So how bad is it ... really? - Page 2

Dante Bichette · May 27th, 2008, 04:46 PM

Luckily for me, I have been out of town for the past two weeks. Just got back from a trip to Chicago, where I took in two games at Wrigley field, and Boston, where I was fortunate enough to visit Fenway twice (although I missed Lester's no hitter, even though I was in town that night). I come home to find out that Hawpe, Holliday, and Barmes are all on the DL, and the rockies look like a bad AAA team. At least baseball is alive and well in other cities, as my trip to Chicago and Boston can atest.

As for the hometown team, they are reaping what they sow. This is par for the course for O'Dowd and Hurdle, who have a history of underachieving, and the Monforts, who gave the fans the finger last year on their magical run to the world series. Injuries are definately at play, but this team is and was lousy before they even had a built in excuse. In Boston I saw Bartolo Colon's first start, and I saw a pitcher who still has good stuff and could have been had. Instead, O'Dowd went the Wells/Redman/Towers route, for more money, and surprise, suprise, there is nothing to show for it.

At least I won't spend the better part of two days this year trying to get playoff tickets, only to find out that "fans" in Japan procurred what I was unable to.

TheIncredibleRox · July 2nd, 2008, 07:43 PM

Called it.

Francis to the DL. Shoulder.

Quote:

"He's been suffering from an inconsistent arm slot since Opening Day," Hurdle said. "I don't think he's felt the inflammation since then, but it's become more a part of the problem."

BigRapidsJackass · July 2nd, 2008, 09:17 PM

Bad form, IR, jumping in so fast ...

... I had just checked back here to post something like, "IR was right after all."

Too bad, since arm trouble is always cause for concern, but it may explain why Francis has sucked.

Curious, though, why Redman is back. Wouldn't Hirsh be the next obvious candidate?

HoyaRoxFan · July 2nd, 2008, 09:36 PM

Made so much sense as soon as I saw it. Kid was leaving way too many pitches up there, something had to be not right. You ask about Hirsh? Haven't they been hyping the return of Wells? And to choose Redman? Very curious indeed.

Anybody get to watch Bowers tonight? How did he look? Make you forget Fuentes yet? If Buchholz takes over as "9th-inning guy" come August, would Grilli be "8th-inning guy?"

GerryInCS · July 2nd, 2008, 11:47 PM

Grilli has pitched well as of late. Bowers had some heat, but I think he suffered from the jitters of having his first appearance in the majors. He would throw a couple of fastballs for strikes and then miss with the curveball or leave it hanging. Thankfully, Fuentes hasn't had to pitch in the last two games. That shellacking he took in game 1 of this series should be hard to overcome.

Newman · July 13th, 2008, 06:24 AM

We'll see how bad it is after the all star break, when attendance falls off the cliff. Or will it? There are so many fans out there who will go see a product, win or lose, no matter what the effort by Management.

I see where Evan Longoria made his first of many All Star teams. Greg Reynolds? Back in AAA. You can't miss on the number 3 player taken in a draft, and not have it hurt you in the future, because some day the future is now.

BigRapidsJackass · July 13th, 2008, 01:42 PM

Newman, I've been astounded by the size of some of the crowds despite the poor baseball show our locals have been exhibiting.

Example: Monday before the 4th of July. I was there, and the crowd was about 42,000. No fireworks, no giveaways, not a particualrly attractive opponent (Padres, an embarrassing 15-8 loss for the Rox that night). Lots of casual fans, with a huge walk-up sale. Kind of like the old days: baseball just "the thing to do" when the kids are on summer vacation.

So I'm guessing that no matter how bad the Rox play, attendance will be o.k through mid-August or so. The true test is September. We may be looking at crowds in the sub-15,000 range when we're 15 games out, careening toward a 96 loss season.

My biggest concern isn't now the "do we trade Holliday, do we sign him, do we lock up anyone else, will Tulo come back strong", etc, etc. variety. Nope, it's more serious than that. It's exactly what I was afraid of about 3 years ago: is Helton essentially done? If he doesn't ever produce more than he did in the first half this year, I think you can write off this team's chances for the next 3 years. This is a guy owed $19 million for the 2011 season. Owners as cheap as the Monforts can't absorb that kind of hit.

So there's really only 2 scenarios here:

-- Helton rests up and comes back next year to resemble (roughly) the diminished Todd of '06-'07, a shell of his former self but still a very productive player

-- Helton simply can't drive the ball at all anymore, and he continues to slide into oblivion, taking the club's chances for the foreseeable future with him.

Remember Jeff Bagwell? Mark McGwire?

Oh, sorry, I guess they're not comparable ... they were widely considered to be poster boys for the aftermath of years of steroid use ...

... is Helton's contract insured like Bagwell's? If so, our best bet might be a medical opinion that his back makes him unable to play.

Newman · July 13th, 2008, 08:54 PM

Helton received a second epidural on Friday. Back pain. Hip. Pain down his leg, this according to my fantasy site at yahoo.

I heard the woman on the fantasy show, who does the injury report, Stephania Bell?, 1600 espn radio 7pm Sunday say that you never know about backs, witness Rafael Furcal of the Dodgers who now seems to be out for the year with his bad back.

Another complicated problem. Is there any way out of Helton's contract? Would a medical opinion and insurance settlement be the ticket?

Our woeful Rox on national tv, once again being pummeled by the Mets. This time it was 7-0. What an embarassment. When I was bothering to listen they said that the Mets great pitching staff had given up 3 hits or less, what, 3 days in a row, or some kind of record like that which had stood since 1900. Well...they were pitching against the Rockies! I'm not sure that means they have the greatest pitching since __________.

July 2nd, 2008, 11:47 PM	#20 (permalink)
GerryInCS New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 635	Grilli has pitched well as of late. Bowers had some heat, but I think he suffered from the jitters of having his first appearance in the majors. He would throw a couple of fastballs for strikes and then miss with the curveball or leave it hanging. Thankfully, Fuentes hasn't had to pitch in the last two games. That shellacking he took in game 1 of this series should be hard to overcome. __________________ Americans aren't afraid of Mexicans, Americans are afraid that Mexicans are turning America into Mexico.

May 27th, 2008, 04:46 PM	#16 (permalink)
Dante Bichette Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 272	Luckily for me, I have been out of town for the past two weeks. Just got back from a trip to Chicago, where I took in two games at Wrigley field, and Boston, where I was fortunate enough to visit Fenway twice (although I missed Lester's no hitter, even though I was in town that night). I come home to find out that Hawpe, Holliday, and Barmes are all on the DL, and the rockies look like a bad AAA team. At least baseball is alive and well in other cities, as my trip to Chicago and Boston can atest. As for the hometown team, they are reaping what they sow. This is par for the course for O'Dowd and Hurdle, who have a history of underachieving, and the Monforts, who gave the fans the finger last year on their magical run to the world series. Injuries are definately at play, but this team is and was lousy before they even had a built in excuse. In Boston I saw Bartolo Colon's first start, and I saw a pitcher who still has good stuff and could have been had. Instead, O'Dowd went the Wells/Redman/Towers route, for more money, and surprise, suprise, there is nothing to show for it. At least I won't spend the better part of two days this year trying to get playoff tickets, only to find out that "fans" in Japan procurred what I was unable to.

July 2nd, 2008, 09:17 PM	#18 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,175	Bad form, IR, jumping in so fast ... ... I had just checked back here to post something like, "IR was right after all." Too bad, since arm trouble is always cause for concern, but it may explain why Francis has sucked. Curious, though, why Redman is back. Wouldn't Hirsh be the next obvious candidate?

July 2nd, 2008, 09:36 PM	#19 (permalink)
HoyaRoxFan Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 305	Made so much sense as soon as I saw it. Kid was leaving way too many pitches up there, something had to be not right. You ask about Hirsh? Haven't they been hyping the return of Wells? And to choose Redman? Very curious indeed. Anybody get to watch Bowers tonight? How did he look? Make you forget Fuentes yet? If Buchholz takes over as "9th-inning guy" come August, would Grilli be "8th-inning guy?"

July 13th, 2008, 06:24 AM	#21 (permalink)
Newman Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Aurora Posts: 566	We'll see how bad it is after the all star break, when attendance falls off the cliff. Or will it? There are so many fans out there who will go see a product, win or lose, no matter what the effort by Management. I see where Evan Longoria made his first of many All Star teams. Greg Reynolds? Back in AAA. You can't miss on the number 3 player taken in a draft, and not have it hurt you in the future, because some day the future is now.

July 13th, 2008, 01:42 PM	#22 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,175	Newman, I've been astounded by the size of some of the crowds despite the poor baseball show our locals have been exhibiting. Example: Monday before the 4th of July. I was there, and the crowd was about 42,000. No fireworks, no giveaways, not a particualrly attractive opponent (Padres, an embarrassing 15-8 loss for the Rox that night). Lots of casual fans, with a huge walk-up sale. Kind of like the old days: baseball just "the thing to do" when the kids are on summer vacation. So I'm guessing that no matter how bad the Rox play, attendance will be o.k through mid-August or so. The true test is September. We may be looking at crowds in the sub-15,000 range when we're 15 games out, careening toward a 96 loss season. My biggest concern isn't now the "do we trade Holliday, do we sign him, do we lock up anyone else, will Tulo come back strong", etc, etc. variety. Nope, it's more serious than that. It's exactly what I was afraid of about 3 years ago: is Helton essentially done? If he doesn't ever produce more than he did in the first half this year, I think you can write off this team's chances for the next 3 years. This is a guy owed $19 million for the 2011 season. Owners as cheap as the Monforts can't absorb that kind of hit. So there's really only 2 scenarios here: -- Helton rests up and comes back next year to resemble (roughly) the diminished Todd of '06-'07, a shell of his former self but still a very productive player -- Helton simply can't drive the ball at all anymore, and he continues to slide into oblivion, taking the club's chances for the foreseeable future with him. Remember Jeff Bagwell? Mark McGwire? Oh, sorry, I guess they're not comparable ... they were widely considered to be poster boys for the aftermath of years of steroid use ... ... is Helton's contract insured like Bagwell's? If so, our best bet might be a medical opinion that his back makes him unable to play.

July 13th, 2008, 08:54 PM	#23 (permalink)
Newman Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Aurora Posts: 566	Helton received a second epidural on Friday. Back pain. Hip. Pain down his leg, this according to my fantasy site at yahoo. I heard the woman on the fantasy show, who does the injury report, Stephania Bell?, 1600 espn radio 7pm Sunday say that you never know about backs, witness Rafael Furcal of the Dodgers who now seems to be out for the year with his bad back. Another complicated problem. Is there any way out of Helton's contract? Would a medical opinion and insurance settlement be the ticket? Our woeful Rox on national tv, once again being pummeled by the Mets. This time it was 7-0. What an embarassment. When I was bothering to listen they said that the Mets great pitching staff had given up 3 hits or less, what, 3 days in a row, or some kind of record like that which had stood since 1900. Well...they were pitching against the Rockies! I'm not sure that means they have the greatest pitching since __________.