The lineup thread

wolf213 · 01-04-2007, 07:08 PM

I was playing around with the Lineup Analysis tool on baseball musings, entering the ZIPS projections for each of the Rockies Players, this is what it spit back out.

1. Willie Tavarez
2. Brad Hawpe
3. Matt Holliday
4. Troy Tulowitzki
5. Garrett Atkins
6. Kaz Matsui
7. Todd Helton
8. Chris Ianetta
9. Pitcher

hiaspire · 01-04-2007, 07:21 PM

And people don't like Hurdle's lineups. That's a pretty odd output. Wondering what it could be based upon to arrive at such conclusions by the numbers.

I'd probably go with something like this (assuming those same players)...

1. Willie Tavarez (speed at the top going to 2B without bunting)
2. Garrett Atkins (could switch 2/3 around - both make good contact and get on base)
3. Todd Helton (could switch 2/3 around but to me Helton is still more feared in key situations)
4. Matt Holliday
5. Brad Hawpe
6. Troy Tulowitzki
7. Chris Ianetta (could switch 6/7 around depending upon development)
8. Kaz Matsui (could switch 1/8 depending upon performance)
9. Pitcher

Roxpert · 01-04-2007, 07:30 PM

Lineups should have the best hitters closest to the top of the order. On that basis, here's mine....

1. Brad Hawpe (OBP superior to the "speed" guys)
2. Todd Helton (doubles power to score even the slower Hawpe at Coors)
3. Garrett Atkins (the purest young hitter we have)
4. Matt Holliday (the best power on an underpowered team)
5. Chris Iannetta (best OBP potential after top 4)
6. Troy Tulowitski (enough pop potential for this spot - .265/.330/.440?)
7. Kaz Matsui (depsite his good audition, not a good MLB hitter)
8. Willie Taveraz (in the "Matsui" class of hitters with even less pop)
9. Pitcher

BTW, I believe Hurdle must have been near the top of the league again in the number of different lineups used in 2006 (not counting the pitcher, of course).

rockieprogress · 01-04-2007, 08:39 PM

I think you guys have finally run out of things to write about.

Tulo at #4?
Hawpe leading off?

Taveras
Hawpe
Atkins
Holliday
Helton
Ianneta
Tulo
Matsui
Pitcher

If Tulo starts hot, I'd put him in the 2 hole, and move Hawpe to 5.
While I agree that Helton is still the most feared in pressure situations, he shouldn't be a #3 anymore IMO.

hiaspire · 01-04-2007, 10:10 PM

Some of those are very strange suggestions. You know what, though? I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to trying some of them if things didn't go well as planned and they had horrible table-setters otherwise. I don't think it is a crime to change the lineup around, and would highly suggest it instead of just hitting your head against a brick wall that isn't working.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockieprogress

While I agree that Helton is still the most feared in pressure situations, he shouldn't be a #3 anymore IMO.

I mentioned a 2/3 swap could be in order within my suggestion. Really depends a lot on how Helton bounces back from his difficult season last year with the health scare. I might be more optimistic than most, but I really think you'll see Helton more back to himself next season. If not, #2 would be a good spot with his OBP.

But I also am not going to assume that our youngsters are going to get better or even repeat their somewhat surprising results. Sophomore slumps happen. Before I crown Atkins over Helton, he needs to prove it a little more or Helton needs to prove he really can't do it any more. But I think it makes most sense that those guys are #2 and #3, whichever order depending upon how they are going during the season. They both will put the ball in play, get on base, can drive in runs, and can also create good situations for cleanup hitters below them.

I believe Hurdle will probably go with a more traditional move-the-guy-over #2 hitter much of the time (hopefully Taveras stealing a ton of bases will make that less necessary), but I have always liked Atkins there or Helton if he can't deliver the same punch.

I also wouldn't mind moving the heart of the run producers down if Tulo has a great season and proves he can produce at the top of the order (either #2 or #1). That might be where he (or Kaz if he hits as well) end up a lot of the time, but I think the lower part of the middle of the order probably suits him best with his aggressive approach.

They have some additional flexibility, but it really will be important to get more production from the top of the order next year. If Taveras remains here, I'm hoping he busts out in a big way with so much room for balls to find grass in the outfield and our infield grass raised for his many bunts and infield singles. He's blazing fast and can be a weapon for the way they have been trying to play but haven't had the personnel.

01-04-2007, 07:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
wolf213 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Thornton Co Posts: 189	The lineup thread I was playing around with the Lineup Analysis tool on baseball musings, entering the ZIPS projections for each of the Rockies Players, this is what it spit back out. 1. Willie Tavarez 2. Brad Hawpe 3. Matt Holliday 4. Troy Tulowitzki 5. Garrett Atkins 6. Kaz Matsui 7. Todd Helton 8. Chris Ianetta 9. Pitcher

01-04-2007, 07:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
hiaspire Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 479	And people don't like Hurdle's lineups. That's a pretty odd output. Wondering what it could be based upon to arrive at such conclusions by the numbers. I'd probably go with something like this (assuming those same players)... 1. Willie Tavarez (speed at the top going to 2B without bunting) 2. Garrett Atkins (could switch 2/3 around - both make good contact and get on base) 3. Todd Helton (could switch 2/3 around but to me Helton is still more feared in key situations) 4. Matt Holliday 5. Brad Hawpe 6. Troy Tulowitzki 7. Chris Ianetta (could switch 6/7 around depending upon development) 8. Kaz Matsui (could switch 1/8 depending upon performance) 9. Pitcher Last edited by hiaspire; 01-04-2007 at 07:23 PM.

01-04-2007, 07:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,010	Lineups should have the best hitters closest to the top of the order. On that basis, here's mine.... 1. Brad Hawpe (OBP superior to the "speed" guys) 2. Todd Helton (doubles power to score even the slower Hawpe at Coors) 3. Garrett Atkins (the purest young hitter we have) 4. Matt Holliday (the best power on an underpowered team) 5. Chris Iannetta (best OBP potential after top 4) 6. Troy Tulowitski (enough pop potential for this spot - .265/.330/.440?) 7. Kaz Matsui (depsite his good audition, not a good MLB hitter) 8. Willie Taveraz (in the "Matsui" class of hitters with even less pop) 9. Pitcher BTW, I believe Hurdle must have been near the top of the league again in the number of different lineups used in 2006 (not counting the pitcher, of course).

01-04-2007, 08:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
rockieprogress Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: aurora Posts: 183	I think you guys have finally run out of things to write about. Tulo at #4? Hawpe leading off? Taveras Hawpe Atkins Holliday Helton Ianneta Tulo Matsui Pitcher If Tulo starts hot, I'd put him in the 2 hole, and move Hawpe to 5. While I agree that Helton is still the most feared in pressure situations, he shouldn't be a #3 anymore IMO.