Rox at Cards, 5/7 - 5/9 thread

BigRapidsJackass · May 7th, 2007, 09:29 PM

Late starting this one.

Let me just say this: a fantastic ballgame tonight. Well-pitched, well-played, with more than a little controversy.

And let me say this, too: Tulo has been tremendous the last couple weeks. He got credited with 2 doubles tonight, but we all saw it was a double and a HR. We've seen him look good in the field, and the stats back it up: his Zone Rating so far is a very, very nice .860. For comparison: Barmes was at .845, and pretty much all the respectable metrics had him in the top 4 defensive shortstops in the NL.

McClellan might just make it as a reliever. I remember watching one of those televised spring training games and thinking he looked pretty polished (certainly compared to Keppel and the like), and he's done nothing to change my mind since his call-up. He'll never dominate, but throwing strikes and missing more than a few bats is good enough for middle relief.

And he didn't play tonight, but I'll add this as well: there's a perception that Iannetta has really been struggling. It's not true. He has a .707 OPS, which would be the best we've seen out of a Rockies catcher in quite some time. Torrealba's been excellent defensively, but his OPS? .534

TheIncredibleRox · May 7th, 2007, 09:43 PM

I was going to make a similar post about Tulo's D.... night after night, I'm amazed. He's got an absolute cannon for an arm... I'd bet he could hit mid-90's off a mound. He gets to far more balls than any Rockies SS I've seen, and he's got real quickness and athleticism about him... case in point, that egregiously-awful takeout slide by Molina today.

He doesn't--and never will--have the insanely smooth/soft hands of a Vizquel or Everett. But they're still pretty good, he's got an edge on both those guys in arm strength, and I'd be suprised if they get to a meaningfully higher # of balls than he does (he's not quite the acrobatic that Vizquel is, though).

Best of all-- there's some decent evidence that he's on his way to being a significant force offensively.

RMF · May 8th, 2007, 06:54 PM

I wonder where Matt Holliday will sign as a FA? St Louis possibly. He destroys these guys.

wolf213 · May 8th, 2007, 08:06 PM

71 Pitches, 4 hit shutout baseball.... we pull the pitcher... seriously Hurdle... whats in your big head anyways? Its not a brain.

Roxpert · May 8th, 2007, 08:18 PM

Unless Buchholz was on a strict pitch count of 70-75 pitches, it was moronic for Hurdle to pinch hit for him with "1 for 30" Baker. Taylor was on, and had just mowed through the heart of the Cards' order in the bottom of the 6th inning.

I also wouldn't have taken out Bautista after he loaded the bases. With one out, you need a K, and Bautista can get that. Arias can't.

BigRapidsJackass · May 8th, 2007, 08:32 PM

Geez, I take an inning break and all hell breaks loose in this one.

In principle, there's nothing wrong with pulling Buchholz. But c'mon; there is absolutely nobody Hurdle can trust in that "7th inning guy" role. Hawkins was awful and is on the DL. Ramirez was o.k. and is on the DL. Kim? So deep in the doghouse he's in danger of being put to sleep. Affeldt has been atrocious. McClellan is the best they have right now simply because he throws strikes and gets ahead, but I expect the gopher balls to start coming off him. Bautista? The right-handed Affeldt. Arias? I'm not seeing major league stuff. Kind of like Miguel Asencio, the throw-in in the Jennings trade. Speier? Already bombed.

My solution? Well, there isn't a very good one. But the best I can come up with is Ubaldo Jimenez in a relief role. I think it could help the Rockies, wouldn't hurt Jimenez, and might actually benefit him.

Roxpert · May 8th, 2007, 08:37 PM

Affeldt really would have done fine as the "7th inning guy" tonight. He pitched a 1-2-3 8th inning with 2 K's. Of course, I know that's in hindsight.

RMF · May 8th, 2007, 08:44 PM

Yorvit Torrealba is still getting half the starts. However, Chris Iannetta is clearly outplaying him. Hurdle gave up on Iannetta very quickly and started splitting the time. Now he's tardy on restoring the proper balance. I'm sure in Clints twisted head he believes that splitting the catching time is somehow beneficial for the team.

Oh the pain.

Roxpert · May 8th, 2007, 08:54 PM

RMF, gmta. I just started a thread on this.

wolf213 · May 8th, 2007, 10:43 PM

I've always been of the opinion that you should give your starters a chance to prove they are tired. Taylor was on tonight, If I'm manager I send him out in the seventh, and let him get himself in trouble. Pitch count shouldn't be an issue at 71 pitches. If Buchholtz gets into trouble, gives up a walk or a hit then you can go to your pen... but when the Pitcher has owned the Cards all night, let him go until he proves he's out of Gas.

BigRapidsJackass · May 8th, 2007, 11:01 PM

Hey, if we've got that Padres Meredith-Linebrink-Hoffmann thing going on in our bullpen, I'm all for pulling the less-than-dominating Buchholz.

But for Bautista and Arias? You gotta be kidding me.

DieHardRoxFan · May 8th, 2007, 11:50 PM

Buchholz stated after the game he wasn't on a pitch count and felt fine. If the Cooler had to pull him I was thinking Corpas for 6 outs, he hasn't pitched in a couple days, but he is the "8th inning only guy" and defined roles are more important than wins.

Roxpert · May 9th, 2007, 10:21 AM

Well, siince we now know that Buchholz wasn't on a pitch count, Hurdle is an absolute idiot to be pulling him there. At least let the kid start in the 7th inning, and see if he gets into a jam. Taylor was fine in the 6th inning against the best hitters the Cards have in the lineup, so I see no reason at all to pull him. Another Hurdle loss.

GerryInCS · May 9th, 2007, 10:29 AM

Once again. more proof that Clint is nowhere near capable of being a manager at the Major League level

indianadrew · May 9th, 2007, 10:34 AM

it seems to me that he leaves some people out too long.(jeff francis) some not long enough.(buchholz) some you wonder why at all.(tom martin) other not enough(manny corpas)

May 7th, 2007, 09:29 PM	#1 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,175	Rox at Cards, 5/7 - 5/9 thread Late starting this one. Let me just say this: a fantastic ballgame tonight. Well-pitched, well-played, with more than a little controversy. And let me say this, too: Tulo has been tremendous the last couple weeks. He got credited with 2 doubles tonight, but we all saw it was a double and a HR. We've seen him look good in the field, and the stats back it up: his Zone Rating so far is a very, very nice .860. For comparison: Barmes was at .845, and pretty much all the respectable metrics had him in the top 4 defensive shortstops in the NL. McClellan might just make it as a reliever. I remember watching one of those televised spring training games and thinking he looked pretty polished (certainly compared to Keppel and the like), and he's done nothing to change my mind since his call-up. He'll never dominate, but throwing strikes and missing more than a few bats is good enough for middle relief. And he didn't play tonight, but I'll add this as well: there's a perception that Iannetta has really been struggling. It's not true. He has a .707 OPS, which would be the best we've seen out of a Rockies catcher in quite some time. Torrealba's been excellent defensively, but his OPS? .534

May 8th, 2007, 08:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
RMF Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 206	Hurdle is twisted Yorvit Torrealba is still getting half the starts. However, Chris Iannetta is clearly outplaying him. Hurdle gave up on Iannetta very quickly and started splitting the time. Now he's tardy on restoring the proper balance. I'm sure in Clints twisted head he believes that splitting the catching time is somehow beneficial for the team. Oh the pain.

May 9th, 2007, 10:29 AM	#14 (permalink)
GerryInCS New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 635	Once again. more proof that Clint is nowhere near capable of being a manager at the Major League level __________________ Americans aren't afraid of Mexicans, Americans are afraid that Mexicans are turning America into Mexico.

May 7th, 2007, 09:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
TheIncredibleRox Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 322	I was going to make a similar post about Tulo's D.... night after night, I'm amazed. He's got an absolute cannon for an arm... I'd bet he could hit mid-90's off a mound. He gets to far more balls than any Rockies SS I've seen, and he's got real quickness and athleticism about him... case in point, that egregiously-awful takeout slide by Molina today. He doesn't--and never will--have the insanely smooth/soft hands of a Vizquel or Everett. But they're still pretty good, he's got an edge on both those guys in arm strength, and I'd be suprised if they get to a meaningfully higher # of balls than he does (he's not quite the acrobatic that Vizquel is, though). Best of all-- there's some decent evidence that he's on his way to being a significant force offensively.

May 8th, 2007, 06:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
RMF Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 206	I wonder where Matt Holliday will sign as a FA? St Louis possibly. He destroys these guys.

May 8th, 2007, 08:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
wolf213 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Thornton Co Posts: 197	71 Pitches, 4 hit shutout baseball.... we pull the pitcher... seriously Hurdle... whats in your big head anyways? Its not a brain.

May 8th, 2007, 08:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,082	Unless Buchholz was on a strict pitch count of 70-75 pitches, it was moronic for Hurdle to pinch hit for him with "1 for 30" Baker. Taylor was on, and had just mowed through the heart of the Cards' order in the bottom of the 6th inning. I also wouldn't have taken out Bautista after he loaded the bases. With one out, you need a K, and Bautista can get that. Arias can't.

May 8th, 2007, 08:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,175	Geez, I take an inning break and all hell breaks loose in this one. In principle, there's nothing wrong with pulling Buchholz. But c'mon; there is absolutely nobody Hurdle can trust in that "7th inning guy" role. Hawkins was awful and is on the DL. Ramirez was o.k. and is on the DL. Kim? So deep in the doghouse he's in danger of being put to sleep. Affeldt has been atrocious. McClellan is the best they have right now simply because he throws strikes and gets ahead, but I expect the gopher balls to start coming off him. Bautista? The right-handed Affeldt. Arias? I'm not seeing major league stuff. Kind of like Miguel Asencio, the throw-in in the Jennings trade. Speier? Already bombed. My solution? Well, there isn't a very good one. But the best I can come up with is Ubaldo Jimenez in a relief role. I think it could help the Rockies, wouldn't hurt Jimenez, and might actually benefit him.

May 8th, 2007, 08:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,082	Affeldt really would have done fine as the "7th inning guy" tonight. He pitched a 1-2-3 8th inning with 2 K's. Of course, I know that's in hindsight.

May 8th, 2007, 08:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,082	RMF, gmta. I just started a thread on this.

May 8th, 2007, 10:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
wolf213 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Thornton Co Posts: 197	I've always been of the opinion that you should give your starters a chance to prove they are tired. Taylor was on tonight, If I'm manager I send him out in the seventh, and let him get himself in trouble. Pitch count shouldn't be an issue at 71 pitches. If Buchholtz gets into trouble, gives up a walk or a hit then you can go to your pen... but when the Pitcher has owned the Cards all night, let him go until he proves he's out of Gas.

May 8th, 2007, 11:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,175	Hey, if we've got that Padres Meredith-Linebrink-Hoffmann thing going on in our bullpen, I'm all for pulling the less-than-dominating Buchholz. But for Bautista and Arias? You gotta be kidding me.

May 8th, 2007, 11:50 PM	#12 (permalink)
DieHardRoxFan Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 153	Buchholz stated after the game he wasn't on a pitch count and felt fine. If the Cooler had to pull him I was thinking Corpas for 6 outs, he hasn't pitched in a couple days, but he is the "8th inning only guy" and defined roles are more important than wins.

May 9th, 2007, 10:21 AM	#13 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,082	Well, siince we now know that Buchholz wasn't on a pitch count, Hurdle is an absolute idiot to be pulling him there. At least let the kid start in the 7th inning, and see if he gets into a jam. Taylor was fine in the 6th inning against the best hitters the Cards have in the lineup, so I see no reason at all to pull him. Another Hurdle loss.

May 9th, 2007, 10:34 AM	#15 (permalink)
indianadrew Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: indianapolis Posts: 698	it seems to me that he leaves some people out too long.(jeff francis) some not long enough.(buchholz) some you wonder why at all.(tom martin) other not enough(manny corpas)