random off-topic thread

[Roxpert]

Originally Posted by indianadrew

how am i pasting anything out of context?

You pieced together three different parts of HF's paragraph that were not originally connected. Thus, you formed a different sentence that is not in the context that Heltonfan originally intended.

As to your idea that government should protect the majority against the tyranny of the minorities, that's just plain backwards and wrong. What do you think the Bill of Rights was intended to do? If you look up history of the account, you'll see that the framers intended to place protections for those not in the majority. Yes, in a democracy, majority rules. But in our society, the majority is not allowed to trample over the rights of the minority.

You see, the majority doesn't require those special protections. They are in power (in theory), and control the pursestrings and the crafting of laws.

Saying that government is not to fulfill the function of protecting minorities against the tyranny of the majority is like saying that America was founded as a "Christian nation". This is believed by 56% of Americans in a recent poll, but is absolutely wrong. Look up the words of Jefferson and Adams and you'll see it was the opposite.

Our country's people need a good lesson or two in civics.

where did i say the laws were hateful? i think they had good intentions, as i posted above.

Where did I say you said that?

[indianadrew]

You pieced together three different parts of HF's paragraph that were not originally connected. Thus, you formed a different sentence that is not in the context that Heltonfan originally intended.

i know what out of context means roxpert. i pasted nothing out of context.

[indianadrew]

Originally Posted by Roxpert

Our country's people need a good lesson or two in civics.

bravo roxpert. that pretty much sums it all up right there doesn't it.

[TheIncredibleRox]

Ever get the feeling we've done more substantive things by having these political discussions in the last 48 hours than Congress has altogether during the same time?

U.S. House congratulates Rockies : Rockies : The Rocky Mountain News

AND we did that during the same time, too.

[indianadrew]

do you guys have any snow?

thinking minorities NEED to be helped, based solely on their minority status, is racist. isn't it?

[indianadrew]

Originally Posted by TheIncredibleRox

Ever get the feeling we've done more substantive things by having these political discussions in the last 48 hours than Congress has altogether during the same time?

U.S. House congratulates Rockies : Rockies : The Rocky Mountain News

AND we did that during the same time, too.

yeah, i get bored at my job too. i usually just shoot rubberbands at people.

[Newman]

What do you righties think about the war in Iraq now? Soon we will be heading into the 6th year of this debacle. This is a perpetual war with no goal, no end in sight. For what? Why?

We were attacked by Osama bin laden. Bush's answer was to attack Saddam Hussein. Does that make sense now as we look back on things? Aren't you righties furious that Bush never seriously went after Osama. Why doesn't that make you mad? I don't get it.

This war...errrrrrrrr occupation of a foreign country that did not attack us.

We are there for what reason? NO WMD. Alan Greenspan said we were there for the oil. Why would HE lie?

So now we are there, and there is no goal. This is a perpetual war for what reason? I have a son over there in the Marines. His choice. If he gets killed over there what did he die for? He died so Halliburton can continue to reap tremendous war profits? Is that a reason to die?

This war is now longer than WWII.

Do you righties believe that we should occupy foreign countries and take their natural resources? Might makes right? We are the bullies of the world now?

This is NOT the America I grew up with and learned about in my history books. We are acting like an aggressive imperialistic nation. We are acting like old England, collecting colonies. And every one of the major white Republican Male candidates for President supports Bush and this war!

Explain that to me, righties.

Shall we colonize Venezuela next? Take their oil?

[Roxpert]

Nice rant, Newman. I would guess you will get replies saying that you don't understand the nature of our Islamofascist enemies. You see, we liberals (as if liberals are the only opponents of this war) aren't tough enough with the brutal and evil cultures of the Middle East. Venezuela isn't next. It'll be Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and the rest. That is the vision of the Neocon ideology - Destroy their culture and implant democracies over there before they destroy us. It's fear-mongering of the worst sort.

But wtfdik - After all, we are the modern-day "Nevel Chamberlains"! Ugh.

[TheIncredibleRox]

This is a perpetual war with no goal, no end in sight.

There's certainly an end in sight. The last 8 months have drawn us a lot closer to it. The end occurs when Iraq has enough of a military/police force to sustain their own security. They're getting quite close. And the relative peace in Iraq right now facilitates that to happen. The other side of the coin is political reconciliation. Conditions are fertile for that right now as well.

For what? Why?

To execute what our formal foreign policy has been since under Clinton; regime change in Iraq. The reason? There was more than ample reason to believe that he had weapons of mass destruction (if you think Bush manipulated our intelligence, did he also manipulate M16? Russia? They came to the same conclusions), and given his material support for terrorists, that was not a nexus we could sleep on. Material support for terrorism on a national level, a willingness to bomb your own citizenry (let alone other nations) with chemical weapons, an expansionist foreign policy, invading 4 of your neighbors within the last 20 years, repeated stated desire to attack/harm Americans. Those were Clinton's and Bush's reasons for advocating regime change in Iraq.

NO WMD.

Thats not entirely true. WMD were found, as well as many necessary elements to create them. Just not to the scale we believed. There are very good reasons for this, none of them having to do with Bush (or any of the other foreign intelligence services) lying.

Alan Greenspan said we were there for the oil. Why would HE lie?

Like any fine American; to sell books. Notice he never 'came out' with that before his book tour?

If he gets killed over there what did he die for? He died so Halliburton can continue to reap tremendous war profits? Is that a reason to die?

As I've said before, I'll keep your son in my prayers and wish him the best. I hope he returns safely. Quick question, out of curiousity... does he support the cause? Its unrelated, I'd just want to know...

Anyway, the notion that we're in this war for oil is ludicrous. You can't make the argument that it's been in our interests on a national economic level; the economic impact of securing that oil couldn't pay for 1/20th of what we've spent. And did anybody truly think that invading Iraq would make the oil flow more stable in the near term?

But that's not the case you're making; you're advocating the notion that Bush/Cheney dragged us into the more for the benefit of Halliburton and crony companies. Okay. Let's run with that for a second. Bush started a war with a nation who he knew posed no threat to American interests, knowing full well it would cost enormous amounts of American taxpayer capital, hundreds to thousands of American lives, at least tens of thousands of lives of Iraqi civilians, and quite possibly tarnish our world image, all so his insanely rich friends could get a little bit insanely richer? Thats just an incredibly deranged belief; you'd have to believe Bush makes Satan look like a lap dog. If you believe that, thats okay, you're entitled to. But it's such a fantastical belief that it's ridiculous.

[Roxpert]

Now, in return for this list of recommeded reading, I invite our right-wing friends to give us some recommendations of their own.....

Amazon.com: The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism: Books: Naomi Klein

Amazon.com: The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot: Books: Naomi Wolf

Amazon.com: Confessions of an Economic Hit Man: Books: John Perkins

Amazon.com: Cracking the Code: How to Win Hearts, Change Minds, and Restore America's Original Vision: Books: Thom Hartmann

[Roxpert]

Originally Posted by TheIncredibleRox

There's certainly an end in sight. The last 8 months have drawn us a lot closer to it. The end occurs when Iraq has enough of a military/police force to sustain their own security. They're getting quite close. And the relative peace in Iraq right now facilitates that to happen. The other side of the coin is political reconciliation. Conditions are fertile for that right now as well.

I'm not going to try to debate you here as we've been there, done that. All I can say is.....

"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"* (no, really, this has to be it, right? This time it's real! Almost??)






*propaganda can be so effective.

[indianadrew]

Bob Kravitz | IndyStar.com

is this the same bob kravitz that was a sports columnist in denver?

[Roxpert]

it's the same Bob Kravitz. He was always an enjoyable read in the RMN.

[indianadrew]

we have him here and he is starting a 3 hour local radio show.

[TheIncredibleRox]

"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"* (no, really, this has to be it, right? This time it's real! Almost??)

A) He never said those words, it was a banner the ship put up which he didn't authorize. B) Even if he did, the mission was accomplished. The resolution passed under Clinton and the new resolution passed under Bush had been satisfied.