2 year extension for o'dowd, hurdle - Page 2

hiaspire · April 3rd, 2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRapidsJackass

Y'know what's weird?

I was at the game yesterday, and I can't recall any announcement about the extensions (even though I guess the press release went out before game time).

Why not?

Well, I'm guessing that such an announcement would've been met with a chorus of boos.

It would have gotten some, but Hurdle is much more popular in the stands than he is on this message board.

In fairness, do they ever announce those things in the stadium? Maybe some do, but I don't really ever recall ever hearing anything like that (or a player signing a contract, etc.) at a stadium during a game.

Roxpert · April 3rd, 2007, 08:17 AM

Hey, HiAspire, the Monforts didn't even hold a press conference to announce this. As Woody Paige observed this morning, they probably didn't want to since giving out reasons for these extensions, and the timing, would have been difficult.

Hurdle "more popular in the stands"???? Wow, I have never heard ONE person sitting near me cheer for Clint, or say anything nice about him. The AM950 The Fan poll this morning, on the extensions, says it all. Last I checked, 71% said it was "insane", 26% responded by saying "It doesn't matter, baseball is dead in Denver", and only 3% said "We are going in the right direction, and this was the right move". Popular, my rear!

hiaspire · April 3rd, 2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxpert

Hey, HiAspire, the Monforts didn't even hold a press conference to announce this. As Woody Paige observed this morning, they probably didn't want to since giving out reasons for these extensions, and the timing, would have been difficult.

And I'm not here to defend the extensions. That's something different. As I said at the time they were first rumored, I don't think there is any reason to do it now. I was not happy over that. If you want to reward them after putting together a great first half of continued improvement at the all-star break or something, that's a little more understandable than telling your fans this is their year for accountability and then reversing course completely. As it stands now, if this team really goes down the toilet, they will have given up their flexibility (or at least will cost them more to act) and will look incredibly foolish unneccessarily. It wasn't like our leadership duo was being wooed from other rival teams and we had to act immediately to keep them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxpert

Hurdle "more popular in the stands"????... Popular, my rear!

Who do you sit next to? The crowds in the stadium are much more family oriented these days (for which Hurdle is a sympathetic figure with his family situation) and there are many faithful who have stuck with the team through thick and thin for the most part and are more loyal in that way than a lot of message board posters ranting and raving frustratingly in comparision (for better or worse). Just different kinds of folks in both places, though certainly there is a lot of overlap especially when talking about tens of thousands of people. That side issue doesn't really matter, but it wouldn't take much to meet my COMPARISION to this place where name calling becomes a favorite sport and everything is always his fault. The people still buying the tickets generally tend to be a little more OPTIMISTIC than the reaction in anger and frustration here. Not universally for sure, but certainly I run across more positivity in the stands and amongst the general population than here in regards to him.

GerryInCS · April 3rd, 2007, 10:54 AM

One should not base their opinion of a manager by the family hardships he goes through. It should be based on the decisions he makes and how his players respond to his decisions and coaching.

hiaspire · April 3rd, 2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GerryInCS

One should not base their opinion of a manager by the family hardships he goes through. It should be based on the decisions he makes and how his players respond to his decisions and coaching.

Certainly, but was just speaking in terms of general attitudes and feelings amongst fans for a person. That stuff is meaningless here in analysis mode, as we want the darn heartless numbers instead but just like political elections amongst the general mass populus sometimes the issues and numbers aren't as important as likability within a group. There isn't the same kind of utter hatred and knee-jerk blame amongst the general loyal season ticket base IMO who I have talked with many who like him as a person quite a bit.

My comment was just that I find there are more people who generally like Hurdle personally more in the stands than on this site. We can keep debating that, but it's not really important and should be obvious to anyone who has been to both. I don't think they would announce the off-field signing at the game whether these guys were popular or not, but the reaction here would be much worse IMO than amongst fans still paying and still many somewhat on board with their direction with their dollar votes.

Dante Bichette · April 3rd, 2007, 02:56 PM

I like Hurdle a lot as a person. I got a chance to meet him down in Tucson a couple of years ago and he took the time to talk to me and others and sign autographs for the kids. He was very down to earth. He also strikes me as a high energy and positive guy, which is an important attribute for a leader. However, his baseball decisions and game management skills seem to be well below par for a major league manager and his decisions seem to be made ahead of time, i.e. in this situation I will always do this, rather than making decisions based on instinct.

In other sports there are always coaches who are good assistants but never good as head coaches. This is especially true in football. Guys like Norv Turner and Dick Leabeu have been great coordinators over the years, but have failed when made head coach. Hurdle strikes me as the same kind of guy. He may be a very good hitting coach and an important member of a quality coaching staff, he has many qualities and skills that are helpful, but he seems to be in over his head as a manager where he must make the strategic decisions, which is a huge weakness of his in my opinion.

Roxpert · April 3rd, 2007, 04:12 PM

I too think Hurdle is a swell guy. I have a close friend whose young son has the same affliction that Hurdle's child has. He has met Clint at certain functions in town, and swears by him as a "great person". I don't really doubt that at all (even if he has been married three times).

What I do doubt is Hurdle's COMPETENCE as a major-league manager. He hasn't shown much growth from his first year here with respect to his roster, bullpen, lineup, and tactical decisions during games. This franchise, on a strict budget, can't afford a manager who routinely throws about 5 or 6 games away every year with poor decisions. We need a manager to run a tighter ship, and be heads-up......the way Dick Williams was with the Red Sox and A's over 30 years ago.

Is that too much to ask? Apparently, with these owners.

rockieprogress · April 3rd, 2007, 05:49 PM

HiAspire, Are you nuts? I've gone to plenty of games, and sat everywhere but the RF porch, and the LF seats. I've never heard ANYONE say a nice comment about Hurdle.

NEVER

When the team goes on a protracted losing streak, and I'm sure they will, Hurdle should be FIRED.
Instead, with Girardi available, the Monforts gave him an extension?

AYFKM

I wasn't going to say anything, but his leaving Mabry on the bench yesterday is proof that he has no idea how to manage when the pressure is on (kind of like Holliday's hitting).

I don't care if he came up with the cure for cancer, he should be fired as a MANAGER of a MLB Team.

If he wants to go on a fund raising campaign for his causes, I'll support him.
As a Manager? NEVER.

BigRapidsJackass · April 3rd, 2007, 07:01 PM

"AYFKM", huh?

I had to google that one ... I figured it out.

I have to agree. Not just at the ballpark, but at work, at sports bars, everywhere: I have yet to meet anyone who supports Hurdle as a manager.

If Monfort thinks there'll be an upwelling of good feeling about retaining Hurdle, he must be showing the effects of the mad cow disease from hanging around daddy's meat cutting plant too long.

indianadrew · April 4th, 2007, 09:39 AM

AYFKM

nice

hoser · April 5th, 2007, 05:20 PM

I have to agree I have not heard any significant support from fans at the games or around town. Almost everyone I talk to, or hear talking about Hurdle, is luke warm at best and in most cases they are anti-Hurdle as a manager and leader of a MLB team.

Rankal · April 6th, 2007, 12:11 AM

It's becoming harder and harder to cheer for your hometeam when you can't stand the people in charge of it.

I have to agree ... baseball is almost dead in Denver.

rockieprogress · April 21st, 2007, 09:00 PM

April 21, 2007

The day I would fire the Manager.

He can't motivate this team, and therefore should be replaced.
Why should the fans have to sit through another year of poorly managed, and poorly coached, Baseball?
Bottom of the ninth, a man on, and you send Barmes to the plate? That's inexcuseable IMO.

hiaspire · April 21st, 2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockieprogress

Bottom of the ninth, a man on, and you send Barmes to the plate? That's inexcuseable IMO.

Why? They had used several pinch-hitters already. This wasn't the tying run at the plate. Barmes already had two hits tonight and they needed another baserunner. Are you going to pinch-hit Tulo for him? Wasn't the pitcher's spot also coming up shortly after that and would also need a pinch-hitter for that? I personally can't see too much inexcusable there specifically.

I would have fired them all long ago and not given any extentions the first time around, but not for this incident.

rockieprogress · April 22nd, 2007, 11:32 AM

Hiaspire, how many times do we need to see Barmes try to hit a ball, while farting on the opposing dugout, before we figure out he's not the best person for the job?

Why bat Barmes, when Baker is on the bench? Then, when (if) the pitchers spot comes up, you have Tulo take the at-bat.
Surely you agree that Baker is a better hitter than Barmes, and Tulo is a better hitter than a RP?
Some might want to say we should be comparing Barmes to Tulo, if we save Baker to hit for the pitchers spot. But if they don't get to the pitchers spot, saving Baker is a moot point.

After loading up the bases in the previous 2 innings, and failing both times to score, is it that unrealistic to think they couldn't do it again?
Shouldn't they be playing to do just that?

Not playing to get your best players in the right situations is a failure of "in-game" strategy. As Roxpert has pointed out before, Hurdle FAILS in "in-game" strategy, and this was another example of it.

I'd fire him.

April 3rd, 2007, 10:54 AM	#19 (permalink)
GerryInCS New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 635	One should not base their opinion of a manager by the family hardships he goes through. It should be based on the decisions he makes and how his players respond to his decisions and coaching. __________________ Americans aren't afraid of Mexicans, Americans are afraid that Mexicans are turning America into Mexico.

April 3rd, 2007, 08:17 AM	#17 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,082	Hey, HiAspire, the Monforts didn't even hold a press conference to announce this. As Woody Paige observed this morning, they probably didn't want to since giving out reasons for these extensions, and the timing, would have been difficult. Hurdle "more popular in the stands"???? Wow, I have never heard ONE person sitting near me cheer for Clint, or say anything nice about him. The AM950 The Fan poll this morning, on the extensions, says it all. Last I checked, 71% said it was "insane", 26% responded by saying "It doesn't matter, baseball is dead in Denver", and only 3% said "We are going in the right direction, and this was the right move". Popular, my rear!

April 3rd, 2007, 02:56 PM	#21 (permalink)
Dante Bichette Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 272	I like Hurdle a lot as a person. I got a chance to meet him down in Tucson a couple of years ago and he took the time to talk to me and others and sign autographs for the kids. He was very down to earth. He also strikes me as a high energy and positive guy, which is an important attribute for a leader. However, his baseball decisions and game management skills seem to be well below par for a major league manager and his decisions seem to be made ahead of time, i.e. in this situation I will always do this, rather than making decisions based on instinct. In other sports there are always coaches who are good assistants but never good as head coaches. This is especially true in football. Guys like Norv Turner and Dick Leabeu have been great coordinators over the years, but have failed when made head coach. Hurdle strikes me as the same kind of guy. He may be a very good hitting coach and an important member of a quality coaching staff, he has many qualities and skills that are helpful, but he seems to be in over his head as a manager where he must make the strategic decisions, which is a huge weakness of his in my opinion.

April 3rd, 2007, 04:12 PM	#22 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,082	I too think Hurdle is a swell guy. I have a close friend whose young son has the same affliction that Hurdle's child has. He has met Clint at certain functions in town, and swears by him as a "great person". I don't really doubt that at all (even if he has been married three times). What I do doubt is Hurdle's COMPETENCE as a major-league manager. He hasn't shown much growth from his first year here with respect to his roster, bullpen, lineup, and tactical decisions during games. This franchise, on a strict budget, can't afford a manager who routinely throws about 5 or 6 games away every year with poor decisions. We need a manager to run a tighter ship, and be heads-up......the way Dick Williams was with the Red Sox and A's over 30 years ago. Is that too much to ask? Apparently, with these owners.

April 3rd, 2007, 05:49 PM	#23 (permalink)
rockieprogress Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: aurora Posts: 183	HiAspire, Are you nuts? I've gone to plenty of games, and sat everywhere but the RF porch, and the LF seats. I've never heard ANYONE say a nice comment about Hurdle. NEVER When the team goes on a protracted losing streak, and I'm sure they will, Hurdle should be FIRED. Instead, with Girardi available, the Monforts gave him an extension? AYFKM I wasn't going to say anything, but his leaving Mabry on the bench yesterday is proof that he has no idea how to manage when the pressure is on (kind of like Holliday's hitting). I don't care if he came up with the cure for cancer, he should be fired as a MANAGER of a MLB Team. If he wants to go on a fund raising campaign for his causes, I'll support him. As a Manager? NEVER.

April 3rd, 2007, 07:01 PM	#24 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,175	"AYFKM", huh? I had to google that one ... I figured it out. I have to agree. Not just at the ballpark, but at work, at sports bars, everywhere: I have yet to meet anyone who supports Hurdle as a manager. If Monfort thinks there'll be an upwelling of good feeling about retaining Hurdle, he must be showing the effects of the mad cow disease from hanging around daddy's meat cutting plant too long.

April 4th, 2007, 09:39 AM	#25 (permalink)
indianadrew Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: indianapolis Posts: 698	AYFKM nice

April 5th, 2007, 05:20 PM	#26 (permalink)
hoser Rookie Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 13	I have to agree I have not heard any significant support from fans at the games or around town. Almost everyone I talk to, or hear talking about Hurdle, is luke warm at best and in most cases they are anti-Hurdle as a manager and leader of a MLB team.

April 6th, 2007, 12:11 AM	#27 (permalink)
Rankal Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 84	It's becoming harder and harder to cheer for your hometeam when you can't stand the people in charge of it. I have to agree ... baseball is almost dead in Denver.

April 21st, 2007, 09:00 PM	#28 (permalink)
rockieprogress Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: aurora Posts: 183	April 21, 2007 The day I would fire the Manager. He can't motivate this team, and therefore should be replaced. Why should the fans have to sit through another year of poorly managed, and poorly coached, Baseball? Bottom of the ninth, a man on, and you send Barmes to the plate? That's inexcuseable IMO.

April 22nd, 2007, 11:32 AM	#30 (permalink)
rockieprogress Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: aurora Posts: 183	Hiaspire, how many times do we need to see Barmes try to hit a ball, while farting on the opposing dugout, before we figure out he's not the best person for the job? Why bat Barmes, when Baker is on the bench? Then, when (if) the pitchers spot comes up, you have Tulo take the at-bat. Surely you agree that Baker is a better hitter than Barmes, and Tulo is a better hitter than a RP? Some might want to say we should be comparing Barmes to Tulo, if we save Baker to hit for the pitchers spot. But if they don't get to the pitchers spot, saving Baker is a moot point. After loading up the bases in the previous 2 innings, and failing both times to score, is it that unrealistic to think they couldn't do it again? Shouldn't they be playing to do just that? Not playing to get your best players in the right situations is a failure of "in-game" strategy. As Roxpert has pointed out before, Hurdle FAILS in "in-game" strategy, and this was another example of it. I'd fire him.