2007 Rockies Offseason Thread | Rumors/Transactions/Discussion - Page 3

hoser · December 4th, 2006, 11:14 PM

Steve Phillips of ESPN reported that the 3 team trade between Colorado, Chicago, and Pittsburgh would come down as follows...

Chicago Cubs get Jason Jennings
Pittsburgh Pirates get Brad Hawpe
Colorado gets Paul Maholm, Carlos Marmol, Jacque Jones

I don't like this deal for a couple reasons.

I don't see Maholm or Marmol as being an upgrade to Jennings and Jones wouldn't be an upgrade to Hawpe. Basically, the Rockies would be giving up better talent for more bodies.

This doesn't address the need for a starting centerfielder. If you're going to trade your #1 pitcher you better fill your biggest hole in the process. Jennings may not be a #1 on a lot of teams but he is on the Rockies.

Proven starting pitching is at a premium this off season with lots of teams trying to fill a need. Jennings is a hot commodity and the Rockies should use it to their advantage to get a starting centerfielder and at least one young arm if not two.

I'd pass on this deal if I were O'Dowd.

BigRapidsJackass · December 4th, 2006, 11:55 PM

Thankfully Steve Phillips has a track record of being wrong on things like this.

Maholm is ok, but is really the poor man's Jeff Francis. He's 4th starter material. Gorzelanny is the guy you want from the Pirates.

Hawpe is better than Jacque Jones right now, and time is on his side. O'Dowd apparently thinks he can flip Jones elsewhere, but I'm not sure anyone really wants him. He was clearly a mistake signing, and that's why the Cubs already want to move him.

Marmol is also nothing special.

We can do better than this ... I'm all in favor of trading JJ rather than getting nothing for him when he walks a year from now, but you're certain to get better value for him in Spring or early summer.

Heltonfan · December 5th, 2006, 07:22 AM

Wow, that's about as absurd a rumor as I've seen in a long time. It's comforting to see it coming from Steve Phillips rather than someone like Gammons or Rosenthal.

No need to bother analyzing the idea in depth. Suffice it to say that I'd make the deal if it was Zach Duke coming our way instead of Maholm.

DieHardRoxFan · December 5th, 2006, 11:10 AM

If O'Dowd can't come up with a better deal than this for Jennings and Hawpe he should be run out of town.

sg8335aa · December 5th, 2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

An official of one club that had talked with Colorado said there is "no way" that's going to happen. And another source said the Cubs are "not down any road on any trade with any team." An official of another club that has spoken with the Rockies about Jennings said there is just about a zero chance that Colorado will trade him before leaving the meetings. "I don't think a reasonable deal could be made on him right now," the official said. "They're certainly not in any panic to move him. They can sure afford him, so it's not like they're going to non-tender him or anything. In other words, there's no gun to their head to move him. So the price is really high."

That is from Jayson Stark on ESPN.com directed towards the "three-team deal between Cubs/Pitt/Rockies. I like the quotes. This is EXACTLY how the Rockies should be treating this situation....asking for the moon.

Also, as reported by Purple Row, The Rockies made a 3 year $21 million offer to Jeff Suppan. Suppan turned the deal down and is trying to get $10 million per year.

GerryInCS · December 5th, 2006, 01:39 PM

Suppan at 10 mil? Padilla at 11 mil per. what the hell is the world coming to? Do baseball GMs enjoy overpaying for mediocrity? At least the Rox are doing it on the cheap.

TheIncredibleRox · December 5th, 2006, 03:34 PM

Wow. I just discovered that Jeff Suppan is only 31, and I'm amazed. I swear he only gets 1 year older every 3 years or so.

ML debut was in '95. Wow.

I remember he and Jose Rosado were a pair of promising youngsters at the front of the KC rotation in the late 90's. Poor Jose. If I remember correctly, the consensus was Rosado was the more talented, higher-ceiling guy. Too bad Jose fell of the face of the Earth, and has to watch his buddy collect million after million.

BigRapidsJackass · December 5th, 2006, 06:59 PM

Suppan used to throw very hard.

Used to ...

By the way, that "we made a 3 year/21 million offer to Suppan" thing is a bunch of crap.

It's easy to make that kind of claim -- looking like a big spender, showing the fans you really are committed to improving next year -- when you know your ass will never have to pick up the check.

GoldGlove · December 5th, 2006, 09:56 PM

O'Dowd and Hurdle have denied the Jennings to Chicago, Hawpe to Pittsburgh rumors. As for the reasons why, my favorite quote comes from Hurdle:

"We're not peddling flesh."

Just let that one marinate for awhile...

rockieprogress · December 6th, 2006, 12:08 AM

I guess you can't be a practicing Saint, and a Pimp at the same time...

Any idea why they seem to be willing to include Hawpe in any trade? He's cheap, is among the League leaders in OF assists, and is developing his bat.

From what I see, Hawpe's numbers aren't all that different when compared to Jacque Jones, so why move the salary from SP (JJ) to RF, and the lower salary from RF (Hawpe) to Pitching (Malholm)? It seems to be a wash.

If it was JJ, Hawpe, and a top prospect, for Wells, then I could understand, but Jacque Jones, and Malholm, Marmol?

Heltonfan · December 6th, 2006, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockieprogress

From what I see, Hawpe's numbers aren't all that different when compared to Jacque Jones.

Huh? They're very different. Hawpe's numbers are much, much better. Which, of course, only makes the rumor more ridiculous.

indianadrew · December 6th, 2006, 11:12 AM

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/pl...ds%5B6246%5D=1

i dont know about much, much better. hawpe's stats are better, but they are not THAT much better. i have provided a link to the direct comparison. what it boils down to is hawpe is better than jones

Heltonfan · December 6th, 2006, 11:40 AM

Hawpe and Jones are pretty similar except for a 50-point difference in OBP. Which is to say, they're not similar at all. 50 points of OBP is 15-20 runs per year... that's a huge gap.

GoldGlove · December 6th, 2006, 12:18 PM

Looks like the Dodgers and Jason Schmidt are closing in a 3 year, $47 million deal. Why the Rangers wouldn't spend an extra $13 million over three years and upgrade from Padilla to Schmidt is beyond me. Too bad they didn't, because the Dodgers are now looking like they're going to be tough to beat.

rockieprogress · December 6th, 2006, 12:30 PM

HF, even though it theoretically factors to 15-20 runs, in Hawpe's case if factored to 6 less runs. Overall, pretty similar IMO, but I agree that a .050 increase in OPB is a lot to overcome.
If the team doesn't use their lineup correctly, and in Hawpe's case in particular I don't think they did, it negates a players ability to be productive. With Jones, maybe his speed (and 9SB's doesn't indicate he's greased lightning) compensates for some of the managers stupidity...

I doubt it.

December 6th, 2006, 11:12 AM	#42 (permalink)
indianadrew Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: indianapolis Posts: 698	http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/pl...ds%5B6246%5D=1 i dont know about much, much better. hawpe's stats are better, but they are not THAT much better. i have provided a link to the direct comparison. what it boils down to is hawpe is better than jones Last edited by indianadrew; December 6th, 2006 at 11:16 AM.

December 4th, 2006, 11:14 PM	#31 (permalink)
hoser Rookie Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 13	Steve Phillips of ESPN reported that the 3 team trade between Colorado, Chicago, and Pittsburgh would come down as follows... Chicago Cubs get Jason Jennings Pittsburgh Pirates get Brad Hawpe Colorado gets Paul Maholm, Carlos Marmol, Jacque Jones I don't like this deal for a couple reasons. I don't see Maholm or Marmol as being an upgrade to Jennings and Jones wouldn't be an upgrade to Hawpe. Basically, the Rockies would be giving up better talent for more bodies. This doesn't address the need for a starting centerfielder. If you're going to trade your #1 pitcher you better fill your biggest hole in the process. Jennings may not be a #1 on a lot of teams but he is on the Rockies. Proven starting pitching is at a premium this off season with lots of teams trying to fill a need. Jennings is a hot commodity and the Rockies should use it to their advantage to get a starting centerfielder and at least one young arm if not two. I'd pass on this deal if I were O'Dowd.

December 4th, 2006, 11:55 PM	#32 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,175	Thankfully Steve Phillips has a track record of being wrong on things like this. Maholm is ok, but is really the poor man's Jeff Francis. He's 4th starter material. Gorzelanny is the guy you want from the Pirates. Hawpe is better than Jacque Jones right now, and time is on his side. O'Dowd apparently thinks he can flip Jones elsewhere, but I'm not sure anyone really wants him. He was clearly a mistake signing, and that's why the Cubs already want to move him. Marmol is also nothing special. We can do better than this ... I'm all in favor of trading JJ rather than getting nothing for him when he walks a year from now, but you're certain to get better value for him in Spring or early summer.

December 5th, 2006, 07:22 AM	#33 (permalink)
Heltonfan Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Yerevan, Armenia Posts: 902	Wow, that's about as absurd a rumor as I've seen in a long time. It's comforting to see it coming from Steve Phillips rather than someone like Gammons or Rosenthal. No need to bother analyzing the idea in depth. Suffice it to say that I'd make the deal if it was Zach Duke coming our way instead of Maholm.

December 5th, 2006, 11:10 AM	#34 (permalink)
DieHardRoxFan Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 153	If O'Dowd can't come up with a better deal than this for Jennings and Hawpe he should be run out of town.

December 5th, 2006, 01:39 PM	#36 (permalink)
GerryInCS New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 635	Suppan at 10 mil? Padilla at 11 mil per. what the hell is the world coming to? Do baseball GMs enjoy overpaying for mediocrity? At least the Rox are doing it on the cheap.

December 5th, 2006, 03:34 PM	#37 (permalink)
TheIncredibleRox Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 322	Wow. I just discovered that Jeff Suppan is only 31, and I'm amazed. I swear he only gets 1 year older every 3 years or so. ML debut was in '95. Wow. I remember he and Jose Rosado were a pair of promising youngsters at the front of the KC rotation in the late 90's. Poor Jose. If I remember correctly, the consensus was Rosado was the more talented, higher-ceiling guy. Too bad Jose fell of the face of the Earth, and has to watch his buddy collect million after million.

December 5th, 2006, 06:59 PM	#38 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,175	Suppan used to throw very hard. Used to ... By the way, that "we made a 3 year/21 million offer to Suppan" thing is a bunch of crap. It's easy to make that kind of claim -- looking like a big spender, showing the fans you really are committed to improving next year -- when you know your ass will never have to pick up the check.

December 5th, 2006, 09:56 PM	#39 (permalink)
GoldGlove Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City Posts: 38	O'Dowd and Hurdle have denied the Jennings to Chicago, Hawpe to Pittsburgh rumors. As for the reasons why, my favorite quote comes from Hurdle: "We're not peddling flesh." Just let that one marinate for awhile...

December 6th, 2006, 12:08 AM	#40 (permalink)
rockieprogress Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: aurora Posts: 183	I guess you can't be a practicing Saint, and a Pimp at the same time... Any idea why they seem to be willing to include Hawpe in any trade? He's cheap, is among the League leaders in OF assists, and is developing his bat. From what I see, Hawpe's numbers aren't all that different when compared to Jacque Jones, so why move the salary from SP (JJ) to RF, and the lower salary from RF (Hawpe) to Pitching (Malholm)? It seems to be a wash. If it was JJ, Hawpe, and a top prospect, for Wells, then I could understand, but Jacque Jones, and Malholm, Marmol?

December 6th, 2006, 11:40 AM	#43 (permalink)
Heltonfan Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Yerevan, Armenia Posts: 902	Hawpe and Jones are pretty similar except for a 50-point difference in OBP. Which is to say, they're not similar at all. 50 points of OBP is 15-20 runs per year... that's a huge gap.

December 6th, 2006, 12:18 PM	#44 (permalink)
GoldGlove Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City Posts: 38	Looks like the Dodgers and Jason Schmidt are closing in a 3 year, $47 million deal. Why the Rangers wouldn't spend an extra $13 million over three years and upgrade from Padilla to Schmidt is beyond me. Too bad they didn't, because the Dodgers are now looking like they're going to be tough to beat.

December 6th, 2006, 12:30 PM	#45 (permalink)
rockieprogress Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: aurora Posts: 183	HF, even though it theoretically factors to 15-20 runs, in Hawpe's case if factored to 6 less runs. Overall, pretty similar IMO, but I agree that a .050 increase in OPB is a lot to overcome. If the team doesn't use their lineup correctly, and in Hawpe's case in particular I don't think they did, it negates a players ability to be productive. With Jones, maybe his speed (and 9SB's doesn't indicate he's greased lightning) compensates for some of the managers stupidity... I doubt it.