Conference Title week didn't help the situation - Page 2

dlb · 12-06-2007, 04:26 AM

This was a fun year for the BCS, but it did not produce a legitimate title game. It can only do that when there are two teams that are clearly better than all the others.

The only people who will recognize this year's BCS winner as a national champion are the fans of the winning school. For the rest of us, they're no better than the half-dozen or so who were denied an honest shot.

frenchman · 12-07-2007, 09:39 PM

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This was a fun year for the BCS, but it did not produce a legitimate title game. It can only do that when there are two teams that are clearly better than all the others.

...you are so wrong here. This is the year you cannot dispute the results.

You want playoffs? The season was the playoffs...with multiple teams having a shot at #1 or #2...more than any past year. All the teams had to do was win games.

All West Virginia had to do was win at home as a 27 point favorite.
All Missouri had to do was beat Oklahoma
All Kansas had to do was beat Missouri

Ohio State had to beat Michigan

Lsu had to win their last game.

Your problem, dlb, is that you dont like the system...but this year the sytem worked the best it ever has. A dozen teams were in it...all they had to do was win.

You have no argument this year...talk all you want, but you have nothing to b-itch about

frenchman · 12-08-2007, 08:40 AM

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The only people who will recognize this year's BCS winner as a national champion are the fans of the winning school. For the rest of us, they're no better than the half-dozen or so who were denied an honest shot.

...again...they all DID have an honest shot,

You are not satisfied because they team(s) you thought should be in it, lost...lost in whar was very much equivalent to a playoff system.

Think...because I am right on this one.

IF...we had the same pre-season #1 and #2 all year...then you would have a strong point.

BUT...because more teams than ever shared #1 and/or #2...this year was more fair.
In a play off system you have to win to advance to the title game. Well, that is what happened this year. Lot of teams had shots...but a lot of those teams lost games they should not have.
Thats life...thats sports...thats football

LongtimeBravesFan · 12-08-2007, 11:19 AM

Frencman's team made the title game and he loves the BCS...what a shock.

Ohio State had an advantage by not having to play a conference title game.

dlb · 12-08-2007, 11:25 AM

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You are not satisfied because they team(s) you thought should be in it, lost...lost in whar was very much equivalent to a playoff system.

The team that I want to be in it wouldn't have made it to a playoff this year. I'm completely objective on this one. The regular season cannot be considered a playoff because teams get to choose some number of their opponents. OSU had a soft schedule in which even their required games were against relatively weak opponents (IIRC, they have yet to play against a Top 20 team). That they had to beat Michigan to stay in the hunt was partly the result of their being able to pad their record against teams like Akron.

As a Buckeye fan, you should enjoy the game and, if your team wins, have fun crowing about how great they are. Just don't be surprised when most folks find it all fairly insiginificant.

frenchman · 12-08-2007, 11:44 AM

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Frencman's team made the title game and he loves the BCS...what a shock.

Ohio State had an advantage by not having to play a conference title game.

...well, they usually do...its called the Big Game...its OSU/Michigan.
Regardless, the OSU won their conference. Now I was satisfied that OSU was out of the BCS championship...I accepted it...until the other teams all choked...losing their playoff equivalent games.
OSU is in it because other teams choked...CHOKED!
LSU 5 point favorite at home...translates to 2 point favorite on a neutral field. Seems Vegas thinks a little higher of OSU than you do...and you do not know that much

Quote:

dlb:OSU had a soft schedule in which even their required games were against relatively weak opponents

...well, thats not fair...it was a tough schedule at the start if the season. Its not like they picked patsies. Michigan and Wisconsin were ranked ahead of them at the start if the year...Penn State was ranked top 20...Washington was a tough school when they scheduled them 5 yrs ago.

Last year they played Texas...#2 in the country. In fact last yr they beat two #2 teams.
This year there was some wholesale devaluation of the Bug 10 solely on OSu'sBCS championship loss to Florida and Michigan's loss to App'l State.

This yr was full of upsets. The only team that did not get a shot was Hawaii.
Tis entore yr was basically one big playoff

dlb · 12-08-2007, 11:59 AM

Okay, last year doesn't count. At the time OSU played Penn St, the Lions were ranked around 29. Michigan was ranked 21. Wisconsin was obviously overrated at the beginning of the season.

The fact is, the Big 10 was down this year while the SEC was very strong. OSU's non-con games were soft. I don't blame them for this, and I don't think they should get any credit for it, either.

frenchman · 12-08-2007, 01:04 PM

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Wisconsin was obviously overrated at the beginning of the season.

...seems everyone was

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the SEC was very strong.

...and LSU is playing in the BCS championship...so why are you complaining?

unreal654 · 12-08-2007, 01:05 PM

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Originally Posted by LongtimeBravesFan

Frencman's team made the title game and he loves the BCS...what a shock.

Ohio State had an advantage by not having to play a conference title game.

No one is FORCING these other conferences to hold title games. They are doing it to bring in considerably more money... but if you want the dough, you have to accept the negative aspects that may come with it. Want to complain to someone? Try complaining to all the conferences that hold title games. Not that they will listen, because money is more important than your personal hatred for the big 10.

LongtimeBravesFan · 12-08-2007, 01:41 PM

I have no hatred for the Big 10, other than the fact they can't count. What I hate is that their is no playoff system that gives every I-A team a chance to win the title.

frenchman · 12-08-2007, 08:15 PM

I give you an ercise...how many teams had a chance this year to be number 1 or #2

LongtimeBravesFan · 12-08-2007, 08:41 PM

So should we just crown New England champs without a playoff? They've already beaten the next two teams (Colts and Cowboys)?

frenchman · 12-08-2007, 11:18 PM

No, of course not...they will play another team in a championship game...and that team cannot lose one or two games at the end on the way there.

Look...its really pretty simple. Its not that hard...the rules are the same for everyone...nothing got switched in the middle.

If pre-season #1 was playing pre-season #2 for the BCS championship...you would have a case.

But, sice you ignored my challenge, to actually come up with the number of teams that were in it...has a legitamate shot, then you pretty much forfeit your right to whine.

Whine in other years...not this one. This year the BCS worked perfectly...fairly...evenly...correctly

LongtimeBravesFan · 12-08-2007, 11:31 PM

I'm not complaing about OSU being in the title game. I just think the concept of the BCS is stupid to begin with. Can you name another sport that picks the teams for its title game in such a fashion?

dlb · 12-09-2007, 06:35 AM

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But, sice you ignored my challenge, to actually come up with the number of teams that were in it.

When we consider that OSU lost to a team (IL) that ranked somewhere around 40th, and LSU to an even weaker team (AR), we must conclude that neither team can claim to be championship caliber. Further, when we note that four teams - OK, FL, KS and VATech - finished the season with higher Sagarin ratings than LSU, and that one of those teams - OK - is rated higher than OSU, we must question the selection of LSU as a championship contender. Finally, were we to buy your "regular season is the playoff" line of goods, we would have to object to the exclusion of the only team that made it through the regular season without a loss - HI.

So, that gives us at least seven teams that have a clear claim to championship contender status: OK, OSU, KS, FL, VATech, LSU and HI. However, according to the Sagarin ratings, HI rates out at 16. So we must add nine more teams to those who should be given a championship shot: WV, USC, MO, GA, AZState, USF, OR, Clemson, Cincinnati.

To answer your question then, this year there are at least 16 teams that have a legitimate claim to a place in the championship game. Any system that does not include, at minimum, all 16 of those teams, cannot produce a legitimate champion.

12-08-2007, 08:15 PM	#26 (permalink)
frenchman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,796	longtime I give you an ercise...how many teams had a chance this year to be number 1 or #2

12-08-2007, 11:18 PM	#28 (permalink)
frenchman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,796	think before you post No, of course not...they will play another team in a championship game...and that team cannot lose one or two games at the end on the way there. Look...its really pretty simple. Its not that hard...the rules are the same for everyone...nothing got switched in the middle. If pre-season #1 was playing pre-season #2 for the BCS championship...you would have a case. But, sice you ignored my challenge, to actually come up with the number of teams that were in it...has a legitamate shot, then you pretty much forfeit your right to whine. Whine in other years...not this one. This year the BCS worked perfectly...fairly...evenly...correctly

12-06-2007, 04:26 AM	#16 (permalink)
dlb Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,161	This was a fun year for the BCS, but it did not produce a legitimate title game. It can only do that when there are two teams that are clearly better than all the others. The only people who will recognize this year's BCS winner as a national champion are the fans of the winning school. For the rest of us, they're no better than the half-dozen or so who were denied an honest shot.

12-08-2007, 11:19 AM	#19 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,377	Frencman's team made the title game and he loves the BCS...what a shock. Ohio State had an advantage by not having to play a conference title game.

12-08-2007, 11:59 AM	#22 (permalink)
dlb Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,161	Okay, last year doesn't count. At the time OSU played Penn St, the Lions were ranked around 29. Michigan was ranked 21. Wisconsin was obviously overrated at the beginning of the season. The fact is, the Big 10 was down this year while the SEC was very strong. OSU's non-con games were soft. I don't blame them for this, and I don't think they should get any credit for it, either.

12-08-2007, 01:41 PM	#25 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,377	I have no hatred for the Big 10, other than the fact they can't count. What I hate is that their is no playoff system that gives every I-A team a chance to win the title.

12-08-2007, 08:41 PM	#27 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,377	So should we just crown New England champs without a playoff? They've already beaten the next two teams (Colts and Cowboys)?

12-08-2007, 11:31 PM	#29 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,377	I'm not complaing about OSU being in the title game. I just think the concept of the BCS is stupid to begin with. Can you name another sport that picks the teams for its title game in such a fashion?