's about how much better Buchholz has been as a reliever so far in his career. So instead of simply slipping Buchholz into the rotation, you pick up Ramon Ortiz -- a reliever this year, almost exclusively -- and plan on having him start. Ortiz 2007 DERA: 5.10 Buchholz: 4.78 I guess I fail to see why the obvious move -- take the guy who's being used as th 12th man on the staff, who has experience starting, who's performed better than Ortiz -- and make him the 5th starter, then acquire a run of the mill reliever to fill Buchholz's role. What's with all this overthinking of the situation? I like the Dessens acquisition, and wouldn't he be able to slide into the Buchholz role like right away, with Buchholz probably ready to give the Rox at least 80 pitches as a starter? Instead, you've got Dessens (who may last 4-5 innings if he manages to keep his pitch count down) starting tomorrow. And then Ortiz probably starting next week. Meanwhile, O'Dowd has been able to satisfy all his inexplicable mancrushes in one week. Elmer Dessens: lusted after him the last 2 offseasons. Ramon Ortiz: object of Danno's desire last winter.

08-16-2007, 01:11 AM	#20 (permalink)
Dante Bichette Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 265	I can't believe Cook is down now too. What is going on? At least Hurdle is as cocky as ever, I saw a clip of him smacking his gum and smirking and talking about how the Rocks are going to play through this and deal with the adversity, like they have all year. Really? I feel so assured. He is right about one thing, though, the Rocks have had to play through a lot of adversity, especially having to play multiple seasons with an inferior and condescending manager.

08-16-2007, 08:50 AM	#21 (permalink)
Newman Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Aurora Posts: 516	And a manager who has job security, as does the GM. How is it that we are NOT going to lose 5 in a row now, what with this patchwork pitching staff? Great job by Ubaldo last night. I'd still rather see Morales than Ramon Ortiz. Did Casey Fossum land anywhere?

08-16-2007, 02:36 PM	#22 (permalink)
HoyaRoxFan Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 276	Well that was fun: Kim and Kennedy DFA'd by Diamondbacks The Official Site of The Arizona Diamondbacks: News: Arizona Diamondbacks News Let's hope our grasping at straws works a little better...

08-16-2007, 06:33 PM	#24 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,087	Get Joe Kennedy now! One terrible appearance does not necessarily mean he's useless. This club needs arms and needs them bad. Casey Fossum? It would be hard to have a worse year. I'd pass. He has talent, but right now he'd be worse than throwing Morales out there.

08-21-2007, 12:09 AM	#25 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,087	Help is on its way: Mark Redman signed to a minor league deal, and almost immediately looked like crap playing for Tulsa! Really, what would be so bad about Jamey Wright, Part III? Or even Shawn Chacon II? Oops, I forgot. Chacon left "on bad terms" with Hurdle. I never heard anything about it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Jamey also left "on bad terms." Clint is the the grudge-holding psycho girlfriend you wish you never dated ...

08-21-2007, 12:24 AM	#26 (permalink)
Rankal Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 84	There may come a point when we go for David Wells. I mean, by the time it happens, there's a good chance we will have given EVERY PITCHER IMAGINABLE a shot at our rotation.

08-21-2007, 12:41 AM	#27 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,087	I find it hilarious that Hurdle told reporters that we have no interest in David Wells because, after all, if he couldn't succeed at Petco, how would he do at Coors? And then we go out and sign Ramon Ortiz and Mark Redman. I'm sure Clint's advanced statistical analysis gives him good reason to believe that Redman and Ortiz would clearly outperform Wells. What we did see tonight was a couple relievers had who just might have helped a bit ... but those guys were pitching for the Pirates. They were available, but we passed.

08-21-2007, 12:44 AM	#28 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,008	I'm not so worried about the rotation right now as I am about the bullpen and our imbalanced roster. 8 relievers is not necessary, and only 4 bench guys really constrains our options. I wouldn't have hit Carroll for Hawpe, for example, tonight since Brad can at least draw walks against lefties, and Gil making the last out as a pinch hitter was painful to watch. We need to go back to 7 relievers and add a bat to the bench ASAP.

08-21-2007, 01:26 AM	#29 (permalink)
DieHardRoxFan Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 153	Torrealba is having an awful August. Ianetta should be up in September and do most of the catching IMO but that probably won't happen. Also bring up Morrilo now, he couldn't do any worse than some of these retreads.

08-21-2007, 01:32 AM	#30 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,087	Iannetta has picked right up where he left off in AAA. He has about a .900 OPS so far since his demotion. So no harm done by keeping him on the roster for 4 months. And yes, Hurdle was overcome by emotion at Yorvit's "breakout" year, which is looking more and more like a typically solid, just below average-ish year for an NL backstop.