random off-topic thread

[Newman]

I had a college deferment to keep me out of Vietnam. I tried to get a Conscientous Objector status , but was denied. I knew I didn't want to die in that war, when I was your age, to die for nothing, for no good reason. Then I got a high enough lottery number and beat the draft that way.

It's the same in Iraq now. What are our men dying there for now? They are dying in vain, Incredible. If my son dies over there in the sandbox he will have died for nothing or he will have died because we have the worst president in American history.

In Vietnam it was "the commies are coming". FEAR. This war was sold as "the radical islamists are coming". Play the fear card. Sell the war to the American people.

Those people have been fighting amongst themselves for 1600 years (Sunni v Shia). We're going to stop that? I don't think so.

And the Persians, the Iranians, have been fighting with the Iraqis for a long time too. Let them fight amongst themselves. Why should we be there, fighting and dying over there, for what???

Do you see this as a religious crusade, Incredible? Should we go over there and kill all Muslims? Maybe you should join and be consistent with your beliefs.

What is our mission over there?

1. A Crusade.
2. Nation Building
3. Oil profits
4. War profits
5. Be targets of IEDs as we patrol streets in a foreign occupation.

Why are we fighting there, Incredible? They have a democratically elected Shia government. They are the cradle of civilization. They invented math. They are smart. They can run their own country.

This is the 5th year of a war with no clear mission. Let's redeploy, get out, and let them run their own mess.

Pssssssssss! Everyone knows Osama bin laden is on the Pakistan/Afghan border and not in Iraq.

[Roxpert]

Originally Posted by TheIncredibleRox

Conservatives don't serve? 45% of our troops consider themselves either 'conservative' or 'very conservative'--liberal/very liberal? Only 9%. 37% considered themselves moderate.

As long as you're quoting survey statistics, you may realize what Senator Webb of Virginia recently pointed out on Meet The Press. He pointed out that soldliers serving in Iraq question this country's policy and are against the War at the same percentage rate as the greater population. I don't have the details or backups of these findings, but will look for them later at home. In any event, it's striking that self-described "conservatives" would be just as "anti-war" as average Americans.

Enlistees probably don't fairly reflect the population as a whole, given the probability of more coming from lower socio-economic family backgrounds than the general populace. This is an outgrowth of "self-selection", in that those choosing to enlist do so for monetary assitance and future economic opportunity.....possibly even for a military career. People with limited opportunites would naturally be more attracted to the benefits of enlistment.

Others, such as possibly you TIR, would enlist because it's a family tradition.

Were you in Vietnam, Newman? I know Roxpert was not.

Correct. I was anti-war very early, taking up class time in my 8th grade English class debating the Vietnam War with the teacher, who was a very prim and proper Republican. The year was 1968.

I also had a high lottery number, thankfully, in late 1971 when I turned 18. No way would I have served in that immoral war if drafted.

By the way, I don't measure anyone's "patriotism" based on whether or not they actually served in the military. That would be silly, but I applaud those who choose to serve their country. TIR, I hope you decide to do it. The military needs "true believers" over in Iraq to enthusiasticallly carry out the mission. One must wonder how many serving 3rd and 4th tours of duty are still excited about being there. I do know that many voluntarily go back to Iraq, even after injured. Same thing happened in 'Nam. People have a natural desire to protect and be around their buddies, and not leave them behind. It has NOTHING to do with their "belief in the cause", in most cases.

[Newman]

Are you really "serving" your country in a war like this, like this war in Iraq, by the occupation of Iraq?

I think there is a correlation between doing what you say and saying what you do. If the Incredible truly believes that the mission in Iraq is worth fighting, MUST BE FOUGHT, and he is of fighting age, then he should follow through, and join, and fight for what he believes in.

I'd like to know how his killing some "Muslim insurgent" in Qaim Iraq makes me safer in Aurora Colorado. I would love to hear that explained.

Also if we don't fight them in Haditha then we will be fighting them in Hartford Connecticut? That one eludes me as well.

[indianadrew]

if we spent 1/10th the money that we are spending in iraq on our own country we would be able to eliminate so many of our own internal problems. i was a supporter of this war in iraq at one time. i am no longer. you do not throw good money after bad. i do still however support our troops. newman, god bless and protect your son. how does he feel about going?

my son, and oldest child, is 5. i have a 3yr old daughter as well. my wife and i registered him for kindergarten the other day. i have to admit that i was very emotional while we were at his school. this is my little guy growing up. i can only imagine if every milestone in his life is going to be a very emotional time in my life as well. they really grow up so quickly.

this war is wrong. bring our troops home now so they can defend our borders and hopefully prevent the next 9-11.

[Newman]

Like that steam pipe explosion in NYC last week, from an underground system that was built in l924. Why can't we use the $1.5B that we waste every week in Iraq to improve our aging infrastructure right here at home?!

Bumper sticker phrases elude me. How are we supporting our troops if we keep them in a no win war, a war that has now turned into a foreign occupation?

I agree with you Drew. If we want to support our troops we should bring them home! Makes more sense to put them on our southern border, to try to keep illegal immigrants from crossing over, providing cheap labor for the multinational corporations, and thereby destroying the American middle class.

But Bush is in bed with the mutlinationals. He looks the other way. He will do nothing. And the Dems have no program as well (but they are still the better choice).

Well my son is 31. He chose to go. If you ever watch anything about Marines, like the 2 hour special I just watched from PBS, you get the idea that it's all about comradery, having your fellow Marine's back, and so forth. Not so much about the mission. Don't think about the mission. Follow orders. Achieve. Do. Win.

Frankly I think my son needs mental health counseling. Me, I would want to know what the mission was. Why are we there? What are we trying to do? Is it achieveable?

Bush was right once. Mission was accomplished when he stood on deck of the aircraft carrier lo these many years ago. What's the mission now? Nation building? Marines can't do that. Not their job. They are trained to kill not trained to teach about James Madison, in Arabic.

Hey, Drew, if you don't get emotional about these benchmarks of your kids, well, then when do you? Life does go by so fast. Enjoy and celebrate the moments :>)

Comradery can be had in other ways, besides joining the military. I got mine thru my softball team. Nobody was killed. We had 30 years of fun, competition, working together for a common goal, comraderie. It was great!

[Newman]

I wonder if Barry Bonds regrets his decision to take steroids now. Or does he have introspective thoughts?

Is he going to tie and then break Aaron's mark on the road, in LA and then SD, where he will surely be boooooooooooooooooooooooed?

Will there be any celebration at all?

I love the Sports Reporters on ESPN Sunday mornings. Unanimously they come out against Bonds, and haven't changed their tune one bit all these years. Mitch Albom, Mike Lupicka, and Bob Ryan. They say it like I see it.

Others, on the baseball show, Baseball Tonight, tend to carry the corporate water. Peter Gammons, Joe Morgan, Eduardo Perez, hell, every single former and current player gives kudos to Barroid for his great feat. That so disappoints me. No guts.

They stick together. Where are the honest players? Why don't they speak out? Fear of repurcussions I guess. How can anyone defend Bonds? I just don't get it. When I hear Fox analyst Jeff Huson defending Barry I just cringe. Sure we don't have proof other than the mountain of circumstancial evidence. And Barry won't confess. I'm not waiting for THAT to happen. But how can these former and current players praise Bonds and claim it's such a great feat? What message does it send to the kids??

I hope baseball doesn't go the way of cycling. The Tour de France ended today, I think, amidst more doping scandals and controversy. Face it, it's the Tour de Farce now. I assume everyone in that sport is blood doping or juicing or doing something illegal.

[Roxpert]

Wait 'till Jose Canseco's new book comes out this fall. Word is that he has some "juicy" stuff in store for A-Rod. This steroids story just will not die.

[Roxpert]

From time to time, I will post a political blog or link that I think is well-written, unique, and thought-provoking enough to merit a read by every open mind on this forum. This one, by Marty Kaplan, is sobering, and we can only hope that the worst doesn't happen with this current political dynamic in place.

Marty Kaplan: After the Next 9/11 - Politics on The Huffington Post

[Dante Bichette]

I have never rooted for Bonds to hit a home run before, but I would love to see him hit 2 in the next few days. He is obviously going to tie and then break the record at some point very soon, and what better place to do it than in LA or San Diego, where he will his accomplishment will receive the fitting tribute, a resounding chorus of boos.

To me, this would be the real astrisk. Not a star next to a number in the record book (do such "record books" even exist? Does anyone have one?), but a highlight that will be shown over and over again and will always result in disdain rather than cheer. That is his legacy and that is what deserves to be passed on to the next generation. Kids that aren't even born yet will hear about Barry Bonds some day and all they will know is the highlight of him being booed when he tied and broke the old home run recored.

Please, God, make this happen. I hope Barry is locked in on this road trip, but my heart fears that he will not perform as well as possible and he will still be chasing the record when he returns home to play in front of the Bay Area myopians.

[Roxpert]

Dante, I hadn't thought of it that way, but you bring up a great point. I don't know how many times I've seen the tape of Aaron's #715 (actually saw it happen live on TV), #62 for Maris, or Ted Williams' last at-bat. Those are timeless, and if Bonds hits #756 in enemy territory with the expected reaction, all posterity will remember the "Steroid Era" in this way. In fact, it could be the "signature moment" of the whole era. Let's hope it happens.

[indianadrew]

bravo dante
one heck of a post. i have never heard that point before. very fattening food for thought, that will be thrown around the water cooler.

[Newman]

Ditto Dante.

Good observation. I concur. I hope that boooooooooing scenario plays out for 755 and 756, etched in stone, on videotape. No celebration or a forced awkward celebration. Is Bud going to come out, shake his hand, give him a bronzed syringe plaque for his accomplishment?

I just had sinus surgery. Feeling a little woozie. No pain though. I hope it fixes my problem (my sinus problem). The Rox are making it exciting. Too bad about Rodrigo going down for the year. That can't help.

[indianadrew]

i was bring up dantes point to a few buddies at work and he said that he thought they would sit him, so he is able to do it in SF.

well i just checked the boxes from yesterday. he played. i guess that theory is debunked.
hey newman. did they give you anything for the pain

[BigRapidsJackass]

Yeah, Drew, I actually watched the Giants-Dodgers last night hoping that Bonds would hit one out ... I wanted to hear the chorus of boos from the stands when it happened. I think tonight's game may be the one ...

[indianadrew]

i dont think that he will hit another until he gets back to SF. as much as i would like to hear the boos, i think that barry is WELL aware that if he hits it on the road he will be booed. i think he is way too arrogant to let that happen. he wont hit another until they get back home.