First dumb Hurdle move of the season....

[BigRapidsJackass]

Aspire, thank you for reminding me of the silver lining. Hurdle will be absent for at least one game this year.

[Roxpert]

To even bring up unintentional HBPs in this discussion is absurd.

But there are certainly many a week we see with our own eyes that do result in tempers being displayed outside of coaching control and players jawing at each other and tensions rising and anger building.

You see emotions from HBPs many times a week? I don't. Maybe 5 or 6 times a year......but maybe you watch more games than me.

Just live in the real world as Jackass suggested and acknowledge the probabitility that Hurdle did a poor job managing the situation (no matter WHO came up with the decision to throw that pitch).

[hiaspire]

To even bring up unintentional HBPs in this discussion is absurd.

What is absurd is you thinking I brought it up. I never made that distinction or brought up unintentional anything. You did. You were the one focused on that tangent and going down that implied road unneccessarily. I just mentioned that you completely misrepresented my statements that were not just about quantity of suspensions/fights or whatever other assumptions you were making. I was speaking about player anger in general terms involving events on the field that can lead to it, and never once brought up unintentional HBPs or that all HBPs cause emotion on the field. I don't believe those things and have said as much. You were the one making a federal case about quantifying things and in response certainly there are lots of batters getting hit to put some kind of quantifiable perspective towards, but as I have said there are no statistical breakdowns of the unintentional differentiation you are making as there is much difference of opinion on the field about many of those.

Originally Posted by Roxpert

You see emotions from HBPs many times a week? I don't. Maybe 5 or 6 times a year......but maybe you watch more games than me.

Just live in the real world as Jackass suggested and acknowledge the probabitility that Hurdle did a poor job managing the situation (no matter WHO came up with the decision to throw that pitch).

Maybe we should count them this year in that case. You are probably right on the money with only 6 batters all year getting upset when they get hit by a pitch and some emotions being displayed in the manner I discussed (again not just fights/suspensions). We'll get there well before April ends I'd wager, but of course there would probably be all kinds of tangential nitpicking applied that we don't need to get into further. Everytime I get out to the park, it seems like if a player gets hit there is going to be some complaining and yelling back and fourth a good deal of the time at least. Again, though, that number is really beside the actual point about that player factor being initially ignored entirely and it needing to be included for a fair assessment of the overall picture.

About Hurdle doing a bad job there, as I already told you I would put Hurdle to the exact same standards there as I would hold any manager in baseball if his players defended themselves on the field when getting thrown at. I don't think those other managers are doing a poor job when their players get ticked after getting hit in the batter's box. I believe most players would no matter who their manager was. It is the situation and event and natural player emotions that dictates that more so than the manager in the dugout.

I don't see any problem with the young Rockies saying enough is enough and pushing back when they felt bullied, and even think it is positive in their collective team development and agree with similar sentiments expressed by the players themselves and those reporting on the team.

[Roxpert]

Originally Posted by hiaspire

To even bring up unintentional HBPs in this discussion is absurd.

What is absurd is you thinking I brought it up. I never made that distinction or brought up unintentional anything. You did.

Now you are getting completely circular. The reason the unintentional HBP came up is that YOU SAID IT. I asked how Hurdle's situation arises "several times a week everywhere", and you then responded by saying that paragraph said HBPs, intentional and unintentional, happen several times a week.

DUH!

That's why it's absurd to bring that up in DEFENSE OF HURDLE. HiAspire, your mind is going in circles on this, and if you're now to the point of denying that you brought it up, when THAT'S WHAT YOU DID, then I think this conversation has run its course.

[hiaspire]

If it has run its course then shut the heck up.

I didn't say a damn thing about unintentional HBPs. That was all you and you relying upon your own assumptions and implying things to argue against instead of what is actually said. For the last frickin time, there is no stat I know for "accidental" versus "intentional" to meet your demands for this tangential quantification. Absolutely tons of hitters get hit each week, though, and that applies some quantifiable perspective. I never said all HBPs result in confontations or anger. That quantity you keep focusing on is not a very relevant point to get stuck on anyway, as I told you that number is entirely beside the actual point of players getting upset being commonplace in the game which you don't seem to disagree with either. So that's that. As I said long ago, hopefully you can agree to that basic point and forget these damn pointless tangents you seem to prefer over the primary issue.

in DEFENSE OF HURDLE

It is not in defense of Hurdle. I've already told you repeatedly, it is in defense of a comprehensive picture that doesn't assume facts not in evidence and doesn't outright ignore reasonable possibilities otherwise.

[Roxpert]

Originally Posted by hiaspire

If it has run its course then shut the heck up.

Oooh......I feel like a guest on Bill O'Reilly's show. Told to shut up by the man who won't leave anything alone without getting the last word in. Good one, Aspire.