Garrett Atkins Rejects Offer

kfkorn · 12-11-2006, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Garrett Atkins rejected the Rockies' offer of a four-year deal with an option for 2011.

The option would cover his first year of free agency. Atkins was open to getting something done, but he has the potential to make a lot of money during his arbitration years. It will take more than a Jeff Francis-type deal for him to give that up.

Per Rotoworld:

Garrett Atkins-3B-Rockies

GerryInCS · 12-11-2006, 01:23 AM

Like JJ, his agent is looking for the overpriced payday.Thankfully the team has depth at 3B.

madness · 12-11-2006, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GerryInCS

Like JJ, his agent is looking for the overpriced payday.Thankfully the team has depth at 3B.

Until the Rockies make a realistic and fair market offer to any of these guys it is impossible to tell whether they are greedy and only care about money or whether are simply not idiots.

I still think that Atkins would have signed for something reasonable (based on a combination of recent similar contracts, past contracts for similar performance, etc.) but it is idiotic (and unfair) to expect players to provide a home town discount like Francis did.

When these guys start demanding MORE than fair market value just to stay then I will join in the mudslinging but until then the fault lies, IMO, with the Rockies.

GerryInCS · 12-11-2006, 04:02 AM

What's 'fair market'? Nearly every free agent signing this offseason has been ridiculously over-inflated. From Adam Eaton to Gil Meche to Alfonso Soriano, they are all being overpaid. Don't ask me why, because I have no fracking clue. However, it could because it's a down market talent-wise and so many teams are desperate to fill holes that they are literally grasping at straws.

Personally, I'd give Atkins a 5 year/$35-40 million deal and JJ a 4 year/40 million

Below C-Level · 12-11-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madness

Until the Rockies make a realistic and fair market offer to any of these guys it is impossible to tell whether they are greedy and only care about money or whether are simply not idiots.

I still think that Atkins would have signed for something reasonable (based on a combination of recent similar contracts, past contracts for similar performance, etc.) but it is idiotic (and unfair) to expect players to provide a home town discount like Francis did.

You seem to be implying that they have failed to do that here, but I don't think I've seen any terms mentioned. What was their first offer to Atkins?

This is a little bit more smoke than fire in the sense that he's not even arbitration eligible until next Winter. If he throws up another OPS of .950+ at 27 then he'll be in line for a healthy raise, but he'll be worth every dollar of it and I can't imagine the Rockies will have any problem paying him. If he wants a David Wright deal (5/$55 million) right now then perhaps it's better to let him play out this year anyway. He's still not going anywhere until 2011 and it's not like his value could go anywhere but down from there...

Rox Girl · 12-11-2006, 11:50 AM

First of all, Garrett was unequivocally the Rockies best player last season and should be rewarded for that. However, I think Atkins is looking for a David Wright deal without being a David Wright draw to the box office yet. I'm not saying he's a worse player, but I know for a fact that Wright brings more money to the Mets through tickets/merchandise sales than Garrett brings to the Rockies. If GA starts off hot, gets some All-Star buzz, and looks to be the player he was last season -in a spiky, possibly flukish year- then by all means we've got to up the offer and give him a Wright/Sweeney type of contract. I'm just worried that ownership A) won't do that when the time comes, or B) irrevocably screwed stuff up by spouting off about the negotiations to the media.

Sigh. Oh, and hi everybody. Glad you left the Evil Empire.

RockieRooter · 12-11-2006, 12:07 PM

Look at the Oakland A's. They've gotten where they've been by exploiting market inefficiencies. There's a tendency at all times, and it seems more so right now, to overpay to try and "win now". IMHO the Rox should take advantage when these situations arise. I'd love to see the same players stay together, grow together, and win together, but it isn't likely to happen in today's sports world. Every player is an individual. Some players will take a discount, putting more value on being able to play where they want to play than on getting the top dollar. Others will want to sample the market - and they have every right to. But when a quality player shows that they want to sample the market, then in a market like this, IMHO the Rox should trade them and add value to the system - rather than try and match what the market is doing. As the A's have shown, this is one of the keys to long term success and not necessarily a recipe for perpetual mediocrity.

That's also why I don't like the idea of joining the other side and trading high quality minor league players "because they're blocked". Unless, of course it's behind someone with a monster long term contract. So, to me, the talk of trading Stewart because he's "blocked" behind Atkins is wrong thinking. I like Atkins a lot (more than most when he first came up), but I think he's close to his peak. It's entirely possible that he will want to test the market when his time comes. If so, I think it would be very helpful to have a reasonable replacement in the wings. Even if Stewart is not as good as Atkins, then should the Rox need to trade Atkins they could concentrate on a match for their greatest needs. After all, if another team has a quality 3rd baseman in the wings, why would they pay an arm and a leg for Atkins?

The thing I see for 2007 and going forwards, is that the Rox should never again need to face a major hole on their roster - barring major injury. If they do, it's because of poor management - which should be suitably punished. If the Rox can't get a quality CF (significantly better than Sullivan), from a trade for Jennings, then I think they should just trade for maximum value and think about reasonable alternatives in CF. Next year, possibly it would be Atkins turn, and they could continue then. I see Holliday also leaving when his turn comes (think Boras), and so IMHO the Rox should also be on the lookout for a slugging OF with at least decent mobility in return as part of one of these deals.

Newman · 12-11-2006, 11:32 PM

I saw a comparison of David Wright numbers to Garrett Atkins and our boy came out on top, had better numbers last year.

I don't know why Francis, who I thought was supposed to be smart, took such a low payday extension, the hometown discount. That was dumb on his part.

If I were an agent of a Rockies player I would tell them to go to another team. You can get the same or more money elsewhere AND you actually have a chance to go to the playoffs.

Below C-Level · 12-12-2006, 12:30 AM

Yep. Our boy is also 27 years old. David Wright doesn't turn 24 until later this month.

Our boy also isn't nearly the defensive player that Wright is and he also plays 81 games a year at Coors Field, which was the second best offensive park in baseball last year. David Wright, on the other hand, played half his games in the 5th worst offensive park in baseball.

As a result, just looking at the numbers (.329/.409/.556/.965 for Atkins and .311/.381/.531/.912 for Wright) doesn't tell you much more than that they can both rake.

By the way, this is the second thread on which you've called Francis "dumb" for taking the contract extension. So, just to clarify, the front office is "dumb" when they don't go out and overspend on player contracts and the players are "dumb" when they sign contracts that are at or (gasp) below market rates? Sounds like there isn't much anyone can do that would meet with your approval, is there?

Rox Girl · 12-12-2006, 03:38 AM

But David Wright's defense is just as terrible as Garrett Atkins'. Ugly, ugly defense from either one of them.

Below C-Level · 12-12-2006, 10:50 AM

What makes you say that Wright's defense is poor, Rox Girl? From everything I've seen, both in terms of statistical metrics and anectdotal visual evidence, Wright is already very good defensively and he has the potential to be an elite defensive player at the position. I'm not sure I would say the same about Atkins.

Neither of them is Ryan Zimmerman, but then Ryan Zimmerman can't hit like they can.

Rox Girl · 12-12-2006, 01:44 PM

In 2007. I definitely overstated when I said he was terrible and probably going too much on reputation. Wright's just below average. Well, at least he's below average according to Probabilistic Model of Range, which is my favorite defensive stat (check out how Cory Sullivan slides down the CF list compared to how other stats rank him). I think most objective Mets fans would agree that Wright has his flaws. I don't know if he's going to get better, though. He's got a big frame, and he's only going to get slower as he ages. Atkins is near the bottom of this list of course, and the number of outs his defense cost us added up over the course of the season.

12-11-2006, 11:50 AM	#6 (permalink)
Rox Girl Rookie Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 11	I agree with C-Level here, somewhat First of all, Garrett was unequivocally the Rockies best player last season and should be rewarded for that. However, I think Atkins is looking for a David Wright deal without being a David Wright draw to the box office yet. I'm not saying he's a worse player, but I know for a fact that Wright brings more money to the Mets through tickets/merchandise sales than Garrett brings to the Rockies. If GA starts off hot, gets some All-Star buzz, and looks to be the player he was last season -in a spiky, possibly flukish year- then by all means we've got to up the offer and give him a Wright/Sweeney type of contract. I'm just worried that ownership A) won't do that when the time comes, or B) irrevocably screwed stuff up by spouting off about the negotiations to the media. Sigh. Oh, and hi everybody. Glad you left the Evil Empire. __________________ Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic.

12-11-2006, 12:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
RockieRooter Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 62	Future strategy Look at the Oakland A's. They've gotten where they've been by exploiting market inefficiencies. There's a tendency at all times, and it seems more so right now, to overpay to try and "win now". IMHO the Rox should take advantage when these situations arise. I'd love to see the same players stay together, grow together, and win together, but it isn't likely to happen in today's sports world. Every player is an individual. Some players will take a discount, putting more value on being able to play where they want to play than on getting the top dollar. Others will want to sample the market - and they have every right to. But when a quality player shows that they want to sample the market, then in a market like this, IMHO the Rox should trade them and add value to the system - rather than try and match what the market is doing. As the A's have shown, this is one of the keys to long term success and not necessarily a recipe for perpetual mediocrity. That's also why I don't like the idea of joining the other side and trading high quality minor league players "because they're blocked". Unless, of course it's behind someone with a monster long term contract. So, to me, the talk of trading Stewart because he's "blocked" behind Atkins is wrong thinking. I like Atkins a lot (more than most when he first came up), but I think he's close to his peak. It's entirely possible that he will want to test the market when his time comes. If so, I think it would be very helpful to have a reasonable replacement in the wings. Even if Stewart is not as good as Atkins, then should the Rox need to trade Atkins they could concentrate on a match for their greatest needs. After all, if another team has a quality 3rd baseman in the wings, why would they pay an arm and a leg for Atkins? The thing I see for 2007 and going forwards, is that the Rox should never again need to face a major hole on their roster - barring major injury. If they do, it's because of poor management - which should be suitably punished. If the Rox can't get a quality CF (significantly better than Sullivan), from a trade for Jennings, then I think they should just trade for maximum value and think about reasonable alternatives in CF. Next year, possibly it would be Atkins turn, and they could continue then. I see Holliday also leaving when his turn comes (think Boras), and so IMHO the Rox should also be on the lookout for a slugging OF with at least decent mobility in return as part of one of these deals.

12-12-2006, 12:30 AM	#9 (permalink)
Below C-Level Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 55	Yep. Our boy is also 27 years old. David Wright doesn't turn 24 until later this month. Our boy also isn't nearly the defensive player that Wright is and he also plays 81 games a year at Coors Field, which was the second best offensive park in baseball last year. David Wright, on the other hand, played half his games in the 5th worst offensive park in baseball. As a result, just looking at the numbers (.329/.409/.556/.965 for Atkins and .311/.381/.531/.912 for Wright) doesn't tell you much more than that they can both rake. By the way, this is the second thread on which you've called Francis "dumb" for taking the contract extension. So, just to clarify, the front office is "dumb" when they don't go out and overspend on player contracts and the players are "dumb" when they sign contracts that are at or (gasp) below market rates? Sounds like there isn't much anyone can do that would meet with your approval, is there? Last edited by Below C-Level; 12-12-2006 at 12:37 AM.

12-12-2006, 03:38 AM	#10 (permalink)
Rox Girl Rookie Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 11	C-Level, the rest of your points are strong But David Wright's defense is just as terrible as Garrett Atkins'. Ugly, ugly defense from either one of them. __________________ Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic.

12-12-2006, 01:44 PM	#12 (permalink)
Rox Girl Rookie Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 11	Yep, you're right, he was better than Atkins In 2007. I definitely overstated when I said he was terrible and probably going too much on reputation. Wright's just below average. Well, at least he's below average according to Probabilistic Model of Range, which is my favorite defensive stat (check out how Cory Sullivan slides down the CF list compared to how other stats rank him). I think most objective Mets fans would agree that Wright has his flaws. I don't know if he's going to get better, though. He's got a big frame, and he's only going to get slower as he ages. Atkins is near the bottom of this list of course, and the number of outs his defense cost us added up over the course of the season. __________________ Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic.

12-11-2006, 01:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
GerryInCS Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 627	Like JJ, his agent is looking for the overpriced payday.Thankfully the team has depth at 3B.

12-11-2006, 04:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
GerryInCS Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 627	What's 'fair market'? Nearly every free agent signing this offseason has been ridiculously over-inflated. From Adam Eaton to Gil Meche to Alfonso Soriano, they are all being overpaid. Don't ask me why, because I have no fracking clue. However, it could because it's a down market talent-wise and so many teams are desperate to fill holes that they are literally grasping at straws. Personally, I'd give Atkins a 5 year/$35-40 million deal and JJ a 4 year/40 million

12-11-2006, 11:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
Newman Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Aurora Posts: 526	I saw a comparison of David Wright numbers to Garrett Atkins and our boy came out on top, had better numbers last year. I don't know why Francis, who I thought was supposed to be smart, took such a low payday extension, the hometown discount. That was dumb on his part. If I were an agent of a Rockies player I would tell them to go to another team. You can get the same or more money elsewhere AND you actually have a chance to go to the playoffs.

12-12-2006, 10:50 AM	#11 (permalink)
Below C-Level Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 55	What makes you say that Wright's defense is poor, Rox Girl? From everything I've seen, both in terms of statistical metrics and anectdotal visual evidence, Wright is already very good defensively and he has the potential to be an elite defensive player at the position. I'm not sure I would say the same about Atkins. Neither of them is Ryan Zimmerman, but then Ryan Zimmerman can't hit like they can.