Rockies at Arizona series thread

Roxpert · April 13th, 2007, 06:48 PM

Game #1 looks almost hopeless with a Fogg vs. Webb matchup. Then, The Cooler pulls the following lineup crap:

Finley cf
Matsui 2b
Mabry 3b
Helton 1b
Holliday lf
Hawpe rf
Tulowitzki ss
Torrealba c
Fogg p

So, Clint really feels that since our regular CF and 3B bat first and third respectively that their understudies also have to bat in the same spots in the order? And WHAT, exactly, has John Mabry done with the bat in the last few years (heck in his whole career) to merit batting 3rd in ANY starting lineup??

Sure, we haven't scored runs on the road, but do we then have to make it tougher by resting Atkins and not moving everyone else up a spot in the order??? Let's hope we don't get shut out again, this lineup is "Classic Cooler".

RMF · April 13th, 2007, 08:38 PM

Corpas showing some absolutely filthy stuff. Nobody had a chance.

RMF · April 13th, 2007, 08:40 PM

Does anyone think Manny could go back to being a SP? I mean is ball breaks all over the place. Seems like he's got a better sinker than Cook or Webb.

HoyaRoxFan · April 13th, 2007, 09:16 PM

Well, that was a different game. Struggles from the SP and the bullpen comes in and closes the door... fair enough.

Still frustrated that we could only get 4 extra-base hits... A lot of small ball happening on this team...

rockieprogress · April 13th, 2007, 09:44 PM

Why play Mabry at 3rd?

Hasn't Baker had a hot bat?
Doesn't he play 3rd?
Wouldn't he be a better #3 hitter?

Sometimes, this team wins against the odds put out for it by the Manager.

GoldGlove · April 13th, 2007, 10:30 PM

Our pitching has been phenomenal.

Check out the runs allowed in each game thus far:

8
3
4
3
3
2
3
2
3
3

As depressing as it is that we're only 5-5 desite that excellent starting pitching, this is very encouraging. It's not going to last forever, but at least we've seen two solid starts from every member of the rotation.

GerryInCS · April 14th, 2007, 12:05 AM

It's time to move Kaz to leadoff, Tulo to #2 and relegate the Taveras/Finley duo to the 8-hole.

HoyaRoxFan · April 14th, 2007, 07:15 AM

Tulo to #2??? He of the .176 batting average and .263 on base percentage? Long-term, I suspect he'll turn it around, but how on earth is it time now? If you want to shake things up, put Helton #2. He can't hit for power anymore, but at least he can get on base a lot and move Kaz over.

... One would also have to believe that Taveras playing 100 points below both his average and his OBP will correct itself a bit, though I'm fine with him figuring that out at the bottom of the lineup...

hiaspire · April 14th, 2007, 07:53 AM

Hopeless indeed.

indianadrew · April 14th, 2007, 08:15 AM

i hope that they learn from last year that you cant leave a slumping player in too long. tulo will be a great hitter sometime, but i dont think that he is ready yet. his defense seems pretty solid, but he is showing no patience at the plate. i too think he will turn it around, but at what expense. lets hope tulo turns it around and quickly

GerryInCS · April 14th, 2007, 09:46 AM

If you put Helton at #2, who do you put in at #3? Hawpe? Then who goes in at #6? CF or Catcher?

Heltonfan · April 14th, 2007, 09:54 AM

Tulo is the worst hitter in the lineup, and as such, should be hitting seventh or eighth. I'd go Atkins, Helton, Holliday, Hawpe, Iannetta, Matsui, Taveras, Tulowitzki.

Another point here is that basestealers, generally speaking, belong at the bottom of the lineup, because their CSs are far less damaging down there than they are with the big hitters coming up. The fact that Taveras and Matsui are far worse hitters than our big four makes this an absolute no-brainer.

hiaspire · April 14th, 2007, 03:20 PM

A no-brainer if the goal is to have Atkins lead the team in fewest opportunities to drive runs in.

Roxpert · April 14th, 2007, 03:38 PM

Hiaspire in his usual form, mocking my opening post when I referred to the #5 vs. #1 (and Cy Young) matchup as "almost hopeless". If you were referring to something else when mumbling "hopeless indeed", please speak up. Then, he objects to Heltonfan's creative, and correct, concept for a batting lineup without any better ideas of his own.

Typical.

BTW, "almost hopeless" isn't HOPELESS. It was a tough matchup that we would lose 70% of the time, especially with the way we've been hitting of late. Last night was one of those other 30% where we won, even despite Hurdle's nonsensical starting lineup decisions. I am happy that this team can often overcome their own manager and win despite him.

hiaspire · April 14th, 2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxpert

I am happy that this team can often overcome their own manager and win despite him.

When they lose, it's Hurdle's fault. Even when important players don't deliver on the field as expected. When they win, it's never to his credit. The analysis of the manager is about as objective as it gets...

The negative attitudes are what is hopeless. Someday people will notice that the manager and owners aren't on the field and that there is some actual hope within the talent on the field making the plays.

Those "creative" spreadsheet lineups with strong #3/4/5 type hitter hitting leadoff may work well in theory but that's all. They don't ever get close to reality. No manager wants his best player constantly up with no base runners on and in the least critical situations possible. The opposite is the ideal.

April 13th, 2007, 06:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,082	Rockies at Arizona series thread Game #1 looks almost hopeless with a Fogg vs. Webb matchup. Then, The Cooler pulls the following lineup crap: Finley cf Matsui 2b Mabry 3b Helton 1b Holliday lf Hawpe rf Tulowitzki ss Torrealba c Fogg p So, Clint really feels that since our regular CF and 3B bat first and third respectively that their understudies also have to bat in the same spots in the order? And WHAT, exactly, has John Mabry done with the bat in the last few years (heck in his whole career) to merit batting 3rd in ANY starting lineup?? Sure, we haven't scored runs on the road, but do we then have to make it tougher by resting Atkins and not moving everyone else up a spot in the order??? Let's hope we don't get shut out again, this lineup is "Classic Cooler".

April 14th, 2007, 12:05 AM	#7 (permalink)
GerryInCS New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 635	It's time to move Kaz to leadoff, Tulo to #2 and relegate the Taveras/Finley duo to the 8-hole. __________________ Americans aren't afraid of Mexicans, Americans are afraid that Mexicans are turning America into Mexico.

April 14th, 2007, 08:15 AM	#10 (permalink)
indianadrew Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: indianapolis Posts: 698	i hope that they learn from last year that you cant leave a slumping player in too long. tulo will be a great hitter sometime, but i dont think that he is ready yet. his defense seems pretty solid, but he is showing no patience at the plate. i too think he will turn it around, but at what expense. lets hope tulo turns it around and quickly __________________ please dont feed the trolls

April 14th, 2007, 09:46 AM	#11 (permalink)
GerryInCS New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 635	If you put Helton at #2, who do you put in at #3? Hawpe? Then who goes in at #6? CF or Catcher? __________________ Americans aren't afraid of Mexicans, Americans are afraid that Mexicans are turning America into Mexico.

April 14th, 2007, 09:54 AM	#12 (permalink)
Heltonfan Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Yerevan, Armenia Posts: 902	Tulo is the worst hitter in the lineup, and as such, should be hitting seventh or eighth. I'd go Atkins, Helton, Holliday, Hawpe, Iannetta, Matsui, Taveras, Tulowitzki. Another point here is that basestealers, generally speaking, belong at the bottom of the lineup, because their CSs are far less damaging down there than they are with the big hitters coming up. The fact that Taveras and Matsui are far worse hitters than our big four makes this an absolute no-brainer. Last edited by Heltonfan; April 14th, 2007 at 10:04 AM.

April 13th, 2007, 08:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
RMF Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 206	Corpas showing some absolutely filthy stuff. Nobody had a chance.

April 13th, 2007, 08:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
RMF Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 206	Does anyone think Manny could go back to being a SP? I mean is ball breaks all over the place. Seems like he's got a better sinker than Cook or Webb.

April 13th, 2007, 09:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
HoyaRoxFan Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 305	Well, that was a different game. Struggles from the SP and the bullpen comes in and closes the door... fair enough. Still frustrated that we could only get 4 extra-base hits... A lot of small ball happening on this team...

April 13th, 2007, 09:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
rockieprogress Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: aurora Posts: 183	Why play Mabry at 3rd? Hasn't Baker had a hot bat? Doesn't he play 3rd? Wouldn't he be a better #3 hitter? Sometimes, this team wins against the odds put out for it by the Manager.

April 13th, 2007, 10:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
GoldGlove Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City Posts: 38	Our pitching has been phenomenal. Check out the runs allowed in each game thus far: 8 3 4 3 3 2 3 2 3 3 As depressing as it is that we're only 5-5 desite that excellent starting pitching, this is very encouraging. It's not going to last forever, but at least we've seen two solid starts from every member of the rotation.

April 14th, 2007, 07:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
HoyaRoxFan Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 305	Tulo to #2??? He of the .176 batting average and .263 on base percentage? Long-term, I suspect he'll turn it around, but how on earth is it time now? If you want to shake things up, put Helton #2. He can't hit for power anymore, but at least he can get on base a lot and move Kaz over. ... One would also have to believe that Taveras playing 100 points below both his average and his OBP will correct itself a bit, though I'm fine with him figuring that out at the bottom of the lineup...

April 14th, 2007, 07:53 AM	#9 (permalink)
hiaspire Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 481	Hopeless indeed.

April 14th, 2007, 03:20 PM	#13 (permalink)
hiaspire Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 481	A no-brainer if the goal is to have Atkins lead the team in fewest opportunities to drive runs in. Last edited by hiaspire; April 14th, 2007 at 03:23 PM.

April 14th, 2007, 03:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,082	Hiaspire in his usual form, mocking my opening post when I referred to the #5 vs. #1 (and Cy Young) matchup as "almost hopeless". If you were referring to something else when mumbling "hopeless indeed", please speak up. Then, he objects to Heltonfan's creative, and correct, concept for a batting lineup without any better ideas of his own. Typical. BTW, "almost hopeless" isn't HOPELESS. It was a tough matchup that we would lose 70% of the time, especially with the way we've been hitting of late. Last night was one of those other 30% where we won, even despite Hurdle's nonsensical starting lineup decisions. I am happy that this team can often overcome their own manager and win despite him. Last edited by Roxpert; April 14th, 2007 at 03:47 PM.