The Decline and Fall of Todd Helton.....

[hiaspire]

Umm, earth to stat guys. Most managers in the game do make decisions based upon a players ability and experience as is only human. I've been saying that Helton is respected by other managers and benefits the lineup as such, just as reality illustrates. If anybody thinks Cox is the only manager in baseball who has that kind of respect for Helton (that we need more of here), then their vision has been clouded up looking at too many numbers for too long. That's an obvious reality that we see play out on the field.

[hotshotTheGreat]

Thread I have ever read.

Only one guy in baseball right now that has a better RISP avg than Helton, and thats Ichiro.

What is his OBP again? On the road? 4th in the NL and 2nd in the NL in walks. You cant teach having the best eye-hand cordination in the game.

We are overpaying other people like LaTroy Hawkins, not Helton.

[indianadrew]

heltonfan is that you?

[Newman]

Helton belts two home runs in one game. Now he has a whopping total of 11 for the year. WoooooooHoooooooooo.

And what is the result? He misses the next two games with back spasms.

If he swings hard anymore he hurts himself.

This thread basically expresses fan frustration with Helton. It's understandable. One year he hits 49 homers. Now he has 11. Who wouldn't be disappointed? And he's only 33. He shouldn't be done.

What we have now is an overpriced superstar who is suddenly simply a slow white singles hitter. Cox walked him out of habit I'm thinking moreso than anything else.

[Roxpert]

Now we know what happens to Helton if he swings for the fences. I noticed a certain anger from Todd the night he hit his two dingers. Me thinks he tried to show doubters that they are wrong, and that he still can jack it out of the park. Only problem was that he swung hard enough to throw his old back out.

And so that probably is the problem. Helton probably knows that his back is chronically tender, and he has been babying it all season by swinging under control and without power. That is, until he got pissed off enough with his meager 9 homers that he wanted to muscle up on a couple pitches.

That'll teach him. Todd won't dare try to hit one dinger, let alone two, in a game from here on out. Any homeruns hit by Helton henceforth will purely be by accident.

[John Cocktoston]

Not to throw a wet blanket on the festivities, but he hurt his back sliding into home. The swings he put on the 2 HR's had nothing to do with his back spasms. You could literally see him getting up after the slide at home, clutching his lower back as he gingerly made his way back to the dugout.

[Roxpert]

Ok, I never saw that. Still, perhaps he weakened his back from those swings such that it was vulnerable to being hurt from that slide? I know, I'm reaching here.

[Newman]

I don't think that's a reach at all, Roxpert.

Before he hit those two homers he had a grand total of 9 for the year. He doesn't swing hard to protect his back, to baby his back. He may have gotten hurt sliding into home OR he may have gotten hurt swinging the bat OR a combination of the two.

JC certainly doesn't know when and where TH got hurt, unless he is Helton himself or the trainer or someone on the inside like Clint Hurdle. It's all just speculation and our conjecturing that he hurt himself swinging for the fences is just as valid as anything else.

[Roxpert]

You're right, Helton's back may have ALREADY been hurt when he made that slide, but he was able to disguise it up until that point. We don't know. All we do know is that Helton hadn't muscled up and hit two jacks all year, and then he COINCIDENTALLY has back spasms and is out for several games. Or maybe it wasn't such a coincidence.

[John Cocktoston]

If this is going to turn into a meeting of the "Conspiracy Theorists' Mutual Masturbation Society" please have the decency to take it behind closed doors, guys.

The guy slid awkwardly into home plate and got up clutching his back. Newman, you would have us believe that this was orchestrated to conceal a pre-existing injury that resulted from an earlier home run? He basically threw his back out on the second home run, but wanted to wait to reveal the fact? Or maybe, better yet, he hurt himself on the first one and hit another one just to throw Sherlock Mailman off the scent before revealing his clever ruse after sliding into home?

Were you even watching the game? Let me guess, we didn't land on the moon either?

[Roxpert]

Originally Posted by John Cocktoston

If this is going to turn into a meeting of the "Conspiracy Theorists' Mutual Masturbation Society" please have the decency to take it behind closed doors, guys.

#1 - I find this to be highly offensive language and rhetoric,and you are close to getting an official complaint from me in your "troll-type" behavior.

#2 - We have the perfect right to talk about this in public, i.e. this is what public baseball message boards are for.

#3 - This isn't some "wacky conspiracy theory" as you've mischaracterized it. No "moon landing in a studio" here. Nope, it's simply speculation by a couple fans that MAYBE, just maybe, Todd Helton tweaked his back on one of his homerun swings and then aggravated it on the slide.

You don't have to agree with that speculation, but to belittle other posters is getting to be a nasty habit of yours, and you need to cut it out ASAP.

[rockieprogress]

I thought that was funny...

You two are reaching on your "he hurt himself hitting HR's" comment, and your comment of "He'll only hit them now by accident" was nothing more than a negative post.

To say that any poster's opinion is valid or not is what drives people away from this board. All opinions are valid. Even the inane.
That includes what you've posted (not the inane part).

Is that what you really want?
A board where a fan of the team gets devalued because they don't feel negatively about a team that just went 5-2 on the homestand?

Go ahead and ban me.

But if you are unsuccessful, I will continue to state my opinion.

Which BTW, is just as valid as yours.

[John Cocktoston]

Roxpert, you don't have a leg to stand on re: not respecting the opinions of other posters. You are consistently the most arrogant, condescending, dismissive, intolerant and self-possessed poster on this board. And no, I don't respect your opinion on this issue. I think it's contrived and agenda-driven. But you know what? THAT'S MY OPINION!!!!

[Newman]

JC, don't try to devalue me, to diminish me. I have a right to MY opinion, just like you do with yours.

To say that I think the whole thing was orchestrated or part of a conspiracy is laughable. What's the scenario? Helton hurts his back on the second homer. He walks over to Clint and tells him. Hurdle, in an amazing flash of brilliance tells Todd to slide home awkwardly next time, and then grab his back as he gets up safely from home plate?

Give me a break.

Helton has had issues with his back for a long time now. That's not conspiracy theory. That is a fact, Jack.

These are the kinds of issues astute fans talk about. Helton has lost his home run power. That's a fact. Why? The back? Why doesn't he swing for the fences anymore? Because it hurts to do so? What is so off the wall with that line of thinking? Wouldn't Pythagarus agree with that logic?

How do YOU explain going from 49 HRs one year to 11 the next when you are only 33 years old? No longer on steroids? No longer swinging hard? Got traded to the Astrodome? Things do happen for a reason in sports. Is it his eyesight? The ileitis has returned? He has no protection in the lineup (Holliday, Hawpe, Atkins)???

[Roxpert]

Originally Posted by John Cocktoston

Roxpert, you don't have a leg to stand on re: not respecting the opinions of other posters. You are consistently the most arrogant, condescending, dismissive, intolerant and self-possessed poster on this board. And no, I don't respect your opinion on this issue. I think it's contrived and agenda-driven. But you know what? THAT'S MY OPINION!!!!

Ad-hominem personal attacks do not meet community standards.