One game playoff Monday - Page 5

sg8335aa · 10-02-2007, 10:34 AM

I think you carry 11 pitchers:
Starters: Francis, Morales, Jimenez, Fogg
Bullpen: Corpas, Fuentes, Herges, Hawkins, Affeldt, Speier and Buchholz

Especially against an offense like Philly, you might lose a starter or two early in the game.

BigRapidsJackass · 10-02-2007, 11:03 AM

Oops, I forgot about Buchholz. I guess you do carry 11, mostly because Speier is valuable but is pretty much a one (or two) out guy.

Heltonfan · 10-02-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

If you have your backup choice standing by, then I think you just lose Tavares' roster spot for the remainder of that game and are back with full roster for the next one.

Nope. You can change your roster from one series to the next, but not from one game to the next. Otherwise, you could pull off all kinds of shenanigans (leave Morales, Jimenez, and Fogg off the Game 1 roster, etc).

wolf213 · 10-02-2007, 01:15 PM

Heres who I would go with:

Pitchers:

Francis
Morales
Jiminez
Fogg

Corpas
Fuentes
Hawkins
Adfelt
Bucholtz
Speier
Herges

Yorvit
Ianetta

Helton
Matsui
Tulo
Atkins
Carroll
Baker

Holliday
Hawpe
Taveres
Spilly
Sullivan
Smith

John Cocktoston · 10-02-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heltonfan

Nope. You can change your roster from one series to the next, but not from one game to the next. Otherwise, you could pull off all kinds of shenanigans (leave Morales, Jimenez, and Fogg off the Game 1 roster, etc).

There's actually a new rule in MLB this year with respect to that. You can replace an injured player during the series with any player on your 40 man roster. It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out...

TheIncredibleRox · 10-02-2007, 02:03 PM

What a game. 3 runs off Hoff. When Hairston homered, a little devil in the back of my brain said 'oh well... this has still been an amazing year.'

Tulo and Holliday wrapped up ROY and MVP tonight.

TheIncredibleRox · 10-02-2007, 04:41 PM

I mean, it was just surreal. Nobody left that stadium for ten minutes after that slide. We all just stood there screaming our heads off, clapping, hugging/high fiving anyone we could reach. All I could do was sit there and scream "OH MY GOD!" 30 times.

My Dad was in stadium for Mazeroski's HR. I have a feeling I'll be looking back on this game when I'm his age.

hotshotTheGreat · 10-02-2007, 04:54 PM

Again, look I am not going to debate your minor league knowledge, because you know your farm systems, but you are off base on some of the points of the season as usual.

hiaspire · 10-02-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotshotTheGreat

Again, look I am not going to debate your minor league knowledge, because you know your farm systems, but you are off base on some of the points of the season as usual.

Are you talking about comments here related to last night's game in this thread, or something different? If I knew what you thought was so off-base, then I could respond to it more directly. Otherwise, I know the general feelings there and am okay with that.

I was much more optimistic about this year's team when forks were being put in them. Above the frustrated cries that we had no shot of ever making the playoffs with these horrible owners, manager, and budget, I stated that just wasn't the case and cited examples of teams that have done it before on the field where it counts. We've now become one of my best examples that it is possible despite the obstacles often complained about. What is off-base, or are you talking about something else? I certainly didn't predict this to happen before the season started (and was more cautiously optimistic than wildly convinced they would conquer the world this very season) but I gave much credit for improvements in this team in recent seasons and expected it to continue while not fearing the NL West additions as much as others here seemed to in reducing our chances of competing.

I think all the pessimism about this team throughout the year was off-base personally, but now we can all just be happy and enjoy the ride. It's going to be fun.

BigRapidsJackass · 10-02-2007, 06:22 PM

Aspire, not to flog a dead horse (where's that animation of a little guy flogging a dead horse on this board? I need him ...), but don't we all agree that it was an extreme longshot? I mean, we're all happy it happened and all that, but in order to get in we were helped by a series of most improbable events:

-- the Mets collapse, getting the Phillies out of the wild card race, and guaranteeing that the D'backs would have nothing to play for on Sunday
-- two blown saves in two games by the all-time saves leader. And not "blown saves" in the "he was really unlucky that that seeing-eye groundball got through" sense. Rather, two saves blown in extravagant, dramatic, they're pounding the crap out of him fashion
-- the most retardo baseball injury ever suffered. Glenallen Hill, you're off the hook with that "dream of spiders" story. "I got taken down by my own manager and tore my ACL" even outdoes the Tagg Bozied injury (ripped up his knee celebrating a HR)
-- the freaky (in a good way) and completely unexpected occurrence of a some completely untested prospects actually outperforming the guys they replaced (read: Morales & Jimenez vs. Hirsh & Lopez)
-- the stupid decisionmaking of Bud Black, who had a chance to go for the knockout punch on Sunday against a team with nothing to play for, and instead decided to hold back until Monday against a team playing for its life

It was a truly incredible comeback. And it wouldn't have been so incredible (and so fun) if it hadn't been all but impossible. "All but" impossible is the key phrase ...

Roxpert · 10-02-2007, 06:39 PM

Jackass, you state the situation of this amazing comeback quite well. The series of fortunate events was "Twilight Zone"-like, and totatlly improbable.

This may not have been as unlikely as winning the million dollar Progressive jackpot on a Megabucks slot machine, but it was really rare. Though, oddly, NOT as unlikely as the Mets collapse if you believe the following study I just received via e-mail from a friend....

Quote:

Bill James was wondering about the relative likelihood of the Mets'
collapse and the Rockies' winning the wild-card. Clay Davenport does
archive the daily odds of these happening and on September 13th
(according to the Pecota version of Clay's formula), the Mets made the
playoffs in 99.8% of his simulations. In other words, they missed once
every 500 times. During September, the longest odds the Rockies faced
was on September 17th, when they made the playoffs in only 2% of his
simulations.

So... at least according to Clay Davenport's simulations, the Mets
collapse was 10 times less likely than the Rockies reaching the
playoffs.

TheTalkingMule · 10-02-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Cubs catcher Michael Barrett appears to have blocked the Rockies' Matt Holliday from touching the plate in the 13th inning Monday night.

hiaspire · 10-02-2007, 06:57 PM

It just depends upon where you want to focus the attention.

If you don't think the Rockies are as good as they are cracked up to be now in driving their own destiny, people can point out all the things that happened to other teams that helped us primarily as we "lucked out" in still-skeptical minds. That can be done with just about every team in baseball, though, to some degree in terms of other teams impacting them also. No team operates in a vacuum.

I disagree with some of those listed, though, and also think more CREDIT needs to go to the TEAM itself for actually winning the games on the field and not so much crediting circumstance instead.

I don't criticize the Mets "collapse" as much as crediting the Phillies. Same with our Rockies. Just depends upon what you want to emphasize, as a little of both is involved in all cases.

Regarding your list:

- Having something to play for is a little over-rated to me. Teams like the Nationals and Brewers knock off their competition all the time. You often see teams with little to play for become the spoilers. These guys are playing for their own pride, paychecks, numbers, and career just like every day of the season for the most part. Sometimes you'll see teams completely check out early, but we've seen too many teams with "nothing" to play for kick the other team's butt.

- I don't think beating Hoffman is unthinkable these days. The Rocks have done that before to him, and he just doesn't have the same stuff.

- The most retardo baseball injury ever suffered had a lot to do with the well known lack of control from the player involved. Sometimes character does matter, and some players are riskier additions than others for a wide variety of potential blowups.

- I didn't want the Rockies to go give up prospects and money on low-end veteran replacements. I'd have much rather them go with some of their top young talent in Morales & Jimenez. Sure it can be said that they over-achieved realistic expectations, but they are also immensely talented and a credit to the organization for having that depth and those options to turn to instead of a mark against them for lucking out into it. When other organizations have young phenoms step up into important roles, they usually get props for that instead of seen as just lucky.

- And again would disagree that throwing Peavy on 3-days rest the day before would have been better for them. We saw him on more rest yesterday and took care of him. With him just going on short rest not long ago and getting shelled, and then having the Rocks hitting him pretty hard last night, I can't see that less rest for Peavy would have been the cure for that team. Of course we'll never know what would have happened otherwise, but Peavy isn't a great big game pitcher as noted anyway. I don't know that it would have been a completely different story if he was weaker going on less rest.

HoyaRoxFan · 10-02-2007, 08:22 PM

Amidst our daily "win with your head" or "win with your heart debate," let it not be overlooked that a Philadelphia sports fan snuck in here and implied we don't deserve to be here.

Don't worry, TalkingMule, regardless of whether he was safe or not, you know, of course, that it doesn't matter.... cuz we're coming. And we've got a nation of sports fans behind us.

Colorado is thrilled to be taking part in an age-old American tradition:

Preventing Philadelphia sports teams from winning championships, one year, one team at a time.

Hitting home runs at Dinger > hitting Santa with snowballs. Bring it!

BigRapidsJackass · 10-02-2007, 10:09 PM

Yeah, WTF, the guy's gonna show us Holliday's slide BEFORE he gets to the bag? And not freeze frame the Atkins "homer?"

You all know I don't like Clint Hurdle, but a guarantee you he will outmanage Charlie Manuel.

10-02-2007, 04:54 PM	#68 (permalink)
hotshotTheGreat Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 25	HiAspire Again, look I am not going to debate your minor league knowledge, because you know your farm systems, but you are off base on some of the points of the season as usual.

10-02-2007, 06:57 PM	#73 (permalink)
hiaspire Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 479	It just depends upon where you want to focus the attention. If you don't think the Rockies are as good as they are cracked up to be now in driving their own destiny, people can point out all the things that happened to other teams that helped us primarily as we "lucked out" in still-skeptical minds. That can be done with just about every team in baseball, though, to some degree in terms of other teams impacting them also. No team operates in a vacuum. I disagree with some of those listed, though, and also think more CREDIT needs to go to the TEAM itself for actually winning the games on the field and not so much crediting circumstance instead. I don't criticize the Mets "collapse" as much as crediting the Phillies. Same with our Rockies. Just depends upon what you want to emphasize, as a little of both is involved in all cases. Regarding your list: - Having something to play for is a little over-rated to me. Teams like the Nationals and Brewers knock off their competition all the time. You often see teams with little to play for become the spoilers. These guys are playing for their own pride, paychecks, numbers, and career just like every day of the season for the most part. Sometimes you'll see teams completely check out early, but we've seen too many teams with "nothing" to play for kick the other team's butt. - I don't think beating Hoffman is unthinkable these days. The Rocks have done that before to him, and he just doesn't have the same stuff. - The most retardo baseball injury ever suffered had a lot to do with the well known lack of control from the player involved. Sometimes character does matter, and some players are riskier additions than others for a wide variety of potential blowups. - I didn't want the Rockies to go give up prospects and money on low-end veteran replacements. I'd have much rather them go with some of their top young talent in Morales & Jimenez. Sure it can be said that they over-achieved realistic expectations, but they are also immensely talented and a credit to the organization for having that depth and those options to turn to instead of a mark against them for lucking out into it. When other organizations have young phenoms step up into important roles, they usually get props for that instead of seen as just lucky. - And again would disagree that throwing Peavy on 3-days rest the day before would have been better for them. We saw him on more rest yesterday and took care of him. With him just going on short rest not long ago and getting shelled, and then having the Rocks hitting him pretty hard last night, I can't see that less rest for Peavy would have been the cure for that team. Of course we'll never know what would have happened otherwise, but Peavy isn't a great big game pitcher as noted anyway. I don't know that it would have been a completely different story if he was weaker going on less rest. Last edited by hiaspire; 10-02-2007 at 07:19 PM.

10-02-2007, 10:34 AM	#61 (permalink)
sg8335aa Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 118	I think you carry 11 pitchers: Starters: Francis, Morales, Jimenez, Fogg Bullpen: Corpas, Fuentes, Herges, Hawkins, Affeldt, Speier and Buchholz Especially against an offense like Philly, you might lose a starter or two early in the game.

10-02-2007, 11:03 AM	#62 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,146	Oops, I forgot about Buchholz. I guess you do carry 11, mostly because Speier is valuable but is pretty much a one (or two) out guy.

10-02-2007, 01:15 PM	#64 (permalink)
wolf213 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Thornton Co Posts: 194	Heres who I would go with: Pitchers: Francis Morales Jiminez Fogg Corpas Fuentes Hawkins Adfelt Bucholtz Speier Herges Yorvit Ianetta Helton Matsui Tulo Atkins Carroll Baker Holliday Hawpe Taveres Spilly Sullivan Smith

10-02-2007, 02:03 PM	#66 (permalink)
TheIncredibleRox Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 284	What a game. 3 runs off Hoff. When Hairston homered, a little devil in the back of my brain said 'oh well... this has still been an amazing year.' Tulo and Holliday wrapped up ROY and MVP tonight.

10-02-2007, 04:41 PM	#67 (permalink)
TheIncredibleRox Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 284	I mean, it was just surreal. Nobody left that stadium for ten minutes after that slide. We all just stood there screaming our heads off, clapping, hugging/high fiving anyone we could reach. All I could do was sit there and scream "OH MY GOD!" 30 times. My Dad was in stadium for Mazeroski's HR. I have a feeling I'll be looking back on this game when I'm his age.

10-02-2007, 06:22 PM	#70 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,146	Aspire, not to flog a dead horse (where's that animation of a little guy flogging a dead horse on this board? I need him ...), but don't we all agree that it was an extreme longshot? I mean, we're all happy it happened and all that, but in order to get in we were helped by a series of most improbable events: -- the Mets collapse, getting the Phillies out of the wild card race, and guaranteeing that the D'backs would have nothing to play for on Sunday -- two blown saves in two games by the all-time saves leader. And not "blown saves" in the "he was really unlucky that that seeing-eye groundball got through" sense. Rather, two saves blown in extravagant, dramatic, they're pounding the crap out of him fashion -- the most retardo baseball injury ever suffered. Glenallen Hill, you're off the hook with that "dream of spiders" story. "I got taken down by my own manager and tore my ACL" even outdoes the Tagg Bozied injury (ripped up his knee celebrating a HR) -- the freaky (in a good way) and completely unexpected occurrence of a some completely untested prospects actually outperforming the guys they replaced (read: Morales & Jimenez vs. Hirsh & Lopez) -- the stupid decisionmaking of Bud Black, who had a chance to go for the knockout punch on Sunday against a team with nothing to play for, and instead decided to hold back until Monday against a team playing for its life It was a truly incredible comeback. And it wouldn't have been so incredible (and so fun) if it hadn't been all but impossible. "All but" impossible is the key phrase ...

10-02-2007, 08:22 PM	#74 (permalink)
HoyaRoxFan Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 288	Amidst our daily "win with your head" or "win with your heart debate," let it not be overlooked that a Philadelphia sports fan snuck in here and implied we don't deserve to be here. Don't worry, TalkingMule, regardless of whether he was safe or not, you know, of course, that it doesn't matter.... cuz we're coming. And we've got a nation of sports fans behind us. Colorado is thrilled to be taking part in an age-old American tradition: Preventing Philadelphia sports teams from winning championships, one year, one team at a time. Hitting home runs at Dinger > hitting Santa with snowballs. Bring it!

10-02-2007, 10:09 PM	#75 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,146	Yeah, WTF, the guy's gonna show us Holliday's slide BEFORE he gets to the bag? And not freeze frame the Atkins "homer?" You all know I don't like Clint Hurdle, but a guarantee you he will outmanage Charlie Manuel.