Matt Holliday, the walking mental error

BigRapidsJackass · 04-03-2007, 08:54 PM

Yesterday he gave the D'backs a base with an ill-advised throw from the outfield.

Today, he gave the D'backs a run with an ill-advised throw from the outfield. 2 outs, base hit to left, Holliday doesn't pick it up cleanly, but still tries to throw out the runner. Iannetta actually makes the error because the throw itself wasn't a bad one. But, again, the problem is that the throw never should've been made. After bobbling the ball, Holliday had zero chance of getting the runner.

It won't show as an error on Holliday in the box score, but if the D'backs win by one run this will be the difference.

rockieprogress · 04-03-2007, 09:25 PM

Yesterday, on a ball hit into the corner, he took the worst line to the ball I've ever seen him take.
He guaranteed the extra base.

Good thing he went 0-fer, or people would be talking about his defense.

RMF · 04-03-2007, 09:52 PM

Mike Gallego is the worst 3rd base coach around. Helton and Atkins are slow. Not average, not below average runners. They are well below average. They are slow. When you get beat at the plate by 10 feet it's not a good send.

Apparently getting Hawkins to feel good about himself is the Rockies mission this season.

Holliday is stupid good. He's an incredibly stupid player but stupid enough to never lose confidence. He's stupid good!

BigRapidsJackass · 04-03-2007, 10:19 PM

I've got to agree with sending Atkins. Tulo was up next. I think the chances of a poor throw are better than of Tulo getting a hit. Not that Tulo's been bad, but he wouldn't have better than a 1 in 3 chance of getting Atkins home.

One thing I can say about the D'backs: they have a very, very good OF defense. Hairston, the guy who made the throw, has been superb, and Chris Young in CF is often called the next Mike Cameron. Carlos Quentin, on the DL, is almost as good.

Oh, and Willy T. sucks.

HoyaRoxFan · 04-03-2007, 10:46 PM

Yay rookies!!!!

Dante Bichette · 04-04-2007, 12:31 AM

Holliday should be our DH, but we play in the National League so that is a problem (wouldn't it be nice to have Baker's bat in the lineup most nights?)

Oh, and I am going to have to agree with BigRapids Jackass on the Tavares assesment. Should a leadoff hitter be that bad at making contact? I bet we see more of Finley as the year goes on.

BigRapidsJackass · 04-04-2007, 01:09 AM

Bring back Spilly!

Keeping Mabry instead of Spilborghs was a mistake.

2 games into the season and it's evident why the Astros gave up on Tavares. Even if he's acceptable as a leadoff hitter (and he has done well leading off the game already, with a pair of steals), everyone seemed to forget that he'll only lead off an inning once or twice (if he's lucky) a game. He's totally useless with runners on, so he needs to share CF with someone else.

Roxpert · 04-04-2007, 10:00 AM

Oh, Jackass, I think Taveras can still get his act together, and end up with an OBP close to .350. I don't get influenced by strikeout frequency. It has been putrid so far, with 6 K's in 9 AB's, but it's not a meaningful sample. Willy has K'd a LOT in the past, and still been able to have a decent average. Coors Field is supposed to cut K rates by 10 to 15%, so he still has hope to make better contact than that.

I do agree that Mabry is a waste. When Hurdle and, last night, Quirk use Jeff Baker as our first pinch hitter off the bench, it leaves us with Carroll (who pinch ran for Helton), Torrealba (who we'd like to use last as a PHer in case of injury to Iannetta), and two lefty PHers in Finley and Mabry. At least one of those remaining two should be righthanded, in my view.

Alternatively, if they keep both Finley and Mabry, they can cut one reliever and go with a 6-man bullpen, which would provide a roster spot for someone like Spilly. Why do we have to have a 12-man staff this time of year (early, fresh arms, lots of off-days) anyway? I'm sure it's just another uncreative Hurdle call.

But don't worry too much about the Taveras K's yet. He's still someone who can get close to .300/.350/.380 this season........I think.

GerryInCS · 04-04-2007, 12:39 PM

Roxpert, the Rox should never go to a six-man bullpen. As bad the starting pitching is and as bad as the bullpen can be, they need every arm they can get. For now, 7 is the number.

Roxpert · 04-04-2007, 01:51 PM

Gerry, they've done it in past seasons at times, especially in April when bullpen arms are fresh and there are plenty of off days. It also depends on the resilience of the relievers you have. Right now, we have guys like Buchholz and Kim, both of whom have been starters and can go multiple innings. Heck, even Ramirez was a starter in the minors and can go for 2 innings. Fuentes also proved, in his pre-closer days, that he can be very effective going for 2 innings. Why Hurdle ONLY uses Brian for the 9th inning, and never gives him even 1 1/3 or 1 2/3 innings to save a game is beyond me.

So, I think our bullpen could more than survive with 6 right now, and if they run into trouble or fatigue, the roster can be changed again at a moment's notice. The key is how many innings our #'s 3 through 5 starters can eat. If they struggle badly, then you may be right about needing 7 relievers.

HoyaRoxFan · 04-04-2007, 07:49 PM

Going back to a 6 man bullpen would be a big vote of confidence in the rotation. If Lopez continues to pitch like he pitched today... this would be warranted.

But in another thread, we were discussing the fears about the bullpen as it now stands. What if that is also warranted? I think being able to have Buchholz AND Kim AND Ramirez is a greater value than Spilborghs off the bench... especially if Affeldt tries to do ballet on the mound again...

BigRapidsJackass · 04-04-2007, 09:02 PM

All is right with the world again after taking 2 of 3.

I don't have a real problem with a veteran LH pinch hitter like Mabry. After all, Mark Sweeney and Greg Norton made nice contributions in that role.

But this year it looks like the pinch hitter will be needed only for the pitchers' spot. If you're not going to pinch hit for the SS (Tulo) or the C (Iannetta/Torrealba) anymore, you just don't need that extra pure pinch hitter.

What they do need is another guy who can play CF, because the do need to pinch hit for Willy in RBI situations. The classic example will come up soon: runner on 3rd, less than 2 outs, Willy T. due up. Do you think he can get the runner home?

I don't. Spilborghs is the best option now for that 25th roster spot. They could've used him in 2 of these first 3 games; meanwhile, Mabry never left the dugout.

HoyaRoxFan · 04-04-2007, 09:59 PM

God willing, you'll be right, Jackass. Can you imagine? If September arrives and the biggest discussion on this board is whether or not we've wasted the 25th roster spot all year on Mabry, because we didn't need to ever pinch hit for the SS or C. What a huge step forward that would be for the Rockies.

What's wrong with Finley and Willy splitting time in CF?

I'll hedge my bets for the moment and be happy we have Mabry on the roster in this very young season... If he becomes a fifth wheel come May or June, maybe we can spin him off with BK for some more valuable parts.

RMF · 04-04-2007, 10:37 PM

Is it too early to wonder about the Jennings trade?

BigRapidsJackass · 04-04-2007, 11:33 PM

Yes.

Let's wait till Hirsh's first start.

04-03-2007, 08:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,123	Matt Holliday, the walking mental error Yesterday he gave the D'backs a base with an ill-advised throw from the outfield. Today, he gave the D'backs a run with an ill-advised throw from the outfield. 2 outs, base hit to left, Holliday doesn't pick it up cleanly, but still tries to throw out the runner. Iannetta actually makes the error because the throw itself wasn't a bad one. But, again, the problem is that the throw never should've been made. After bobbling the ball, Holliday had zero chance of getting the runner. It won't show as an error on Holliday in the box score, but if the D'backs win by one run this will be the difference.

04-03-2007, 09:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
RMF Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 201	Mike Gallego is the worst 3rd base coach around. Helton and Atkins are slow. Not average, not below average runners. They are well below average. They are slow. When you get beat at the plate by 10 feet it's not a good send. Apparently getting Hawkins to feel good about himself is the Rockies mission this season. Holliday is stupid good. He's an incredibly stupid player but stupid enough to never lose confidence. He's stupid good! Last edited by RMF; 04-03-2007 at 09:55 PM.

04-04-2007, 10:00 AM	#8 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,023	Oh, Jackass, I think Taveras can still get his act together, and end up with an OBP close to .350. I don't get influenced by strikeout frequency. It has been putrid so far, with 6 K's in 9 AB's, but it's not a meaningful sample. Willy has K'd a LOT in the past, and still been able to have a decent average. Coors Field is supposed to cut K rates by 10 to 15%, so he still has hope to make better contact than that. I do agree that Mabry is a waste. When Hurdle and, last night, Quirk use Jeff Baker as our first pinch hitter off the bench, it leaves us with Carroll (who pinch ran for Helton), Torrealba (who we'd like to use last as a PHer in case of injury to Iannetta), and two lefty PHers in Finley and Mabry. At least one of those remaining two should be righthanded, in my view. Alternatively, if they keep both Finley and Mabry, they can cut one reliever and go with a 6-man bullpen, which would provide a roster spot for someone like Spilly. Why do we have to have a 12-man staff this time of year (early, fresh arms, lots of off-days) anyway? I'm sure it's just another uncreative Hurdle call. But don't worry too much about the Taveras K's yet. He's still someone who can get close to .300/.350/.380 this season........I think. Last edited by Roxpert; 04-04-2007 at 10:03 AM.

04-04-2007, 12:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
GerryInCS Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 627	Roxpert, the Rox should never go to a six-man bullpen. As bad the starting pitching is and as bad as the bullpen can be, they need every arm they can get. For now, 7 is the number. __________________ Americans aren't afraid of Mexicans, Americans are afraid that Mexicans are turning America into Mexico.

04-03-2007, 09:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
rockieprogress Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: aurora Posts: 183	Yesterday, on a ball hit into the corner, he took the worst line to the ball I've ever seen him take. He guaranteed the extra base. Good thing he went 0-fer, or people would be talking about his defense.

04-03-2007, 10:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,123	I've got to agree with sending Atkins. Tulo was up next. I think the chances of a poor throw are better than of Tulo getting a hit. Not that Tulo's been bad, but he wouldn't have better than a 1 in 3 chance of getting Atkins home. One thing I can say about the D'backs: they have a very, very good OF defense. Hairston, the guy who made the throw, has been superb, and Chris Young in CF is often called the next Mike Cameron. Carlos Quentin, on the DL, is almost as good. Oh, and Willy T. sucks.

04-03-2007, 10:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
HoyaRoxFan Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 282	Yay rookies!!!!

04-04-2007, 12:31 AM	#6 (permalink)
Dante Bichette Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 268	Holliday should be our DH, but we play in the National League so that is a problem (wouldn't it be nice to have Baker's bat in the lineup most nights?) Oh, and I am going to have to agree with BigRapids Jackass on the Tavares assesment. Should a leadoff hitter be that bad at making contact? I bet we see more of Finley as the year goes on.

04-04-2007, 01:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,123	Bring back Spilly! Keeping Mabry instead of Spilborghs was a mistake. 2 games into the season and it's evident why the Astros gave up on Tavares. Even if he's acceptable as a leadoff hitter (and he has done well leading off the game already, with a pair of steals), everyone seemed to forget that he'll only lead off an inning once or twice (if he's lucky) a game. He's totally useless with runners on, so he needs to share CF with someone else.

04-04-2007, 01:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,023	Gerry, they've done it in past seasons at times, especially in April when bullpen arms are fresh and there are plenty of off days. It also depends on the resilience of the relievers you have. Right now, we have guys like Buchholz and Kim, both of whom have been starters and can go multiple innings. Heck, even Ramirez was a starter in the minors and can go for 2 innings. Fuentes also proved, in his pre-closer days, that he can be very effective going for 2 innings. Why Hurdle ONLY uses Brian for the 9th inning, and never gives him even 1 1/3 or 1 2/3 innings to save a game is beyond me. So, I think our bullpen could more than survive with 6 right now, and if they run into trouble or fatigue, the roster can be changed again at a moment's notice. The key is how many innings our #'s 3 through 5 starters can eat. If they struggle badly, then you may be right about needing 7 relievers.

04-04-2007, 07:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
HoyaRoxFan Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 282	Going back to a 6 man bullpen would be a big vote of confidence in the rotation. If Lopez continues to pitch like he pitched today... this would be warranted. But in another thread, we were discussing the fears about the bullpen as it now stands. What if that is also warranted? I think being able to have Buchholz AND Kim AND Ramirez is a greater value than Spilborghs off the bench... especially if Affeldt tries to do ballet on the mound again...

04-04-2007, 09:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,123	All is right with the world again after taking 2 of 3. I don't have a real problem with a veteran LH pinch hitter like Mabry. After all, Mark Sweeney and Greg Norton made nice contributions in that role. But this year it looks like the pinch hitter will be needed only for the pitchers' spot. If you're not going to pinch hit for the SS (Tulo) or the C (Iannetta/Torrealba) anymore, you just don't need that extra pure pinch hitter. What they do need is another guy who can play CF, because the do need to pinch hit for Willy in RBI situations. The classic example will come up soon: runner on 3rd, less than 2 outs, Willy T. due up. Do you think he can get the runner home? I don't. Spilborghs is the best option now for that 25th roster spot. They could've used him in 2 of these first 3 games; meanwhile, Mabry never left the dugout.

04-04-2007, 09:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
HoyaRoxFan Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 282	God willing, you'll be right, Jackass. Can you imagine? If September arrives and the biggest discussion on this board is whether or not we've wasted the 25th roster spot all year on Mabry, because we didn't need to ever pinch hit for the SS or C. What a huge step forward that would be for the Rockies. What's wrong with Finley and Willy splitting time in CF? I'll hedge my bets for the moment and be happy we have Mabry on the roster in this very young season... If he becomes a fifth wheel come May or June, maybe we can spin him off with BK for some more valuable parts.

04-04-2007, 10:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
RMF Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 201	Is it too early to wonder about the Jennings trade?

04-04-2007, 11:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,123	Yes. Let's wait till Hirsh's first start.