dodgers at rockies

[John Cocktoston]

Newman, there's hope for you yet.

That's when we'll all know that the Rockies are back: when Newman asks to borrow my pom-poms. I'm guessing it happens by the middle of June, 2008.

I hope so, anyway.

[TheIncredibleRox]

Newman... speaking of Hurdle...

I say this knowing full well it will draw gags from several members of this board; Hurdle should be considered for manager of the year .

Do I think he has changed? No. The presence of Tavares and K-Mat eliminated his perceived need for sac-bunt psychosis. That was his biggest fault--a big one-- and it's gone. Other than that, he's a completely average-ish manager. And the difference between an average-ish manager and one of the best is small.

There are two reasons Hurdle deserves consideration in my mind.

A) The notion that a managers biggest job is 'getting the most from his players.' Everyone has performed. I think he handled Tulo and Ianetta well after early struggles. He gave up on Finely and Mabry, breaking his penchant for useless 'vets' on the bench. I think he handled the running game to our advantage; Willy and K-Mat didn't just steal for the hell of it; they stole at appropriate times with great success. He let Ryan Spilborgs push Willy and Hawpe out of at-bats to the correct degree.

B) No greater challenge was faced by a manager this year than the rotation Hurdle has had to manage for the last month-plus. And quite frankly, he's passed with flying colors with what he's been given. Not that there isn't nit-picking to be found, but he's managed to get useful results from Mark Redmans, Denny Bautistas, Matt Herges, Elmer Dessens, and Tim Harrikalas. To say nothing of Ubaldo Jimenez and Franklin Morales; two starry-eyed kids now viewed as something of 'rocks' in our rotation.

Bob Melvin, Lou Pinella, Charlie Manuel, and Bud Black might have arguments as well. But at the least I think Hurdle is in the thick of it.

[John Cocktoston]

I think you can make a case for Hurdle with a straight face, which is tantamount to sacrilege around here. You didn't even mention perhaps his greatest contribution to the 2007 Rockies, which was his unwaivering defense of Garrett Atkins during a brutal stretch to begin the season. Where would this team be without Atkins' bat? (His glove is another matter, but still...)

Anyway, if I had a vote, it would go to Manny Acta. That Washington team had a chance to be not just bad, but historically bad. You also have to hand it to Bob Melvin. I don't know what the hell he's doing in Arizona, but there has to be some sort of explanation beyond just dumb luck....right? Maybe?

But yeah, I could see a vote for Hurdle making sense if the team finishes strong.

[Roxpert]

Well, Hurdle has certainly been there in the dugout during this period of team success, just as he was there as manager during 5 years of struggles. As in the movie, "Being There", Clint could indeed be impersonating Peter Sellers quite well and be in the hunt for Manager of the Year.

But, let me cite a half-dozen reasons why Hurdle hasn't really earned the award.....

1) He overused and abused Brian Fuentes during his "week from Hell", possibly contributing to his injury and losing him for a month. That 35-pitch outing in Houston in the blowout loss was not helpful to Brian or the team's chances.

2) He overused Yorvit Torrealba in the first part of the season, icing Chris Iannetta (who had a higher OPS at the time than Yorvit), resulting in the need to send Iannetta back to AAA for a refresher course while tiring Torreabla out, and making him a useless hitter due to the fatigue since the All-Star break (save for one game against Philly).

3) Once again, Hurdle refused to use his closing pitchers for more than 3 outs, until a recent game when he actually went to Corpas with one out in the 8th inning. Manny rewarded him with 5 outs on 13 pitches, and then Clint promptly forgot about it and didn't do it again, when needed, in the subsequent games.

4) Matt Holliday, Corpas, Francis, and Tulowitzki have been the team MVPs. The talent level is better than prior seasons, and while Clint got a lot out of his players (a manager's #1 job), those players made HIS job easier.

5) We had SUCH good production from our roster that a case could be made that WE should be leading the NL West, not Arizona. The fact that we aren't leading the division is probably a testament to Hurdle's managerial mistakes during close games that have been well-chronicled on this forum. At least, it's safe to say that Arizona's manager, Bob Melvin, hasn't cost his team as many close games as Hurdle arguably has this season.

6) Letting Todd Helton stay in the cleanup spot for the entire season is not an inspired managerial move. Rather, it smacks of Hurdle being afraid of offending Helton by moving him up to the 2 or 3-hole, or down in the order. Hurdle's legacy of stubborness (in the tradition of "Chacon as closer" all but one week of the 2004 season) continues.

All of the above is not to say that Clint has done a poor job as a manager this year......just that he hasn't done anything particularly brilliant to earn the award. The old saying that "even a broken clock is right twice a day" can be applied here. Even a weak manager can have a winning team twice a decade. For Clint, it's only once in six years. I'll give you this, though.....he deserves a bit more respect from us, and I'll try to refrain calling him "The Cooler" for the time-being. From me, that's high praise!


Addendum: I could have added as a 7th reason that Hurdle seemed to be the one who got to pick the 24th and 25th guys for his Opening Day roster, and he opted for the useless vets in Finley and Mabry over younger and more deserving options. The slow start we got off to in 2007 is partially due to his choices and usage of the bottom part of the roster, and may have indeed contributed to us missing the playoffs, given that we may fall just short. Also, teams with the league's 5th to 8th best record (which is where we are and will probably finish) usually don't have their managers winning any awards. Nor are they even considered, TIR.

[indianadrew]

some people just cant give clint hurdle any credit. when the rockies lose he gets most, if not all, of the blame. wow. i just think it is a bit unfair. IMO, at the very least, he sould be considered for manager of the year.

the way this team has been written off is kinda like writing an obituary for for a relative in the ICU. i still believe. GO ROCKIES.

[Dante Bichette]

Another big win tonight. Hawpe with the big homer this time. The Rocks are trying to fight their way into this thing, but the teams ahead of them aren't doing them any favors by winning most of their games.

As for Hurdle for manager of the year, on the surface, it sounds good, and if I wasn't a Rockies fan who had seen the majority of their games this year, I may agree. The wins, which have exceeded what anyone was predicting before the season, would seem to indicate he has done a good job. As a Rockies fan, however, I have watched the majority of their games this year and seen the numerous poor moves he has made, so I can't buy into the improved win total as evidence that he has done a good job.

[Heltonfan]

Anyway, if I had a vote, it would go to Manny Acta. That Washington team had a chance to be not just bad, but historically bad.

No, they didn't. That was just preseason hype. I had them projected to win 71 games; they're on pace for 73.

You didn't even mention perhaps his greatest contribution to the 2007 Rockies, which was his unwaivering defense of Garrett Atkins during a brutal stretch to begin the season.

That's a "contribution"? What kind of idiot would have done otherwise? Atkins was coming off a fantastic '06 season, and we didn't have any other halfway viable options at 3B. I don't think we should be awarding too much credit for doing the blatantly obvious.

I'd be inclined to give the award to Bob Melvin, because no one sticks out as particularly deserving and I think it's reasonable to give Melvin at least a little bit of the credit for Arizona's incredible record in one-run games.

At any rate, I certainly don't see anything that should make Hurdle a strong candidate. As Roxpert said, there are too many obvious negatives on his record.

But there is another major award to be discussed here. Holliday shouldn't just be considered for MVP; he should win.

[DieHardRoxFan]

Having seen or heard every game of Hurdle's glorious career, IMO he is still nothing more than average at best. Some of his bonehead decisions cost a lot of close games. If the Rockies win out and make the playoffs I'm sure he'll get votes from people who haven't seen him manage on an everyday basis. The Rockies were expected to contend by the owners, players and manager. I agree with a lot of Roxpert's points. I'm happy for the players and other Rockie fans for their success but I still can't take Hurdle.

[BigRapidsJackass]

Back to earth on Hurdle:

1. We saw the return of the Bunt Hungry Maniac tonight. 6th inning, Hawpe leads off with a single. Torrealba (who had just homered and doubled -- I know, that's predictive of nothing, but c'mon) bunts him over. Which sets the table for ... OMAR QUINTANILLA. I honestly could not believe that Hurdle, who now has a roster of approximately 75 players, would bunt a runner over to give OMAR QUINTANILLA a chance to drive him in. The result? You guessed it.

2. I don't believe I've ever lobbied for Josh Fogg to stay in a game longer, but I did tonight. Ryan Speier? Really? With a 1-run lead to protect in the 6th inning? With Fogg at only about 88 pitches? Why? I was at the game so I didn't hear any explanation. Maybe his shoulder tightened up or something. Otherwise, it's hard to make sense of this one. Seems like a Hurdle hunch. And actually Speier didn't throw poorly; he was victimized by the incredible errorless (when I counted at least 3 errors for the game) defense which suddenly had a rough night.

So no, I don't think Hurdle is anyone's manager of the year. I think he's beenkind of average as a manager, but most managers are pretty poor as game strategists so that's faint praise.

My manager of the year? As long as we understand the dreaded "intangibles" will count here, I've got to say Lou Piniella. The Cubs were self-destructing in June and somehow they landed on top of the division. He kicked ass and took names and maybe they got lucky or maybe it worked. Who cares.

As for tonight's game: brilliant. I love this meaningful games stuff even if they're just barely meaningful. Holliday? Simply the best hitter in baseball now.

[TheIncredibleRox]

Heartbreaking. SD comes up with a miracle of their own. Ugh. 4 W's in a row, no ground gained on the leaders. Rough. At least we've gained ground on Philly and LA. At the very least, the series againt SD leaves us a reasonable shot.

[BigRapidsJackass]

IR, I just saw that clip. Padres walk-off win. Improbable as it may be, a sweep of the Padres in SD is now looking like our only hope.

[Newman]

I'd vote for Melvin or Lou.

Jackass points out Clint and his bunt happy flaw, above. Good description. Didn't see the game. Bunting so Omar can drive in the run?? Would Melvin or Lou do that? No pinch hitter available even with the expanded roster?

Clint did give us "meaningful" games in September. We are still out of the playoffs, unless we go on a miracle run and sweep the Pads. How likely is that? It's better than most years, but so what? Same result. No playoff gold.

[indianadrew]

a four game sweep to take over third place. hopefully we can keep it going

[Newman]

It got a little shakey at the end, when Herges came in to relieve.

I'm putting Herges on that list of relievers that make me extremely nervous lately when they go up on the bump. Affeldt is first still. Julio too. Not thrilled by Hawkins either.

And we continue to win. Tomorrow's game should be interesting. The best pitcher in the NL vs. our rookie Morales. We need the sweep. On the road. Do you believe in miracles, Al Michaels?

[GerryInCS]

There's no way we are going to get into the playoffs. The Rox would have to win out and the next three starts feature Morales, Redman/Dessens/Joe Dirt and Francis. Only one of those starts can be considered a win (Francis), but even that's not a lock.