random off-topic thread

[Roxpert]

Please stop with the Michelle Obama baloney. This has long since been debunked as an "out-of-context" assault on her patriotism. When she did say "for the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country", it was in the context of citizen activism on behalf of her husband's campaign. And in that regard, she was RIGHT to say that she was proud of America's new grassroots energy that resulted in Obama's nomination.

So, Michelle's comment shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Todd Palin's REAL anti-Americanism. And Sarah? She did a welcoming video to the AIP convention this year, saying "Keep up to good work". A top AIP official also says she attended the 1994 convention with her husband. I'm fairly convinced she's a separatist, or shares their sentiments, and in fact may have been an AIP member herself at one time, though that hasn't been confirmed.

Now, why haven't you seen THIS played over and over again on Faux News?....

Joe Vogler, founder of the Alaskan Independence Party:

"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

"... the fires of Hell are glaciers compared to my HATE for the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT, and I won't be buried under their DAMN FLAG. ..."

Political Punch

YouTube - Sarah Palin and the Alaska Independence Party. Palin addresses AIP convention

[BigRapidsJackass]

Roxpert, you know what you're gonna get if someone (Biden?) raises the Alaska separatist thing:

"How dare you, Gov. Palin's son is shipping off to Iraq to defend the United States of America and you're accusing his mother of being unpatriotic?"

Back to the subprime mess: I had, like most Americans, started to relax a bit, thinking the worst fallout was over. Now I (like most Americans, if the markets are to be believed) am not so sure. A really horrific collapse of our financial sector is still a possibility.

But no, our presidential candidates are gonna talk about "school choice" and abortion and purely state matters instead. The next President is going to have to deal with this mess -- his Treasury Secretary, his FDIC/CFTC/SEC appointees, and yeah, even the President himself. What do they propose to do? Just let Bernanke make all key decisions? How much of a federal-govt bailout is necessary to prevent collapse? How much is too much, saving investors (like those in Bear Stearns) from the consequences of extraordinarily risky investment portfolios and creating a future "moral hazard?" These are big questions.

Barack, you're smart, and a teacher to wit: c'mon, explain it to Americans in terms they can understand, give us a real plan, and the Presidency is yours. Take the Republican-strategist bait and get distracted from the real issues, and the Presidency will belong to the man who "doesn't really understand" this economics stuff ...

[Roxpert]

Jackass, I agree with you on the mortgage meltdown and credit collapse. This has a real chance of destroying the economy, and we haven't seen the worst of it yet. I highly recommend John Mauldin's work. He has a free e-letter that explains it all this week at....

Thoughts from the Frontline

The trouble is that explaining it in the soundbite-driven MSM is next to impossible, which is why you've seen very little discussion of it by the candidates. Hopefully, it does come up and gets some airtime at the October 15th debate, which is going to be devoted solely to the economy.

[TheIncredibleRox]

Jackass, if I'm not mistaken, McCain seemed (to me at least) to be supporting vouchers in re: education. Which is a very libertarian idea, which would (by far) reduce the education budget.

[Roxpert]

but if proven true, Palin's a racist and needs to resign:

Alaskans Speak (In A Frightened Whisper): Palin Is “Racist, Sexist, Vindictive, And Mean.” | The LA Progressive

[RMF]

As I said previously I've been leaning towards Obama.

(Hopefully everyone got the Palin joke)
She's terrifying, Almost as terrifying to me is that I have absolutely no idea which political group if any to support. George W Bush was just a complete disaster.

I liked John McCain untill he did the deal with the devil. That my friends is not putting your country first. Someone who wanted to put their country first would have fought George W tooth and nail every step of the way.

There is no way in hell that I'm putting this country in the hands of an Alaska mayor. No matter how "captivating she may be."

I hate the fact that every election the republicans get away with turning absolute non-issues into election center pieces. Last time it was freaking Gay Marriage.

Individually I'm against Gay marriage. I don't like it, I don't agree with it I wouldn't support it. However, I also am very dissapointed that people decided to make it a large part of our last presidential election. It's a social issue and shouldn't be legislated. IMO same goes for Abortion. These things need to be turned over to the states. This country would be so much better if we would allow greater diversity.

IMO the economy wasn't that great 4 years ago. The W administration used a bunch of silly string and masking tape to hold it together. They killed the dollar and rightfully so but they also made it a sacrificial lamb. What W didn't do was stop spending and he sure didn't stop crooks sending their $ overseas and waiting for middle americans to bail them out again.

Officially, wealthier americans pay higher taxes in this country. However, I would argue that corporate America punishes poor and uneducated Americans at an oppressing rate. They do this under the guise of capitalism. Oh it's true that each individual good and service only tacks on a few percent here or a few percent there. But add it up!

Poorer Americans pay a higher rate for almost every kind of good & service. They bower at higher rates of money. They pay more for worse insurance. Incrimentally they pay more for almost every single thing.

It's not like this is a secret. In fact Corporate america has always known about this. We even spend tons of money to exploit our fellow human beings.

Frankly I think its discusting. IMO the most fundamental thing about Judeo Christian ethics is the idea of social equality. It's an idea that is clearly supported in the Old testament. IMO its the single greatest teaching of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Do not intentionally discrace those who are disadvantaged. And that is why I hate the republican party even though if I had to use one word to describe myself it would probably be some conjunction of Libertarian-Conservative maybe I'd be a Conservatarian.

The question isn't whether these contracts are "legal" the question is whether it's right. And if you ask me the Moral Majority is actually a quagmire of people who intentionally oppress and those who don't realize what's going on.

So why am I not a democrat? Well they have their own problems. If they would kick their extreme elements out of the party and establish a party that isn't so inclusive. Then we might have something. However, I think it would only take about 20 years for them to turn into our current republicans. They'll have their own abusive laws and ridiculous policies.

Let Freedom Ring!

It's time for a Left Term I hate putting the houses and Executive branch in the hands of the Democrats but the Republicans need their empires checked. Hopefully Obama will kick some ass!

Republicans are really just fat cats who hide their anti competitive desires behind words ideas like free markets, trade and capitalism.

What happens to a society when you run out of $$$ and the people have nothing left? We are about to find out.

I will have to vote for Obama, the status quo is just unacceptable. I wish his policies were better.

[RMF]

Roxpert that was garbage. Surely we can dislike Palin for other reasons than Sambo and the Biatch comments.

Which if true are great. It's great because we should be allowed to say things that aren't politically correct. IMO some things are funny. In her situation as a democratic hater I don't have a problems with that.

However, IMO there are Student Council Presidents out there with more executive experience and better records of reform.

This person is from freaking Alaska.

When she was young I probably would have tried to get on that. Maybe she would still qualify as a MILF.

But she's not going to be my president. I wouldn't have voted for Hillary. I would have voted for Billary.

[Roxpert]

Ahh, you can't believe everything you read. Of course, many things we KNOW about Palin are UNacceptable, so we don't have to go into the gutter to disqualify her in our minds. Thought it was a bit entertaining, though, so I that's why I posted the link.

I am so sick and tired of labels. Everyone tries to label themselves or other people. Liberal, conservative, libertarian, and now we know a new word - Conservatarian.

Western cultures like to categorize or label things. Eastern or Asian cultures like to look at things in terms of relationships. Ask any American which of the following three items don't belong with the other two: Cow, chicken, hay. Most would say hay doesn't belong with the two animals. Ask any Asian the same question: Almost all would say the chicken doesn't belong with the Cow and hay because cows eat hay. I tried this with my wife, and it worked (she's Chinese).

American culture is largely simplistic and superficial in this era. Dumbed down by pop culture and television, and not adequately educated. That's why we have the leaders we deserve. A McCain win wouldn't surprise me in the least. Hopeful for Obama, but since the GOP has owned the White house for 28 of the past 40 years, I don't see why I should be all that optimistic. I think it could very well be 32 of 44 years in 2012.

[RMF]

Damn I must be asian. Good to know. This explains so much! Great stuff.

[BigRapidsJackass]

Roxpert, that LA Progressive (whatever that is) thing about Palin making racist comments is about as unreliable a "report" as you'll ever see. An unidentified waitress heard her say it?

I actually don't like the lefty attempts to dredge up scandals on her -- it gives the McCain campaign a good opportunity to start calling it a witch hunt. As I've noted, there's plenty of troubling, proven, true, admitted stuff about Palin's past. Stick to that.

Jackass, if I'm not mistaken, McCain seemed (to me at least) to be supporting vouchers in re: education. Which is a very libertarian idea, which would (by far) reduce the education budget.

Vouchers absolutely are a libertarian idea, and I like them. But since McCain seems to be promoting a federal government voucher system (and if he's not, then precisely what is he talking about?), this runs afoul of a different principle: the principle of federalism and of a federal government of limited powers. Leave this stuff to that states. That's a core Republican principle -- at least it used to be a core Republican principle. I'm not really sure there is such a thing as a core Republican principle anymore.

[Roxpert]

Jackass, I think some on the left are trying to seek revenge for what they see as similar treatment of Obama by the righties these last several months, starting with Rev. Wright, Michelle's "proud" comment, his "bitter" comment making him into some sort of "elitist", the Rezko thing, and (most absurdly) the loose association with William Ayers. Face it - these faux scandals are what make our politics so counterproductive, but I don't really blame the left for wanting to give the right a little taste of their own (smearing) medicine.

On the merits, when push comes to shove, I just can't see any thinking voters wanting to put Palin a heartbeat away from the presidency. Obama has so much more depth of knowledge, educational background, expertise of the constitution, and ability to repair our relations with the rest of the world, that any comparison of him to Palin is just a joke.

But I'll make one comparison. Palin's speech at the RNC was written for her by Bush's former speechwriter. She gave it well, and was obviously well-rehearsed to give the lines with the right body language and tonal inflections. She performed well with the speech she was given, though I find her voice to be a bit grating. Obama, on the other hand, gave a transformative speech and beat all expectations at Invesco Field. But it wasn't written for him. Obama wrote the speech himself the prior weekend, as he does with all his major speeches. When he speaks, we are hearing HIS thoughts. When Palin speaks......who knows. The same goes for McCain.

Anyone who can't see or sense Obama's sheer brilliance and how he's politics' version of "The Natural", just isn't looking or opening their minds. Actually, a better baseball analogy for Obama is that he is the "Jackie Robinson" of politics. I really appreciate the courage of this man to do what he has done under obvious daily death threats to him and his wife/family. You know that's what has happened, and yet he doesn't flinch. Neither does Michelle. They are just great people and role models for so much of America, which is why he has gotten the following he has.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by TheIncredibleRox

Jackass, if I'm not mistaken, McCain seemed (to me at least) to be supporting vouchers in re: education. Which is a very libertarian idea, which would (by far) reduce the education budget.

Drew, do you get credit for starting this great thread? Props to you.

Vouchers. This is the Republican answer to everything - privatize it! The public school system isn't working so well? Scrap it. Privatize it?


How do you EVER know where McCain (the Maverick - what a media creation that label is when he votes 90% of the time with Bush)...stands on an issue. He has flip flopped on just about everything from torture to attacking the far right wing Evangelicals to Bush's permanent tax cuts only for the very wealthy.

Bush speech writers wrote Palin's speech. Do the Undecideds know that or care about that? I love that McCain is trying to win this election now on the CHANGE theme! They use the same speech writers. They have the same philosophy which has sent our great country into the toilet. He has been in Washington for 25 years. He IS the ESTABLISHMENT. Voting for McCain is STAYING THE COURSE!

[indianadrew]

i dont know newman, but it is sure nice to have roxpert back! doesn't it seem that the room is WAY more active with him here?

my son goes to public school, as will my daughter when she is old enough. a kid will succeed in any school system if he/she has parents that take an active role. privatizing it is not going to change much, unless parents step up and take part.

how is your son doing newman?

[Newman]

Yes I think you got this started by talking about brewing some pumpkin lager, around Thanksgiving time. Who knew it would morph into a discussion about current events and political philosophies and the fate of our nation and the world.

Definitely is great to see Roxpert back. He energizes the room.

My older son is fine, about to get married, and to make a career in the Marines. He's in Camp LeJeune right now.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac collapsed over the weekend. I don't pretend to understand this high finance stuff but it certainly can't be good. This all happened under Bush's mismanagement, his eight year tenure as the head of our country. McCain is the same, MORE OF THE SAME. The choice is clear. Will America make the correct choice? We shall see.

I guess Mrs. Palin will allow herself to be interviewed by Charlie Gibson next week. Very kind of the Republicans to let us get to know the possible future Vice President. I hope Charlie asks some good questions.

[Roxpert]

Charlie Gibson asking good questions? I wouldn't hold my breath. He's the one who moderated that faux-debate during the primaries that focused on lapel pins and the capital gains tax hike that Gibson so fears. He's the ultimate "corporate media shill". I wouldn't be surprised if ABC shares the questions to be asked of Palin days in advance to help her prepare.

Sorry to be so cynical, but the MSM seems fairly smitten by Sarah right now, totally at odds with what we read in the blogosphere. The tough questions probably won't get asked. Even the easy questions I'd like to see asked, such as "Who is the preident of Russia?" (not Putin), or "who is the prime minister of Great Britain" may not come up.

The future of our planet may rest with Joe Biden in early October. That's pressure.