Graduation Rates and penalties in college sports

coffeeman · 05-07-2008, 05:20 PM

We can toss it around here.

http://www.ajc.com/gatech/content/sh...ic_Report.html

quote:
Schools already facing possible postseason bans include football teams at San Jose State, Southern and Temple, and men's basketball teams at New Mexico State, Centenary and East Carolina.
Thirty-six teams were assessed two penalties and three schools had more than one team hit twice — Alabama-Birmingham in men's basketball, football and men's golf; San Diego State in baseball and football; and San Jose State in baseball and men's basketball.

Florida International had five teams — baseball, football, men's basketball, men's outdoor track and field and women's swimming — receive one sanction each.

Tennessee and West Virginia, with three teams each on the list, were the only BCS schools with more than one team sanctioned. Each school had three teams make it — West Virginia in men's soccer, wrestling and women's rowing and Tennessee in men's basketball, men's swimming and baseball.
------------------------------------

Temple probably wasn't going to a bowl in football anyway, I'm not sure how afraid of a bowl ban they would be.

While nobody is shocked to see "ut" multiple times on the list, WV's women's rowing team??? Women's rowing?

jtur88 · 05-07-2008, 05:40 PM

The NCAA is the most neanderthal organization on earth. Al Maguire summed it up beautifally: "If a boy from Louisiana accepts a scholarship at Central Michigan, nobody can even give him an overcoat, except his mama."

LongtimeBravesFan · 05-07-2008, 05:43 PM

Well, at least the Lady Vols rowing team didn't get hit.

I remmeber when they started the rowing team there. It was all about trying to get a bunch of women's scholarships to balance out the football team to maintain gender equity. So rather than pick a sport other SEC teams compete and do vey well in (gymnastics), they choose a sport nobody cares about. They even recruited students to try out by saying no experience was necessary.

I think they shouldn't count the 85 football scholarships when computing gender equity. All it is doing is killing men's wrestling and volleyball. Soccer is pretty strong at the youth and high school levels, but the SEC doesn't have men's soccer.

pacino · 05-07-2008, 05:44 PM

Most schools see their athletes graduate at higher rates than the academic-only schools. The irrational hostility that the NCAA holds towards its athletes is rather unfortunate, because the massive amount of dollars that the athletes raise for both the schools and the NCAA is amazingly high.

Zen653 · 05-07-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Most schools see their athletes graduate at higher rates than the academic-only schools.

That's one of the advantages of tying athletics to college. It keeps at-risk students in school for a lot longer because they red shirt for a year, then miss another year with an injury, then hang around for a masters degree in an effort to become an assistant coach, etc. Four years gets stretched into five, six or seven, at which point the average athlete might be ready to become a productive member of society.

jtur88 · 05-07-2008, 05:58 PM

Any stats available on how many athletic scholarship students graduate at all, nationwide?

fellow59 · 05-07-2008, 06:23 PM

Any stats available on how many athletic scholarship students graduate at all, nationwide?

Along with how many scholarship athletes would have gone to a university at all if not given the scholarship?

TheAJx · 05-07-2008, 08:42 PM

Hasn't been a good week for San Diego State. Add this to the 75 students arrested in a drug ring the other day.

Nighthawk · 05-07-2008, 09:16 PM

http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/instAggr2007/1_0.pdf

According to this data, the grad rate for athletes in D-I is identical, if not better , than the student body at large.

yh* · 05-07-2008, 09:55 PM

The data on graduation rates, test scores, etc. is worthless. The four-year graduation rate at Georgia Tech among non-athletes is incredibly low...but graduation rates for the basketball team come out and the school gets ripped.

The fact is that, the vast majority of the time (and, yes, even at schools with great academic reputations and big time athletics), the athletes are not taking the same courses as the average student. There are several factors involved:

1. Time - College athletes are incredibly busy, and even the ones who are academically interested would struggle to keep up in difficult majors. I saw a few who were great students, but most just were not driven enough to juggle tough academics.

2. The race to the bottom - Big time athletes are not going to go to schools that force them to major in biomedical engineering. They are generally going to choose schools that offer cakewalk liberal arts degrees, often because they believe they have a pro career ahead of them.

3. NCAA Sanctions - The school can't win by cracking the whip. You have to keep athletes eligible or else you start losing scholarships, and in order to keep athletes eligible often times standards are simply lowered.

bedir than average · 05-07-2008, 10:04 PM

I would be more impressed with the graduation rate by degrees that matter

Neither Sports Management, nor Liberal Arts (the generic version) matter.

coffeeman · 05-08-2008, 07:26 AM

There are kids who need and deserve "scholarships" (full, not 2k a year) based and academics and leadership excellence more than "women's rowing" girls or whatever who can't even pass and stay eligible.

2k a year barely covers a meal ticket on campus for two semesters. Many schools give 1500 or 2000 a year for academic and leadership excellence unless the kid was a total 4.0 valedictorian with a nearly perfect ACT or SAT score - then the generosity increases. If kids who are barely qualified to even get into college can get a "scholarship" for rowing, then a 3.8 gpa, top 5% of their h.s. class with a 28 ACT should rate better than 1500 or 2k a year schollie $$.

And this is from a person who is a big sports fan.

bedir than average · 05-08-2008, 09:10 AM

yeah, I'm betting the crew teams around the nation are made up of the idiots

coffeeman · 05-08-2008, 11:58 AM

Speaking of "crews" didn't the university of TN basketball team just kick off 2 guys for failing 4th drug tests...so they went out and got THIS guy who was kicked off Oklahoma's basketball team...

Tulsa World: OU dismisses Maze from basketball team

And here is his gangsta rap video...maybe instead of "big money" his nickname should be "bad attitude" according to Oklahoma's coaching staff.

YouTube - Don Juan Ft. Boss Slim - We Kill Em

Of course ut is the school where a jock once turned THIS in for his term paper summary:

quote:
"I have learn a lot of the things about Madommon thought her videos, hearing to her music and Magizines Articiles people wrote about her. Both in positives and negivites ways. They should not be a double standard for men and women. Because if they are double videos, they could be Double standard everywhere."

source:
ESPN.com: NCAA - Tennessee: Turning cartwheels on a cliff's edge

------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile the parents of kids who made A- grades on all honors/a.p. classes in h.s. end up writing LARGE tuition checks to these schools after the paltry amounts the schools are giving in the name of "scholarships" while others struggle through remedial classes on full "scholarship."

The NCAA damn well ought to hand out sanctions to schools who admit kids - and give them a free ride - who have no business anywhere near a college campus.

End of rant. For now.

05-07-2008, 05:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
coffeeman Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 784	Graduation Rates and penalties in college sports We can toss it around here. http://www.ajc.com/gatech/content/sh...ic_Report.html quote: Schools already facing possible postseason bans include football teams at San Jose State, Southern and Temple, and men's basketball teams at New Mexico State, Centenary and East Carolina. Thirty-six teams were assessed two penalties and three schools had more than one team hit twice — Alabama-Birmingham in men's basketball, football and men's golf; San Diego State in baseball and football; and San Jose State in baseball and men's basketball. Florida International had five teams — baseball, football, men's basketball, men's outdoor track and field and women's swimming — receive one sanction each. Tennessee and West Virginia, with three teams each on the list, were the only BCS schools with more than one team sanctioned. Each school had three teams make it — West Virginia in men's soccer, wrestling and women's rowing and Tennessee in men's basketball, men's swimming and baseball. ------------------------------------ Temple probably wasn't going to a bowl in football anyway, I'm not sure how afraid of a bowl ban they would be. While nobody is shocked to see "ut" multiple times on the list, WV's women's rowing team??? Women's rowing?

05-07-2008, 05:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 6,841	The NCAA is the most neanderthal organization on earth. Al Maguire summed it up beautifally: "If a boy from Louisiana accepts a scholarship at Central Michigan, nobody can even give him an overcoat, except his mama." __________________ ------------------ RE-ELECT McCAIN

05-07-2008, 05:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
pacino Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: PA Posts: 300	Most schools see their athletes graduate at higher rates than the academic-only schools. The irrational hostility that the NCAA holds towards its athletes is rather unfortunate, because the massive amount of dollars that the athletes raise for both the schools and the NCAA is amazingly high. __________________ Huge Tiny Mistake

05-07-2008, 05:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
jtur88 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 6,841	Any stats available on how many athletic scholarship students graduate at all, nationwide? __________________ ------------------ RE-ELECT McCAIN

05-07-2008, 09:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
Nighthawk Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 2,477	http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/instAggr2007/1_0.pdf According to this data, the grad rate for athletes in D-I is identical, if not better , than the student body at large. __________________ "Whenever the word 'fair' features so prominently in legislation, the odds are that it is economically illiterate" -Rich Lowery What am I doing with your tax money? Sustaining the realm according to caprice.

05-07-2008, 05:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,651	Well, at least the Lady Vols rowing team didn't get hit. I remmeber when they started the rowing team there. It was all about trying to get a bunch of women's scholarships to balance out the football team to maintain gender equity. So rather than pick a sport other SEC teams compete and do vey well in (gymnastics), they choose a sport nobody cares about. They even recruited students to try out by saying no experience was necessary. I think they shouldn't count the 85 football scholarships when computing gender equity. All it is doing is killing men's wrestling and volleyball. Soccer is pretty strong at the youth and high school levels, but the SEC doesn't have men's soccer.

05-07-2008, 06:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
fellow59 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,794	Any stats available on how many athletic scholarship students graduate at all, nationwide? Along with how many scholarship athletes would have gone to a university at all if not given the scholarship?

05-07-2008, 08:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
TheAJx Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 831	Hasn't been a good week for San Diego State. Add this to the 75 students arrested in a drug ring the other day.

05-07-2008, 09:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
yh* Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 520	The data on graduation rates, test scores, etc. is worthless. The four-year graduation rate at Georgia Tech among non-athletes is incredibly low...but graduation rates for the basketball team come out and the school gets ripped. The fact is that, the vast majority of the time (and, yes, even at schools with great academic reputations and big time athletics), the athletes are not taking the same courses as the average student. There are several factors involved: 1. Time - College athletes are incredibly busy, and even the ones who are academically interested would struggle to keep up in difficult majors. I saw a few who were great students, but most just were not driven enough to juggle tough academics. 2. The race to the bottom - Big time athletes are not going to go to schools that force them to major in biomedical engineering. They are generally going to choose schools that offer cakewalk liberal arts degrees, often because they believe they have a pro career ahead of them. 3. NCAA Sanctions - The school can't win by cracking the whip. You have to keep athletes eligible or else you start losing scholarships, and in order to keep athletes eligible often times standards are simply lowered. __________________ the yankeehater

05-07-2008, 10:04 PM	#11 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	I would be more impressed with the graduation rate by degrees that matter Neither Sports Management, nor Liberal Arts (the generic version) matter. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

05-08-2008, 07:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
coffeeman Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 784	There are kids who need and deserve "scholarships" (full, not 2k a year) based and academics and leadership excellence more than "women's rowing" girls or whatever who can't even pass and stay eligible. 2k a year barely covers a meal ticket on campus for two semesters. Many schools give 1500 or 2000 a year for academic and leadership excellence unless the kid was a total 4.0 valedictorian with a nearly perfect ACT or SAT score - then the generosity increases. If kids who are barely qualified to even get into college can get a "scholarship" for rowing, then a 3.8 gpa, top 5% of their h.s. class with a 28 ACT should rate better than 1500 or 2k a year schollie $$. And this is from a person who is a big sports fan.

05-08-2008, 09:10 AM	#13 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	yeah, I'm betting the crew teams around the nation are made up of the idiots __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide