One game playoff Monday - Page 4

HoyaRoxFan · 10-02-2007, 01:14 AM

We have 7 guys on the 60-man DL and we can replace any of them with any of our September callups. So I think anyone's fair game.

I'm not sure I want to see Affeldt or Julio again... ever.

Dante Bichette · 10-02-2007, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

I still don't get why Hurdle took out Corpas after just one inning. Can't wait to see the paper. How many pitches could Manny have thrown in the 9th? I'm guessing it was 14. Then Herges pitches 3 innings? Where's the logic there?

To me, the better question is why he used both Fuentes and Corpas on Saturday in a 10 run game, then he needed both yesturday, so today they were working for the 3rd straight game. If he hadn't used either on Saturday, we could have used both for two innings today. Instead, his hands were tied by his poor decision on Saturday night.

But, I digress. It is hard even for me to be critical of Hurdle right now. 14 out of the final 15 to get in the playoffs speaks for itself. So does 90 wins. That figure will shut me up, for now.

Roxpert · 10-02-2007, 01:15 AM

Forget percentage odds of getting to the NLCS, World Series, or whatever. This team don't know stats! They don't care. All they do is achieve the unachievable, the most resilient team I have seen in some time.

Yes, I was there. It was mayhem on the concourse behind home plate after the winning run scored. My wife and I hightailed it out of there before getting caught in a riot situation, and we beat the traffic home.

Now, let's hope our GM has better sense with the postseason roster than Gebhard did when he had 12 pitchers on the staff, and we ran out of pinch hitters in '95, resulting in the famous Lance Painter at-bat. We should go with a 4-man rotation and 6 relievers. Maybe 7, for an 11-man staff at most.

It'll be quite an experience for this young upstart team to play the postseason. And the value of this franchise just skyrocketed. If I were Monfort........I'd sell HIGH, and laugh all the way to the bank. Cuban could build a Rockies dynasty, but the Monforts? We'll see.

BigRapidsJackass · 10-02-2007, 01:16 AM

Just got back from this one.

The most emotionally draining sporting event I've ever been to. For about 6 solid innings, our relievers had us not on the edge of our seats -- the entire stadium was standing. And then despair in the top of the 13th, followed by ... the most astonishing comeback BECAUSE IT'S TREVOR SAVE KING HOFFMAN OUT THERE and because there was absolutely nothing lucky or cheap about how we beat up on him.

I was supposed to be out of town next weekend. My wife will kill me. I'm cutting short a "long weekend" to a day and a half. I've got my NLDS tix BECAUSE I BECAME A TRUE BELIEVER after the sweep of the Padres.

TEAM OF DESTINY ... BELIEVE IT!

Dante Bichette · 10-02-2007, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxpert

Now, let's hope our GM has better sense with the postseason roster than Gebhard did when he had 12 pitchers on the staff, and we ran out of pinch hitters in '95, resulting in the famous Lance Painter at-bat. We should go with a 4-man rotation and 6 relievers. Maybe 7, for an 11-man staff at most.

I think we go with Francis, Fogg, Jimenez, Morales, Corpas, Fuentes, Herges, Afeldt, Bucholz, Hawkins, and Spier. That makes 11, and I wouldn't be surprised if Redman makes it as well, although I agree with you that we need extra hitters. I would stick with those 11.

The better question might be which bench players we go with. Sullivan, Carroll, and Ianetta for sure. The rest seems up for grabs. Probably Baker and Tavares if he is healthy, but then who. I would think Smith the way he is hitting, but maybe Stewart?

Newman · 10-02-2007, 01:31 AM

Well, Hurdle better make the right decisions or I'll be all over his ass, all the way to the World Series if he keeps screwing up this way, lol!

What a game!

And I don't want to hear anymore about how much Matt Holliday's defense has improved. He looked the same to me when he misplayed that fly ball that almost cost us the playoffs. Frankly I don't get how we've compiled such great defensive stats, as a team. I'll grant that Todd, Kaz, and Tulo are very good defensively, and then Taveras when his cranky quadricep allows him to play is good too, but the others are just average at best.

Nice home run by Helton in the 3rd.

Another gripe: Hurdle lets Fogg bat for himself in the 4th and then takes him out after two batters in the 5th. That made no sense to me either. You have a 40 man roster, Clint. Fogg had been batted around in the 3rd when SD went ahead 5-3. Obviously Foggy wasn't that sharp. Why let him bat?

I know, I know...we won...but barely I might point out, maybe by a fingertip.

HoyaRoxFan · 10-02-2007, 01:31 AM

Rockies website says Taveras will be ready to go on Wednesday. I'd count him in.

Newman · 10-02-2007, 01:38 AM

I don't want Taveras on the roster. Can't trust that quad.

Rather have this Seth Smith character, maybe even than Stewart. I forgot about his heroic triple. That kid can hit!

Dante, I like your 11 pitchers. We don't need Redman at this point. I mean give him a World Series share and all, for what he did to get us there, but we don't need another Lance Painter situation.

DieHardRoxFan · 10-02-2007, 01:53 AM

UNBELIEVABLE

UNBELIEVABLE! What a great game. I was ready to scream about a couple of moves but all's well that ends well. I also don't want to see Julio again.

hiaspire · 10-02-2007, 02:41 AM

What a game. My legs and voice are weary but my heart's still pounding. It was a classic game, not just for us but all-time. What a way to end the regular season and start these playoffs.

Wish we weren't going against our brothers in amazing comebacks, but it should only make for an even more exciting series. The NL field isn't all that tough. We've got as good a shot as anyone. There may be more amazing things ahead. I love our chances at home, and if we can steal one of the early games in Philly (like we did last time we were there) I think we'll be going all the way to the unthinkable final series. Bring those Yankees back to Coors, and let's see if we can give them another beating.

You'd think the Rox will either be all spent and fail to show up in the playoffs and just be happy with what they've accomplished, or else they'll be unstoppable with confidence that they can do anything now.

How great was it to see Helton in these big games? He so deserves this. Holliday and Tulo are our potential award winners for the season, but Helton was the man on this run and the team really responded to him and knew how much this meant through him and it showed in their celebration. I believe Helton keeps us going in these playoffs.

I am usually one to argue against people complaining too much about the manager, and especially in wins. In general, early in the game I thought Hurdle was doing a lot of good things and being very proactive and not sticking with guys too long before they got into trouble. We could have won the game several times before SD used some of their better guys waiting in the wings, and Hurdle at least had out guys in there and aggressively pushing for the win at home. I said it long ago that he's got a shot at manager of the year with this amazing improvement, and he'd get my vote. As the outcome was in doubt and the season on the line, though, I was worried about a few choices along the way.

They swapped Atkins with Carroll sooner then they normally do (trying to get the run home from second with more speed) and I cringed every time that spot came up afterwards, but Carroll really delivered a couple of times professionally. We asked more of him offensively than we should have, but he came through. Even though Ian Stewart's been overmatched at times in the early going, I was thinking I would have preferred his power potential there to end it with a swing when Atkins was removed from the middle of the order.

I would have probably liked Fuentes to at least start the 9th and see how it went since we were still tied. It is understandable that Corpas didn't go longer because he had to be pinch-hit for with a chance to win. Then it was really up to Herges and they really pushed him as far as they could. I think he had more balls than strikes but got the job done in keeping them off the board for longer than he should have been expected too. He should get some credit for carrying us through those extra innings.

It felt like they were sticking so long with Herges because he was their last reliable hope for quality late innings, and when it was time for someone else I was hoping for Morales or some other starter who was rested since who knows how long that was going to last, as it felt like it could have gone all night.

We pulled it out, though. Just like the season, we were on the very brink of the season being over and this team just didn't allow that to happen. They've got a lot of fight in them under those do-or-die situations, and that's a good thing as we head into these playoffs.

The Rockies are in the playoffs and as good a shot as anyone in the NL to play for all the marbles. What an incredible season!

BigRapidsJackass · 10-02-2007, 03:29 AM

Some good points there, Aspire.

Herges wasn't exactly dominating, but 3 scoreless innings? I'll take the result.

Given my opinion of O'Dowd signing him for $3.5 million I can't believe I'm saying this, but ... right now LaTroy Hawkins needs to be getting the important innings out of the pen. Hitting 96 on the radar tonight, and getting batters to pound the ball into the ground.

I agree with you on pulling Atkins. Sure, you'd like to score that run, but you gotta know you're probably giving up at least one plate appearance by Atkins when you do it. I've also got to second that thought about Fogg batting in the 4th and then being pulled one out into the 5th. And the double switch with Spilly/Sullivan? Too early given the extended roster.

The NLDS rotation should look like this:

W Francis
Th Morales
Sa Jimenez
Su ? I would hope that if Philly is up 2-1 we don't throw Fogg. I'd like to see Francis come back on 3-days rest

[By the way, NO ONE will ever say that Peavy would have been better on short rest. And there's no basis for saying so. But likewise there's no basis for saying he's crap on 3 days rest. When a manager like Bud Black refuses to use his ace on 3 days rest in a critical game, he's doing that out of cowardice. Jack McKeon was not a coward, Josh Beckett got it done, they've both got rings to show for it.]

Tu Francis or Morales

Gotta steal one in Philly to put the pressure on big time.

With 2 schedule off days, no way you carry more than 11 pitchers. In fact, 10 may be a better idea. The 4 starters (yes, I'm counting Fogg), then Corpas/Fuentes/Hawkins for the high-leverage situations, Affelt/Speier as ROOGY/LOOGY, and Herges whenever he's needed. I'd leave Julio at home, not because he was awful tonight, but because Speier and Herges are clearly ahead of him now on the depth chart.

That would leave room for 15 position players: the 8 starters + Iannetta, Carroll, Sullivan, Baker (athough he seems like a pretty useless player now and could be dispensable if only we had someone else worth keeping on the bench -- we don't), Taveras (if he can run he's valuable, and I'd use him as a pinch runner/sub, not a starter), Stewart, Smith/Koshansky (right now I'd prefer Smith simply because he's looking like a better contact hitter and he can run a bit).

For the Phils it'll be Hamels (the new good old Barry Zito), someone crappy, Moyer (I love that his turn will come up at Coors), someone else crappy, Hamels.

This strikes me as a very even series. I hope it goes 5 but I won't complain if we take it in 3 or 4, even though my best tix are for Game 5.

Bring 'em on, they can't stop the TEAM OF DESTINY.

[Although I probably shouldn't say that, since it reminds me of this Onion headline: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/32829]

Newman · 10-02-2007, 08:44 AM

Leave Taveras home. One sprint up the first base line, he grabs his thigh, and he's gone, and we waste a roster spot. You can't trust his thigh. I don't.

Fogg gets battered, they bat around, then Hurdle leaveshim in to bat? Takes him out the next inning? With an expanded roster? That is NOT manager of the year material.

I like Smith better than Stewart right now.

Ditto on Carroll batting instead of Atkins, but he did come thru. You need some luck to win. Plus didn't Jamie make an error at 3B, not what you want from a defensive replacement. Keep Atkins bat in longer next time.

Corpas was taken out because he was due up? Can't all this be maneuvered with double switches when he is put in, in the first place? I still am not a Hurdle fan. Last year he was bouncing the ball in the dugout. This year he is chewing gum like a teenager. Annoying habits. OK, ok, ok...we won...I can live with it, but no MOY award for Clint.

unreal654 · 10-02-2007, 08:47 AM

Taveras is worth the risk in my opinion. He has the kind of speed that can be really valuable off the bench in the playoffs. It's a risk, but everything has been falling into place for the Rockies so far...

hiaspire · 10-02-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

Fogg gets battered, they bat around, then Hurdle leaveshim in to bat? Takes him out the next inning? With an expanded roster? That is NOT manager of the year material.

That's not the case IMO. Fogg had a 1-2-3 inning where he struck out 2 of the batters bouncing back strong from the trouble in the 3rd after a fine first and second inning. He was great other than that one inning. I believe they had every intention of sticking with him longer, but when he gave up a deep double to start the next inning, I think they acted appropriately in wanting to stop things right there and not chance another repeat of the 3rd. Buchholz came in and did a great job.

On every broadcast I've heard when they are talking about the expanded rosters, and even on 950 with his harshest critics, they all say we've done the best managing that as anyone down the stretch playing the best baseball in the game using so many players.

Quote:

Corpas was taken out because he was due up? Can't all this be maneuvered with double switches when he is put in, in the first place?

Double-switching involves another position player also. Who are you going to take out at that critical time from our everyday lineup? They had already double-switched with Sullivan going into center with Fuentes the inning before I believe.

RockieRooter · 10-02-2007, 09:58 AM

I believe that Tavares can be replaced on the post-season roster if he goes down with another quad pull. So it's worth the gamble. If you have your backup choice standing by, then I think you just lose Tavares' roster spot for the remainder of that game and are back with full roster for the next one. I'd use him as a pinch runner for the first few games as needed to cut down on the risk and maximize his usefulness.

10-02-2007, 02:41 AM	#55 (permalink)
hiaspire Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 479	What a game. My legs and voice are weary but my heart's still pounding. It was a classic game, not just for us but all-time. What a way to end the regular season and start these playoffs. Wish we weren't going against our brothers in amazing comebacks, but it should only make for an even more exciting series. The NL field isn't all that tough. We've got as good a shot as anyone. There may be more amazing things ahead. I love our chances at home, and if we can steal one of the early games in Philly (like we did last time we were there) I think we'll be going all the way to the unthinkable final series. Bring those Yankees back to Coors, and let's see if we can give them another beating. You'd think the Rox will either be all spent and fail to show up in the playoffs and just be happy with what they've accomplished, or else they'll be unstoppable with confidence that they can do anything now. How great was it to see Helton in these big games? He so deserves this. Holliday and Tulo are our potential award winners for the season, but Helton was the man on this run and the team really responded to him and knew how much this meant through him and it showed in their celebration. I believe Helton keeps us going in these playoffs. I am usually one to argue against people complaining too much about the manager, and especially in wins. In general, early in the game I thought Hurdle was doing a lot of good things and being very proactive and not sticking with guys too long before they got into trouble. We could have won the game several times before SD used some of their better guys waiting in the wings, and Hurdle at least had out guys in there and aggressively pushing for the win at home. I said it long ago that he's got a shot at manager of the year with this amazing improvement, and he'd get my vote. As the outcome was in doubt and the season on the line, though, I was worried about a few choices along the way. They swapped Atkins with Carroll sooner then they normally do (trying to get the run home from second with more speed) and I cringed every time that spot came up afterwards, but Carroll really delivered a couple of times professionally. We asked more of him offensively than we should have, but he came through. Even though Ian Stewart's been overmatched at times in the early going, I was thinking I would have preferred his power potential there to end it with a swing when Atkins was removed from the middle of the order. I would have probably liked Fuentes to at least start the 9th and see how it went since we were still tied. It is understandable that Corpas didn't go longer because he had to be pinch-hit for with a chance to win. Then it was really up to Herges and they really pushed him as far as they could. I think he had more balls than strikes but got the job done in keeping them off the board for longer than he should have been expected too. He should get some credit for carrying us through those extra innings. It felt like they were sticking so long with Herges because he was their last reliable hope for quality late innings, and when it was time for someone else I was hoping for Morales or some other starter who was rested since who knows how long that was going to last, as it felt like it could have gone all night. We pulled it out, though. Just like the season, we were on the very brink of the season being over and this team just didn't allow that to happen. They've got a lot of fight in them under those do-or-die situations, and that's a good thing as we head into these playoffs. The Rockies are in the playoffs and as good a shot as anyone in the NL to play for all the marbles. What an incredible season! Last edited by hiaspire; 10-02-2007 at 02:44 AM.

10-02-2007, 08:44 AM	#57 (permalink)
Newman Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Aurora Posts: 553	Leave Taveras home. One sprint up the first base line, he grabs his thigh, and he's gone, and we waste a roster spot. You can't trust his thigh. I don't. Fogg gets battered, they bat around, then Hurdle leaveshim in to bat? Takes him out the next inning? With an expanded roster? That is NOT manager of the year material. I like Smith better than Stewart right now. Ditto on Carroll batting instead of Atkins, but he did come thru. You need some luck to win. Plus didn't Jamie make an error at 3B, not what you want from a defensive replacement. Keep Atkins bat in longer next time. Corpas was taken out because he was due up? Can't all this be maneuvered with double switches when he is put in, in the first place? I still am not a Hurdle fan. Last year he was bouncing the ball in the dugout. This year he is chewing gum like a teenager. Annoying habits. OK, ok, ok...we won...I can live with it, but no MOY award for Clint. Last edited by Newman; 10-02-2007 at 08:46 AM. Reason: Chewing bubblegum with mouth open

10-02-2007, 01:14 AM	#46 (permalink)
HoyaRoxFan Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 288	We have 7 guys on the 60-man DL and we can replace any of them with any of our September callups. So I think anyone's fair game. I'm not sure I want to see Affeldt or Julio again... ever.

10-02-2007, 01:15 AM	#48 (permalink)
Roxpert Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,059	Forget percentage odds of getting to the NLCS, World Series, or whatever. This team don't know stats! They don't care. All they do is achieve the unachievable, the most resilient team I have seen in some time. Yes, I was there. It was mayhem on the concourse behind home plate after the winning run scored. My wife and I hightailed it out of there before getting caught in a riot situation, and we beat the traffic home. Now, let's hope our GM has better sense with the postseason roster than Gebhard did when he had 12 pitchers on the staff, and we ran out of pinch hitters in '95, resulting in the famous Lance Painter at-bat. We should go with a 4-man rotation and 6 relievers. Maybe 7, for an 11-man staff at most. It'll be quite an experience for this young upstart team to play the postseason. And the value of this franchise just skyrocketed. If I were Monfort........I'd sell HIGH, and laugh all the way to the bank. Cuban could build a Rockies dynasty, but the Monforts? We'll see.

10-02-2007, 01:16 AM	#49 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,146	Just got back from this one. The most emotionally draining sporting event I've ever been to. For about 6 solid innings, our relievers had us not on the edge of our seats -- the entire stadium was standing. And then despair in the top of the 13th, followed by ... the most astonishing comeback BECAUSE IT'S TREVOR SAVE KING HOFFMAN OUT THERE and because there was absolutely nothing lucky or cheap about how we beat up on him. I was supposed to be out of town next weekend. My wife will kill me. I'm cutting short a "long weekend" to a day and a half. I've got my NLDS tix BECAUSE I BECAME A TRUE BELIEVER after the sweep of the Padres. TEAM OF DESTINY ... BELIEVE IT!

10-02-2007, 01:31 AM	#51 (permalink)
Newman Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Aurora Posts: 553	Well, Hurdle better make the right decisions or I'll be all over his ass, all the way to the World Series if he keeps screwing up this way, lol! What a game! And I don't want to hear anymore about how much Matt Holliday's defense has improved. He looked the same to me when he misplayed that fly ball that almost cost us the playoffs. Frankly I don't get how we've compiled such great defensive stats, as a team. I'll grant that Todd, Kaz, and Tulo are very good defensively, and then Taveras when his cranky quadricep allows him to play is good too, but the others are just average at best. Nice home run by Helton in the 3rd. Another gripe: Hurdle lets Fogg bat for himself in the 4th and then takes him out after two batters in the 5th. That made no sense to me either. You have a 40 man roster, Clint. Fogg had been batted around in the 3rd when SD went ahead 5-3. Obviously Foggy wasn't that sharp. Why let him bat? I know, I know...we won...but barely I might point out, maybe by a fingertip.

10-02-2007, 01:31 AM	#52 (permalink)
HoyaRoxFan Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 288	Rockies website says Taveras will be ready to go on Wednesday. I'd count him in.

10-02-2007, 01:38 AM	#53 (permalink)
Newman Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Aurora Posts: 553	I don't want Taveras on the roster. Can't trust that quad. Rather have this Seth Smith character, maybe even than Stewart. I forgot about his heroic triple. That kid can hit! Dante, I like your 11 pitchers. We don't need Redman at this point. I mean give him a World Series share and all, for what he did to get us there, but we don't need another Lance Painter situation.

10-02-2007, 01:53 AM	#54 (permalink)
DieHardRoxFan Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 153	UNBELIEVABLE UNBELIEVABLE! What a great game. I was ready to scream about a couple of moves but all's well that ends well. I also don't want to see Julio again.

10-02-2007, 03:29 AM	#56 (permalink)
BigRapidsJackass Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,146	Some good points there, Aspire. Herges wasn't exactly dominating, but 3 scoreless innings? I'll take the result. Given my opinion of O'Dowd signing him for $3.5 million I can't believe I'm saying this, but ... right now LaTroy Hawkins needs to be getting the important innings out of the pen. Hitting 96 on the radar tonight, and getting batters to pound the ball into the ground. I agree with you on pulling Atkins. Sure, you'd like to score that run, but you gotta know you're probably giving up at least one plate appearance by Atkins when you do it. I've also got to second that thought about Fogg batting in the 4th and then being pulled one out into the 5th. And the double switch with Spilly/Sullivan? Too early given the extended roster. The NLDS rotation should look like this: W Francis Th Morales Sa Jimenez Su ? I would hope that if Philly is up 2-1 we don't throw Fogg. I'd like to see Francis come back on 3-days rest [By the way, NO ONE will ever say that Peavy would have been better on short rest. And there's no basis for saying so. But likewise there's no basis for saying he's crap on 3 days rest. When a manager like Bud Black refuses to use his ace on 3 days rest in a critical game, he's doing that out of cowardice. Jack McKeon was not a coward, Josh Beckett got it done, they've both got rings to show for it.] Tu Francis or Morales Gotta steal one in Philly to put the pressure on big time. With 2 schedule off days, no way you carry more than 11 pitchers. In fact, 10 may be a better idea. The 4 starters (yes, I'm counting Fogg), then Corpas/Fuentes/Hawkins for the high-leverage situations, Affelt/Speier as ROOGY/LOOGY, and Herges whenever he's needed. I'd leave Julio at home, not because he was awful tonight, but because Speier and Herges are clearly ahead of him now on the depth chart. That would leave room for 15 position players: the 8 starters + Iannetta, Carroll, Sullivan, Baker (athough he seems like a pretty useless player now and could be dispensable if only we had someone else worth keeping on the bench -- we don't), Taveras (if he can run he's valuable, and I'd use him as a pinch runner/sub, not a starter), Stewart, Smith/Koshansky (right now I'd prefer Smith simply because he's looking like a better contact hitter and he can run a bit). For the Phils it'll be Hamels (the new good old Barry Zito), someone crappy, Moyer (I love that his turn will come up at Coors), someone else crappy, Hamels. This strikes me as a very even series. I hope it goes 5 but I won't complain if we take it in 3 or 4, even though my best tix are for Game 5. Bring 'em on, they can't stop the TEAM OF DESTINY. [Although I probably shouldn't say that, since it reminds me of this Onion headline: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/32829]

10-02-2007, 08:47 AM	#58 (permalink)
unreal654 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 332	Taveras is worth the risk in my opinion. He has the kind of speed that can be really valuable off the bench in the playoffs. It's a risk, but everything has been falling into place for the Rockies so far...

10-02-2007, 09:58 AM	#60 (permalink)
RockieRooter Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 62	I believe that Tavares can be replaced on the post-season roster if he goes down with another quad pull. So it's worth the gamble. If you have your backup choice standing by, then I think you just lose Tavares' roster spot for the remainder of that game and are back with full roster for the next one. I'd use him as a pinch runner for the first few games as needed to cut down on the risk and maximize his usefulness.